Is the Iraqi resistance toast or

04/09/2003 11:16:11 AM · #1

is this thing going to keep dragging on?

Here are the top 10 ways you know the war is winding down:

10. Allied soldiers taking baths in Saddam's glittering presidential palace.
9. Iraqi information minister finds work as cloning spokesman for the Raelians.
8. Geraldo Rivera leaves Kuwait and resumes daytime talk show.
7. Baghdad road signs point travelers to Bush International Airport.
6. Peter Arnett says maybe the U.S. effort wasn't a failure after all.
5. Republican Guard members start lining up at unemployment office.
4. Reporters abandon Iraq to cover anti-American activity in Paris.
3. Saddam's agent contacts book publishers about memoirs.
2. Cable blows off Rumsfeld press conference for J.Lo sighting.
1. Retired generals go back to living room armchairs to bark at TV sets.

04/09/2003 12:00:19 PM · #2

Saddam Hussein's son comes home from shopping with everything in a cardboard box... His dad says, "Why have you brought the shopping home in a cardboard box, son?"

To which his son replies, "Because there's no Baghdad!"

Message edited by author 2003-04-12 15:35:22.

04/09/2003 12:30:34 PM · #3

I'm sitting here watching a huge crowd of people trying to take down the statue of Saddam in the centre of Baghdad on BBC World. It's taken them a good hour to get themselves sorted so far. Now they're trying to put a huge chain around its neck so an American armoured vehicle can pull it down. It seems so symbolic... the Iraqi people tried to pull it down themselves, then the Americans stepped in to do it, but it's harder than anyone seemed to think it would be...

And then what will go up in its place, and who will choose? And will the Iraqi people accept it?

04/09/2003 12:36:34 PM · #4

EEEK! The marines just put an American flag over the statue's head. One of the BBC commentators said "Oh no!". Don't they realise what that looks like?

04/09/2003 12:37:10 PM · #5

They took it off.

04/09/2003 12:41:12 PM · #6

Originally posted by lisae:

They took it off.

This happened about an hour ago just after my first post, BBC seems delayed. They also had an Iraq flag simply to take some pictures of it.

04/09/2003 12:41:29 PM · #7

They're putting up an Iraqi flag, and everyone is cheering.

04/09/2003 12:43:25 PM · #8

Originally posted by rj324:

Originally posted by lisae:
They took it off.

This happened about an hour ago just after my first post, BBC seems delayed. They also had an Iraq flag simply to take some pictures of it.

DAMN! I thought it was live. BBC World is being rebroadcast on a local station here. It probably is delayed.

I thought I was watching history :).

04/09/2003 12:48:00 PM · #9

Baghdad Camera Live 24/7 and NBC DC Live Coverage

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/09/2003 01:06:06 PM · #10

Originally posted by lisae:

And then what will go up in its place, and who will choose? And will the Iraqi people accept it?

Maybe, France would suggest the Statue of Liberty :-) ... Honestly, they deserve something that would symbolize the Iraq Freedom.

moondoggie

Canon EOS-20D

04/09/2003 03:13:34 PM · #11

I have refrained from posting to the forums during the many discussion about Iraq, as usually someone had already posted a message which reflected my thoughts. But I'm finally putting something out here, so it's gonna be a little long.

I have had mixed feelings about this 'liberation of Iraq' all along. But while I have never been completely in support of our actions in Iraq (nor completely opposed I might add), I can only hope that from here there will only be good to come from all this. Saddam was a thug and tyrant of epic proportions, and few would question the need for him and his regime to be removed. Seeing the liberated Iraqis dancing in the streets, and destroying the icons of the fallen regime confirms the fact that these were a desperately oppressed people, and freeing them of Saddams evil yoke is indeed a tremendous event. So now the real test begins. We've rid Iraq of it's dictator. The US, and even the rest of the world (but mostly the US) must step up to the plate and follow through with the restoration of this devastated country. Many major cities are still without water, food, and order. The removal of Saddam fixed only one of this countries many problems, albeit perhaps the biggest problem. There are still many more issues which must be addressed, and I am sure the Rebuilding of Iraq will be far more difficult than the 'Liberation of Iraq'.

My joy for the people of Iraq is mixed with sorrow. For all the years of oppression they have suffered, and for all the innocents who have been lost in this war and other senseless wars they have endured. And what pride I do feel in my country for freeing these people is severely tempered by my concern over how we will conduct ourselves in the coming months and years of rebuilding their country. America has ruined it's image in the eyes of much of the world, especially the Muslim nations. This is our best opportunity to restore some of that lost respect. We must act honorably and with compassion towards the Iraqi people. We must take full responsibility for the nation we have now liberated, but without taking complete control. We must help restore order to the country, but without taking the country away from the Iraqi people. We must help them to feed, clothe and house themselves, without making them dependant upon our continued assistance. We must teach them to fish. This is going to be an incredibly delicate balance, and the greatest challenge of this liberation effort. I hope that by the time all is said and done, I can still say that I am proud to be an American.

Whew. I really needed to get that out. I fell better already. Thanks for listening...

btw, many thanks to lisae and all the others outside the US who have shared their unique and refreshingly non-american insights.

Damitriel

Sony DSC-F717

04/09/2003 04:30:49 PM · #12

Don't get me wrong, I don't like sadam or any dictator either. But I'm afraid that for the simple man in the streets of Bagdad things won't change.

But without a tyrant like Sadam it will be very difficult to keep Iraq an single nation. Just like Afganistan there are a lot of different tribes who hate eachother because of battles they fought in the past. In the comming years there will probably be a civil war in Iraq. The same thing happened in Yugoslavia after the fall of the Sovjet union. First there was the regime for everyone to be afraid of, then when the regime was gone people had to fear their neighbours.
Even in the town(40.000 people)where I live here in Holland there are fights between Kurds and Turks. There are two refugeecamps nearby and in both of them are regular fights between people of different tribes or country's.

So the situation in most places of the world is much more complex then some of you (americans)think.

Here in Europe a lot of people are against this war, and it's the same in most of Asia. What happened on 9-11 is terrible, but it's unwise to take revenge on country's instead of terrorists. I know smart bombs are used so that only military object can be targeted, but there will always be innocent civilians that get hurt.
The war against terrorism cannot be fought or won on one big battlefield like Iraq. I think actions target against individual terrorist groups will prove more usefull.

I hope Bush is wise enough to stay away from North korea, cause they will strike back, and their big brother(China) is a sleeping giant who you don't want to wake up.

ChrisW123

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

04/09/2003 06:56:16 PM · #13

Originally posted by Damitriel:

Here in Europe a lot of people are against this war, and it's the same in most of Asia. What happened on 9-11 is terrible, but it's unwise to take revenge on country's instead of terrorists.

LOL, we aren't taking revenge on Iraq because of 9-11. How do you make this "leap"? We did it because Saddam wouldn't comply to UN RESOLUTIONS requiring him to cooperate with the weapons inspectors. Well now he WILL comply because we have driven him out (or killed him). Now we WILL find and destroy those weapons.

Are these European protestors still against the war after seeing free Iraqi people dancing in the streets, tearing down statues and posters of Saddam, recalling how their family members were torturted in various facilities, etc., or do these Europeans still have a problem with the war and Bush??

If they do it's because they hate America and/or Bush so much that they would rather have millions of Iraqi's continue to be tortured, exectuted, and oppressed, rather then give Bush and America (and the UK) some credit for having the BALLS to do what's right. Anyone who is still against the war now, in my opinion, is really disturbed and confused.

Originally posted by Damitriel:

I know smart bombs are used so that only military object can be targeted, but there will always be innocent civilians that get hurt.

So what Damitriel? Would you prefer to do nothing and let Saddam torture and kill another 1,000,000 of his people instead? This reasoning (cilivians will die) is ridiculous! They were ALREADY DIEING EACH AND EVERY DAY!!! And now they are not. Don't ya get it yet by now!?? :)

Originally posted by Damitriel:

The war against terrorism cannot be fought or won on one big battlefield like Iraq. I think actions target against individual terrorist groups will prove more usefull.

I agree, but think about it, we are finding documentation linking terrorist groups to Saddam's regiem and that's a fact. So by taking him out like we've done, we have just cut off a resource to those various terrorist orgainizations that were involved.

Originally posted by Damitriel:

I hope Bush is wise enough to stay away from North korea, cause they will strike back, and their big brother(China) is a sleeping giant who you don't want to wake up.

Damitriel, if North Korea threatins the USA or the UK like they have done in the recent past, we are not going to ROLL OVER like most European countries do when threatened, we are going to act against that threat. End of story. That little insane twerp leader of North Korea has been pretty quite lately (no more threats against us) and if he's smart he'll continue on the same path, or he's going to be next. The USA is never going to coware down to a threating country REGARDLESS of what the communists that make up the United Nations say.

Message edited by author 2003-04-09 19:00:09.

Anachronite

Sony DSC-S85

04/09/2003 11:39:40 PM · #14

I wish I had seen today's events live.. I was fortunate enough to hear the action as I drove in my truck... the description alone was enough to bring tears of joy to my eyes... I shouted and pumped my fists in celebration for both the Iraqi people and our troops... how amazing! damn! incredible! To our new friends in Iraq: Together our blood has been shed; that's the price of freedom. Together have much work to do, but for now I have one question to ask: Freedom tastes good doesn't it??!! woo hoo! congrats!

(PS: I secretly hope you find Saddam alive before we do... and if you do, I won't mind if you hang him from a tree in the city square...)

04/10/2003 12:53:06 AM · #15

It's such a huge mistake for anyone to say "Look! It worked! People who were against the war should all change their minds now!". None of us thought the coalition forces would fail to overthrow Saddam. None of us thought the Iraqi people would be sorry to see him go. And none of us wanted him to stay there!

The problem is that this has been done by a small group of countries without the UN's assistance or approval. It has so far had huge political consequences that we're not going to understand for a long time. And now we have to see whether the Iraqi people will turn on the American administration, seeing them as occupiers rather than liberators. We have to see what the Kurds will do if they're not given their own country. If they are given their own country, we have to see if the Turks and Iranians will attack it. If they don't attack it, we have to see if their own countries suffer from a Kurdish uprising...

There are so many factors involved in opposition to the war that haven't been resolved. Suspicious substances have turned out to be explosives or pesticides. The number of dead civilians is around 1000 so far, and more may die in a civil war. Neighbouring countries have to come to terms with what has happened. And we all need to see whether Bush will stop at Iraq or move on to Syria and Iran.

joshua

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/10/2003 01:01:13 AM · #16

no they should just stop trying to make predictions of what might happen out of thin air and let things play out, then criticize when it's evident that the US made a grave error. since you say it will be a long time till we know, it is not worth any of our time arguing about it

Message edited by author 2003-04-10 01:03:36.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

04/10/2003 01:16:16 AM · #17

Originally posted by achiral:

This whole war was based on "predictions of what might happen".

ChrisW123

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

04/10/2003 01:17:15 AM · #18

Originally posted by Anachronite:

...the description alone was enough to bring tears of joy to my eyes... I shouted and pumped my fists in celebration for both the Iraqi people and our troops... how amazing! damn! incredible!

Me too Anachronite, I got goose pimples when I watched the Iraqi people jumping for joy today as we pulled down another Saddam statue... They threw shoes (an Arab thing) at the statue and jumped up and down on it, and dragged the statue head through their streets!! It was great!

And then watching the Arab population in Dearborn, MI. (very large arab population in the US) cheering and waving the Iraqi AND American flags as they celebrate the free people of Iraq. It's really uplifting to me to see them so happy about what we have done!

Anachronite

Sony DSC-S85

04/10/2003 01:44:12 AM · #19

Message edited by author 2003-04-10 01:44:59.

joshua

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/10/2003 01:50:04 AM · #20

Originally posted by lisae:

Originally posted by achiral:
no they should just stop trying to make predictions of what might happen out of thin air and let things play out, then criticize when it's evident that the US made a grave error. since you say it will be a long time till we know, it is not worth any of our time arguing about it

This whole war was based on "predictions of what might happen".

well i guess this would disregard the whole UN non-compliance and breach of cease fire agreement he agreed to, but then again, we've already had that argument. why did i get back into this

Azrifel

Nikon Coolpix P340

04/10/2003 02:22:21 AM · #21

Watch out, it isn't over yet!

The statue appeared to be a body double!

:)

Anachronite

Sony DSC-S85

04/10/2003 02:43:40 AM · #22

I want to see the marines dragging off the minister of dis-information... I can hear him now as he is being drug away, "This is not happening, this is only a hallucination!!!"

and then there was the iraqi abassador to the UN today... man was he distancing himself from the regime or what? hehe "I have no relationship with saddam" .. lol

Message edited by author 2003-04-10 02:44:27.