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10/23/2021 08:46:06 AM · #26 |
Not being funny or anything, but Archival challenges seem to get double of any challenge here with participants. Maybe do it twice a month, but I think you are going to shoot yourselves in the foot here.
There are a lot of people that are just plain old and can not get around like they did before. Covid has seriously not helped. People are obviously interested and participate in Archival more so than other challenges, so if you only want to half shoot yourself in the foot, maybe have it as Members challenges instead. They have to sign up to participate in these challenge, why not try it for a months trial and see if new memberships do come in?
We all have a zillion photos when we go out and shoot and just narrowing it down to 1 is good, but there is always more shots that are just as good and we do want to show them off. I say keep it just for that reason.
I mean in seriousness, how many more people does DPC want to lose. Ease into changing it. Because this and the Team Games are one of the only thing that brings anyone to the table these days. Cus the new and improved DPC has gone splat. |
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10/23/2021 08:53:30 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Not being funny or anything, but Archival challenges seem to get double of any challenge here with participants. |
Because there's little work, or challenge involved to enter. |
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10/23/2021 09:19:12 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Not being funny or anything, but Archival challenges seem to get double of any challenge here with participants. |
Because there's little work, or challenge involved to enter. |
Not true, IMO. You still have had to take the picture.. and then you have to find it. And process it. I find challenge to all that.
And if you don't well then don't use an old image, go take a new one! |
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10/23/2021 10:01:56 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Not being funny or anything, but Archival challenges seem to get double of any challenge here with participants. |
Because there's little work, or challenge involved to enter. |
Not true, IMO. You still have had to take the picture.. and then you have to find it. And process it. I find challenge to all that.
And if you don't well then don't use an old image, go take a new one! |
Find it, process it. That's it. No going out, no thinking about the where, when, how of capturing an image within a short window. Not even close to the same experience / effort associated with the "challenge" part of this site's name. |
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10/23/2021 10:43:55 AM · #30 |
Fair enough then  glad2badad
All the people that enter the challenge are not making an 'effort', that is what you take from what I wrote or any one else that gave a different answer to what you want to hear.
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10/23/2021 10:52:24 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Not being funny or anything, but Archival challenges seem to get double of any challenge here with participants. |
Because there's little work, or challenge involved to enter. |
Not true, IMO. You still have had to take the picture.. and then you have to find it. And process it. I find challenge to all that.
And if you don't well then don't use an old image, go take a new one! |
Find it, process it. That's it. No going out, no thinking about the where, when, how of capturing an image within a short window. Not even close to the same experience / effort associated with the "challenge" part of this site's name. |
I think you are grossly underestimating "find it". In bC times I took over 20 000 photos per year and I am not that well organized that I would keyword them so "find it" can take a lot of time!! Or I might find a lot photos fitting the subject, making the selection very time consuming. For me processing is an art in itself, deciding how to process also takes time.
PS I am not against the challenges with two weeks window at all, this helped me a lot to learn in my early days here. But now I participate much less, recently mostly in Archival or Extended challenges so allowing the continuation of less than a third of challenges being Archival seems a very reasonable idea to me.
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10/23/2021 10:54:13 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Fair enough then glad2badad
All the people that enter the challenge are not making an 'effort', that is what you take from what I wrote or any one else that gave a different answer to what you want to hear. |
Not "All". And FWIW, I hear quite clearly. Thanks for the assumption however. |
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10/23/2021 11:11:37 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Fair enough then glad2badad
All the people that enter the challenge are not making an 'effort', that is what you take from what I wrote or any one else that gave a different answer to what you want to hear. |
Not "All". And FWIW, I hear quite clearly. Thanks for the assumption however. |
Well, then , don't write what you wrote and expect people to not assume that is what you said. Take your 2 sentences and tell me how that is not the correct assumption from a different side of the keyboard reading it
Because there's little work, or challenge involved to enter.
No going out, no thinking about the where, when, how of capturing an image within a short window. Not even close to the same experience / effort associated with the "challenge" part of this site's name.
Message edited by author 2021-10-23 11:12:12. |
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10/23/2021 11:14:59 AM · #34 |
Here is an idea.
Just do a Poll, like you did with the Minimal dates.
This thread has 50/50 on keep or get rid off.
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10/23/2021 12:55:48 PM · #35 |
Get rid of the Archival Challenges. That's my vote.
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10/23/2021 02:47:37 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by spydr:
Get rid of the Archival Challenges. That's my vote. |
I wonder what weight to put on it? Non member and does not participate at all in challenges.
Should the votes be weighted by participation? |
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10/24/2021 10:28:07 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by spydr:
Get rid of the Archival Challenges. That's my vote. |
I wonder what weight to put on it? Non member and does not participate at all in challenges.
Should the votes be weighted by participation? |
I’d say Margaret definitely has a point there.
And I still say, if one wants to (or is able to) go out and shoot in the current timeframe for an archival challenge, they can.
But it’s hard to do landscapes of places you won’t (or can’t) travel to currently or take portraits of people, comfortably, who may or may not be vaccinated, or walk the streets in an area with high covid rates. Why would DPC want to discourage participation by eliminating the opportunity (at least some of the time) to use an archival photograph.
It’s the same argument some use when asking for more expert editing. With one big notable difference. When it comes to voting, if the challenge is an expert edit challenge there are voters who look for that aspect. So I can enter a minimal edit in an expert edit challenge but I know it will likely not be received well. Voters can’t usually tell in an archival challenge what the time stamp is on each entry.
Therefore, I am not in favor of making all archival challenges expert edit.
If we vote, these should be two different questions (and the one about adding more expert or minimal challenges was done once already). |
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10/24/2021 11:33:30 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by spydr:
Get rid of the Archival Challenges. That's my vote. |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
I wonder what weight to put on it? Non member and does not participate at all in challenges.
Should the votes be weighted by participation? |
And less than one challenge a month entered over an 18 year span.
There's justification for just skip it 'cause it certainly isn't affecting him in the slightest.
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10/24/2021 11:42:17 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
But it’s hard to do landscapes of places you won’t (or can’t) travel to currently or take portraits of people, comfortably, who may or may not be vaccinated, or walk the streets in an area with high covid rates. Why would DPC want to discourage participation by eliminating the opportunity (at least some of the time) to use an archival photograph. |
This is a big point with me that enforces my stance about keeping the Archival discussion separate from the pandemic issue.
Vivi and I did a bucket list thing and spent Christmas 2013 in Paris. Without Archival, I will *never* get to use those images. And I have since Archival came to be.
Same goes for my trip to Honduras and a couple of trips to Mexico. I'm now 66, am on Social Security, and unless some kind of unlikely windfall occurs, I won't be traveling abroad again.
Ever.
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
It’s the same argument some use when asking for more expert editing. With one big notable difference. When it comes to voting, if the challenge is an expert edit challenge there are voters who look for that aspect. So I can enter a minimal edit in an expert edit challenge but I know it will likely not be received well. Voters can’t usually tell in an archival challenge what the time stamp is on each entry.
Therefore, I am not in favor of making all archival challenges expert edit.
If we vote, these should be two different questions (and the one about adding more expert or minimal challenges was done once already). |
I'm sure I'm more of an exception, but as I'm not generally a ribbon winner anyway, I don't much care about the Expert challenges. If I like the challenge theme, I enter.
I know I wouldn't mind seeing some Expert work done on some Archival challenges.....that should be cool, actually.
Message edited by author 2021-10-24 11:42:55.
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10/24/2021 11:52:06 AM · #40 |
| Based on this thread plus SC discussion, we definitely WILL be keeping archival challenges as a regular thing. The question now is how OFTEN we have them. We'll set up a poll with some alternatives. Soon. :-) |
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10/24/2021 12:25:41 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Based on this thread plus SC discussion, we definitely WILL be keeping archival challenges as a regular thing. The question now is how OFTEN we have them. We'll set up a poll with some alternatives. Soon. :-) |
Any chance of the votes of frequent participants count more than those who don't enter at all but have an opinion? |
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10/24/2021 12:36:24 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Based on this thread plus SC discussion, we definitely WILL be keeping archival challenges as a regular thing. The question now is how OFTEN we have them. We'll set up a poll with some alternatives. Soon. :-) |
Any chance of the votes of frequent participants count more than those who don't enter at all but have an opinion? |
Unlikely IMO. But I also suspect there will be a pretty clear-cut choice in the end. |
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10/24/2021 12:56:39 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
But it’s hard to do landscapes of places you won’t (or can’t) travel to currently or take portraits of people, comfortably, who may or may not be vaccinated, or walk the streets in an area with high covid rates. Why would DPC want to discourage participation by eliminating the opportunity (at least some of the time) to use an archival photograph. |
This is a big point with me that enforces my stance about keeping the Archival discussion separate from the pandemic issue.
Vivi and I did a bucket list thing and spent Christmas 2013 in Paris. Without Archival, I will *never* get to use those images. And I have since Archival came to be.
Same goes for my trip to Honduras and a couple of trips to Mexico. I'm now 66, am on Social Security, and unless some kind of unlikely windfall occurs, I won't be traveling abroad again.
Ever.
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
It’s the same argument some use when asking for more expert editing. With one big notable difference. When it comes to voting, if the challenge is an expert edit challenge there are voters who look for that aspect. So I can enter a minimal edit in an expert edit challenge but I know it will likely not be received well. Voters can’t usually tell in an archival challenge what the time stamp is on each entry.
Therefore, I am not in favor of making all archival challenges expert edit.
If we vote, these should be two different questions (and the one about adding more expert or minimal challenges was done once already). |
I'm sure I'm more of an exception, but as I'm not generally a ribbon winner anyway, I don't much care about the Expert challenges. If I like the challenge theme, I enter.
I know I wouldn't mind seeing some Expert work done on some Archival challenges.....that should be cool, actually. |
That's been a bit of my problem with the archival. My local landscapes can't begin to stand a chance against Paris and Yellowstone and such. So I find myself rooting through my London and Yellowstone, etc. It's fun to go back to those every once in awhile, but I really wish that some of the open challenges were not archival. That way the challenges that have a chance of more people also have a chance of being a regular two-week challenge, not a best of challenge.
Because when you think of it, the archivals are basically mini best of challenges |
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10/24/2021 01:42:42 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
That's been a bit of my problem with the archival. My local landscapes can't begin to stand a chance against Paris and Yellowstone and such. So I find myself rooting through my London and Yellowstone, etc. It's fun to go back to those every once in awhile, but I really wish that some of the open challenges were not archival. That way the challenges that have a chance of more people also have a chance of being a regular two-week challenge, not a best of challenge.
Because when you think of it, the archivals are basically mini best of challenges |
My opinion.... maybe there is an advantage to win IF the archival is a landscape topic and the photographer happens to have done a considerable amount of traveling. But I don't think archival is anything like "best of" most of the time. And it's a chance to enter. Mind you, I am not the most competitive of the bunch here. |
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10/24/2021 04:29:14 PM · #45 |
Just a quick look at participation in Archival challenges. I've been kind of seeing this over the months but haven't taken the time to document it. What I've been seeing is a fair number of former "regular" DPChallenge participants that are showing up and mostly entering only Archival challenges. Now some of you may see that as a positive (increased participation - get people back, etc.), and that is certainly a point to consider. I know it's come up in other discussions that Archival challenges are popular and we have greater number of entries and so on.
I question why it's so difficult for many Archival participants to enter "Regular" (you have to think about it and shoot in 2 weeks) challenges? Again, I say it's "easy" to grab an archived photo and toss it in for the heck of it.
I would LOVE for former residents of DPChallenge to show up and enter "Regular" challenges again. Why aren't they? Is it too hard? Is there not enough time in the day to go out and shoot a new image? Are the challenge themes inadequate?
Here's the stats I pulled after going thru a very small sample of Archival challenges.
The first column shows how many Archival challenges that were entered (up to the last 10 if they entered that many), and the second column shows how many entries made in the last 10 (for 2021). I started tracking how many challenges these same participants voted in but it takes longer and a pattern was emerging (they voted on average of about 1/2 or less of challenges entered). Additionally, there was a trend in that the majority of non-Archival challenges entered (if they did enter any) were Free Studies (basically, no theme, and again somewhat easy to get one photo in a 30 day period).
I still advocate for DPChallenge and shoot for a theme in a set time period, and would prefer NOT to become DPArchives.
Thank you for your time. |
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10/24/2021 04:56:02 PM · #46 |
I'll bet the number of participants who enter archival challenges and nothing else is much lower than those who enter archival challenges in addition to the regular challenges they can muster.
Nobody ever says anything about participants who choose to enter only extended challenges or only free studies, etc (and we know there are some of those as well).
IMO. A DPC participant should not in any way be dissuaded from entering as we have so few of them. Especially if they are participants who also vote. |
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10/24/2021 08:03:56 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I question why it's so difficult for many Archival participants to enter "Regular" (you have to think about it and shoot in 2 weeks) challenges? Again, I say it's "easy" to grab an archived photo and toss it in for the heck of it.
I would LOVE for former residents of DPChallenge to show up and enter "Regular" challenges again. Why aren't they? Is it too hard? Is there not enough time in the day to go out and shoot a new image? Are the challenge themes inadequate?
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More people enter archival challenges because they're Tuesday challenges, so non paying members can enter. As a former resident, I have no choice as far as entering a regular challenge. Sure, I can pay the 25 bucks, but why? Seriously...why? For what? To pay for a club I don't fit into anymore? This morning I took a picture of some used Tupperware glowing in the morning sun. The people who go for that really aren't here anymore. It's not a hard vs. easy thing...searching through my archives is no small undertaking. Shooting a good image doesn't have to be an all day affair. Maybe that's the bigger problem here...what qualifies as a worthy image has to show some considerable effort somehow, like an all day outing or a ridiculous amount of post processing. It's like the site is regressing, not progressing. |
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10/24/2021 08:16:58 PM · #48 |
 RKT. I’m pretty sure I’d love your Tupperware. Pay the 25 bucks to support the site. And then enter what you like. |
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10/24/2021 08:38:13 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Based on this thread plus SC discussion, we definitely WILL be keeping archival challenges as a regular thing. The question now is how OFTEN we have them. We'll set up a poll with some alternatives. Soon. :-) |
Thank you. |
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10/24/2021 09:50:26 PM · #50 |
thankyou Lydia .
i read Jeb's comment and it saddened me so much ..
you have said pretty much what i couldnt put into words ..
it is unfortunate that this subject found its way into this site where i felt we accepted all ppl no matter who they were or what they believed ..
for me personally re the archival challenges .
mostly i cant be bothered looking thru my million photos .
i changed from windows to mac during the fires here in australia .
and one of the things i lost was the ability to get a vague idea what was in a folder ..
windows was awesome that way .. i could have my date ordered photos in folders and i got a vague idea what was in the folder because one of the photos that was in it was like a thumb preview ..
on the mac i have to literally open a folder to see whats in it ..
i have been in lockdown for months .. and i dont get out much due to some pretty severe health issues ..
so you'd think archival would be really appealing .. but as i said above .. cant be bothered looking .. except occasionally .. when something comes to mind and i have a really good idea when i took the photo ..
so my two cents worth on the archival challenges .. mostly for other ppl who like them ..
why not have them every so often .. and have expert every so often .. make everyone happy ..
and 'every so often' i'll leave up to other ppl to decide how often that would be .. ;)
also .. i feel that expert editing is valid in this photographic site .. there have been some amazing images entered in the expert edit challenges .. often takes my breath away .. expert edits give ppl the ability to get really creative with their photos ...
i know some ppl dont see expert editing as photography .. especially when the final image is nothing like the photo or photos that went into creating it .
but arent we here to learn and admire and be inspired by all things pertaining to photography ..
expert edits are just another direction we can take ..
i thought i'd just put in my two cents worth . but it may have been 5 .. ;)
Message edited by author 2021-10-24 22:22:36. |
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