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11/15/2013 03:10:51 PM · #51 |
| While I appreciate your enthusiasm, Wendy, would you, had the elk turned his antlers sideways and injured you, or worse - destroyed your eyes in the process - still have felt the experience was worth it? |
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11/15/2013 03:41:09 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
While I appreciate your enthusiasm, Wendy, would you, had the elk turned his antlers sideways and injured you, or worse - destroyed your eyes in the process - still have felt the experience was worth it? |
Speaking for myself, I realize any time I interact with a wild animal, there is *no* predicting the outcome. Whether it be snakes, deer, raccoons, feral cats/dogs, bears........any time you're in their element, keeping your wits about you and not making any sudden/threatening moves is good sense. Animals' personalities differ just like ours, and there's no way to tell how they're going to respond to you. Since nobody really knows the circumstances leading to why this elk toyed with the photog, I think any indignant stance is misplaced. I've been around a lot of different kind of animals, both domestic and wild my whole life, and you really just never know unless it's your own animal........and just like another person who commits to you, nothing's etched in stone even with an animal you've been with your whole life.
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11/15/2013 03:44:51 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
We've killed off most of deer, elk and others' natural predators, and messed up the habitats such that we will continue to have to glean population to try to keep the damage down.
One animal, Richard? Seriously??? |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Jeb, it's a NATIONAL PARK. They are trying to rescue the species there. So Richard's position is not out of proportion at all. |
True that........BUT, I am still at something of a loss to understand why he's so upset. That photog got one heck of an education and I'm betting he'll think twice from now on. Where's the harm in that????
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11/15/2013 04:02:27 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
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That isn't exactly the type of animal that is scared of a lot.......the fact that he's not intimidated by something half his size with no useful antlers doesn't necessarily mean he's "desensitized"…. |
Originally posted by hahn23:
In Rocky Mountain National Park, where we have many thousands of elk (wapiti), I have never seen the behavior displayed by the spike in the video. One cannot get close or touch an elk (wapiti) here because they are wild and flee humans. |
Not to be too much of a smartass, but things are much different here in the east because there's been at least one hundred years more exposure to elk (AtenĂ¡:ti) by people, and perhaps there are subtle genetic differences due to different habitat even before the white man raped America. I know I have a lot less trouble establishing a rapport with animals than some people......my daughter is even moreso. The whole Horse Whisperer thing seems to be something of a joke, but anyone who has been around some people know that some people just have a "thing" with animals.
And just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Was this thing in Tennessee a normal occurrence? No, but maybe not so rare or necessarily a bad thing like you would have us believe. I've had friends over the years who have semi-domesticated wild animals simply through association, or saving an injured critter. I even had a "pet" skunk when I was a kid who hung around outside where I lived for a while. He would sit in my lap, eat, and respond to affection. Wasn't a house pet, and *don't* startle him, but I was fascinated. He eventually wandered off and that was that.
Originally posted by hahn23:
The national park is careful to enforce the "no feeding" and "no approach" rules. The wapiti do not associate people with food. Sometimes you can get within 50 yards of a wapiti herd, as they graze the glacial valleys. The wapiti NEVER approach humans. As I mentioned earlier, the only danger from a wapiti cow is when a human is in the territory of a newborn calf in early June. And then, the mode of "killing" action is from the sharp edges of front hooves flailing the intruder. |
Again......as far as you know.....unusual circumstances make for different behaviors.
Originally posted by hahn23:
With reference to the photographer, that idiot's role in life is to serve as a bad example, so the rest of society can understand what not to do. |
I'm guessing by your description that you've not made an error before that put you in a dicey position? I *really* don't think that experience was what the photog had anticipated.
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11/15/2013 05:13:51 PM · #55 |
I'm amused by people like yourself who read rules and magically broaden them to suit their whimsy.
A warning like "Coffee is Hot" is NOT a rule to forbid spilling coffee. It's an advisory statement that there are consequences should you spill the coffee.
The page which explains the rules about "willfully approaching" the elk and the possible sanctions for doing so also has, lower down on the page, a warning about how dangerous the can be up close. Again, it's a warning not a rule. There's a difference, I don't know why you and others don't seem to understand that, it's common sense.
Originally posted by tanguera:
@ Spork - I'm amused that you are defending the stated rules so literally. This kind of "it doesn't say" mentality is one of the reasons that we have to put absurdly obvious warnings such as "caution: contents are extremely hot and you might burn yourself" on cups of coffee. Common sense is apparently also facing extinction. |
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11/15/2013 05:17:51 PM · #56 |
| This video presents a proper reaction to wildlife aproching you in the wild. |
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11/15/2013 07:08:18 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
This video presents a proper reaction to wildlife aproching you in the wild. |
I'd post what I think is the proper method, but we have a glut of sensitive folks around here.
On that note, it's cottontail season. :) yum. |
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11/15/2013 07:37:17 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
This video presents a proper reaction to wildlife aproching you in the wild. |
This video presents a proper reaction to people aproching wildlife in the wild. |
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11/15/2013 08:42:45 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by bhuge:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
This video presents a proper reaction to wildlife aproching you in the wild. |
This video presents a proper reaction to people aproching wildlife in the wild. |
From the dulcet tones of the announcer,
to the last groin kick,
I bow my head to the
stupidity of my species.
Geez, O how I hope the whole thing was staged
and that 'wildlife' photographer was fake. |
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11/15/2013 10:04:40 PM · #60 |
| Of COURSE it's "staged" Alice! Beyond staged, it's FAKE. CGI work I assume. |
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11/15/2013 10:55:42 PM · #61 |
| ...they euthanized the elk...just saw a preview on the local news...wbir in Knoxville. |
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11/15/2013 10:56:17 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of COURSE it's "staged" Alice! Beyond staged, it's FAKE. CGI work I assume. |
Just because the bear lost doesn't mean its fake. Sheesh, you're so bias. |
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11/15/2013 11:03:18 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Of COURSE it's "staged" Alice! Beyond staged, it's FAKE. CGI work I assume. |
Staged? Obviously you have never witnessed the extensive kung fu training that all bears are required to have.
Message edited by author 2013-11-15 23:04:42. |
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11/15/2013 11:11:43 PM · #64 |
| Just on the news a moment ago......elk euthanized. It was the first elk they had to put down since bringing them back to the park. |
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11/15/2013 11:20:05 PM · #65 |
Interesting. I have to question the "could not be trained to fear humans part...".. I have little doubt that the animal could be retrained to fear humans terribly, they're not stupid ya know.
In any case, it does seem that it wasn't at all the photographer in the video who caused this, the Elk had been behaving like this for a while. The park officials even stated as much quite bluntly, that the photographer didn't do anything wrong.
Message edited by author 2013-11-15 23:24:20. |
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11/15/2013 11:24:40 PM · #66 |
| That is too bad, and for those who were critical of the photographer... "Park officials say York did not do anything wrong in the video. They say the elk approached him and he did not interact with the elk. Rangers say the elk's friendly behavior began long before he met the elk." |
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11/15/2013 11:26:46 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Interesting. I have to question the "could not be trained to fear humans part...".. I have little doubt that the animal could be retrained to fear humans terribly, they're not stupid ya know.
And, it does seem that it wasn't at all the photographer in the video who caused this, the Elk had been behaving like this for a while. The park officials even stated as much quite bluntly, that the photographer didn't do anything wrong. |
Yeah, I suspect they really meant "they refuse to retrain the elk". |
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11/15/2013 11:28:51 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by MarkB:
That is too bad, and for those who were critical of the photographer... "Park officials say York did not do anything wrong in the video. They say the elk approached him and he did not interact with the elk. Rangers say the elk's friendly behavior began long before he met the elk." |
That was friendly? |
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11/15/2013 11:31:46 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Neil:
Originally posted by MarkB:
That is too bad, and for those who were critical of the photographer... "Park officials say York did not do anything wrong in the video. They say the elk approached him and he did not interact with the elk. Rangers say the elk's friendly behavior began long before he met the elk." |
That was friendly? |
Pretty much.
Here's what a deer can to to a dog... (Elk also usually get unfriendly with their hooves.) |
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11/15/2013 11:41:07 PM · #70 |
| You know the most ironic thing? In a way we're all responsible for the fearlessness of these animals - simply because we don't regularly attack them.. |
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11/15/2013 11:50:24 PM · #71 |
From another local news station...
"Rangers say the elk kept coming back to that area because people kept feeding it. They believed the elk could become more aggressive and rangers made the decision to put it down."
There are signs all over the place telling people not to feed the animals, but what good is a sign? I mean, there also also signs around telling people not to graffiti on or deface historical park buildings...and they graffiti right on the darn sign. I swear, you want to see people acting stupid, just come to the GSMNP and you'll see plenty.
Message edited by author 2013-11-15 23:51:12. |
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11/15/2013 11:51:53 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by Cory:
You know the most ironic thing? In a way we're all responsible for the fearlessness of these animals - simply because we don't regularly attack them.. |
That is very likely true. I was reading on the efforts to reestablish the herd and initially they had large calf losses to bears. It took a while for them to learn bears are bad and how to protect they're young from them. |
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11/15/2013 11:57:28 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by Cory:
You know the most ironic thing? In a way we're all responsible for the fearlessness of these animals - simply because we don't regularly attack them.. |
Yeah we do. The problem is they never see their attackers. Maybe the solution is to ban rifles and force hunters to grow a pair? |
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11/16/2013 12:04:37 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Cory:
You know the most ironic thing? In a way we're all responsible for the fearlessness of these animals - simply because we don't regularly attack them.. |
Yeah we do. The problem is they never see their attackers. Maybe the solution is to ban rifles and force hunters to grow a pair? |
Or just give the tourists bullwhips and make a sport of the thing.
ETA: Really killing the elk isn't the idea - scaring the holy shit out of it, and providing a bit of pain for reinforcement, now that's the way to go... A few of those experiences and they'll be quite cautious about keeping their distance.
Message edited by author 2013-11-16 00:06:17. |
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11/16/2013 10:29:27 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Cory:
You know the most ironic thing? In a way we're all responsible for the fearlessness of these animals - simply because we don't regularly attack them.. |
Yeah we do. The problem is they never see their attackers. Maybe the solution is to ban rifles and force hunters to grow a pair? |
Or just give the tourists bullwhips and make a sport of the thing.
ETA: Really killing the elk isn't the idea - scaring the holy shit out of it, and providing a bit of pain for reinforcement, now that's the way to go... A few of those experiences and they'll be quite cautious about keeping their distance. |
"Training" the elk to be fearful of humans should start with the park rangers themselves. I noticed that at least one of the pictures on the website shows an elk nuzzling a white truck. A truck with emergency lights on its roof like what park rangers drive.
Of course if the elk are too fearful of humans, no one will get to see them and then, to a large part of the public, that's just the same as not having elk at all and then who's going to want to pay tax dollars for that? |
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