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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> slavery? really?
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02/23/2012 05:39:17 PM · #1
slavery at sea world

Did anyone see this? PETA was fighting in court saying sea world was committing slavery. Really?



Message edited by author 2012-02-23 17:40:28.
02/23/2012 05:54:43 PM · #2
Yeah I saw it....That is pretty stupid isn't it....Did you know that I am a slave as well. I am forced to go to work every day....I want to be free and frolicking naked in the woods. (ok maybe not)
02/23/2012 05:57:14 PM · #3
I guess it's time to grant those poor animals 'personhood' status. lol
02/23/2012 05:58:19 PM · #4
So when an animal eats another one does he go to animal prison
02/23/2012 06:01:11 PM · #5
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

I guess it's time to grant those poor animals 'personhood' status. lol


That wouldn't be a completely unreasonable position to take. How would you feel if some other species came along that considered humans to be "property" instead of entities entitled to freedom?

From the linked story:

"Both groups did voice one shared observation -- the remarkable nature of these animals. Kerr described orcas as "the most social beings on the planet. They stay with their families their entire lives. Like us, they have cultures within their own pods and communities, they have their own languages, with each pod having their own distinct dialect which gets passed on from generation to generation." But in Kerr's mind, this means that "If animals are that complex and the science demonstrates they are suffering from enslavement, then these orcas deserve to be protected from that enslavement."

Miller praised PETA attorneys for striving to protect orcas, but still found that the 13th Amendment "affords no relief."

Taking a broader look at the challenges facing animal advocacy groups, a "big barrier" is the fact that animals are considered personal property, Valparaiso Law Professor Rebecca J. Huss told HuffPost before the ruling.

Huss, who served as guardian/special master in the Michael Vick dog-fighting case, explained, "no one's established that animals are legal persons. It doesn't mean we couldn't ... it's just something that we as a society have not decided to do yet. If we can establish corporations as persons, why can't we establish whales as persons?""

02/23/2012 06:09:26 PM · #6
When animals become persons... the world is surely ending
02/23/2012 06:12:46 PM · #7
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Yeah I saw it....That is pretty stupid isn't it....Did you know that I am a slave as well. I am forced to go to work every day....I want to be free and frolicking naked in the woods. (ok maybe not)
pics or it never happened...
02/23/2012 06:13:04 PM · #8
My dog thinks that she is a people...but she still licks her butt
02/23/2012 06:14:27 PM · #9
Ha. Mine too
02/23/2012 06:15:16 PM · #10
Originally posted by cowboy221977:

My dog thinks that she is a people...but she still licks her butt
there are a few people i've met that may be closet but lickers as well...
02/23/2012 06:19:37 PM · #11
Originally posted by o2bskating:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

My dog thinks that she is a people...but she still licks her butt
there are a few people i've met that may be closet but lickers as well...


OMG That's good
02/23/2012 06:23:18 PM · #12
It's fairly obvious we have no "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" readers in this thread right now, I guess. Myself excepted, anyway... So long, and thanks for all the fish! :-)

R.
02/23/2012 06:23:24 PM · #13
This was supposed to be a SERIOUS thread... come on... No enslaving animals. That's right... No more putting your dogs on a leash, or making them eat in bowls off the floor or any of that nonsense

On a serious note... i dont understand how PETA thought they were gonna win this one

Message edited by author 2012-02-23 18:25:38.
02/23/2012 06:25:15 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It's fairly obvious we have no "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" readers in this thread right now, I guess. Myself excepted, anyway... So long, and thanks for all the fish! :-)

R.


Yeah mice are the only intellegent creatures and the dolphins thank us for all the fish
02/23/2012 06:28:34 PM · #15
Originally posted by dyridings:

This was supposed to be a SERIOUS thread... come on... No enslaving animals. That's right... No more putting your dogs on a leash, or making them eat in bowls off the floor or any of that nonsense


I'M taking it seriously. I see a world of difference between domesticating companion animals and, essentially, "enslaving" individuals of what is perhaps the only other intelligent, thinking group of species on earth. There's a HUGE body of work pointing to the intelligence and social structures of cetaceans that makes me feel really strange when I see them performing like circus animals for our amusement.

I'm not expressing myself well here. I get worked up on this topic.

R.
02/23/2012 06:38:15 PM · #16
Not all zoos and aquariums are created equally. All I can safely say is.... please patronize accredited zoos and aquariums.
02/23/2012 06:38:52 PM · #17
[quote=Bear_Music] It's fairly obvious we have no "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" readers in this thread right now, I guess. Myself excepted, anyway... So long, and thanks for all the fish! :-)

R. [/quote

I happen to have "The Ultimate HItchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy" right next to my keyboard and vividly recall the days that I would read excerpts of the book to Beetle... complete with my version of differing voices.

...and the ultimate question is?s

Thanks for bringing back some very fond memories my friend.

Ray
02/23/2012 07:26:49 PM · #18
It is a serious subject; people are animals too, they just do not lick their own butts. That's what bosses are for.
02/23/2012 07:54:37 PM · #19
42
02/24/2012 03:40:14 PM · #20
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by dyridings:

This was supposed to be a SERIOUS thread... come on... No enslaving animals. That's right... No more putting your dogs on a leash, or making them eat in bowls off the floor or any of that nonsense


I'M taking it seriously. I see a world of difference between domesticating companion animals and, essentially, "enslaving" individuals of what is perhaps the only other intelligent, thinking group of species on earth. There's a HUGE body of work pointing to the intelligence and social structures of cetaceans that makes me feel really strange when I see them performing like circus animals for our amusement.

I'm not expressing myself well here. I get worked up on this topic.

R.


I guess that's where we differ. I view an animal as an animal, whether it be wild, domesticated, in captivity, or doing tricks.

I do agree that there are many different creatures that are highly intelligent, and my daughter wants to work with animals, she is particularly passionate about sharks and dolphins.

However, I don't see Sea World doing anything wrong, certainly not slavery. These animals, many of them, were brought in somewhere because they were hurt or needed some type of help. Placing them back in the wild would likely kill them, would you agree?

I do see a problem with things such as dog fights, or if there was animal cruelty involved. But many places wouldn't be able to help the animals if it wasn't for the revenue generated from things like Sea World (not sure about their profit policy completely).
02/24/2012 03:55:44 PM · #21
Originally posted by dyridings:

I guess that's where we differ. I view an animal as an animal, whether it be wild, domesticated, in captivity, or doing tricks.


Let me be very clear on this: I was at one time (when I lived in San Diego, where I grew up) a member of the Zoological Society. I have absolutely nothing against zoos and aquariums, and they do wonderful, useful work at so many levels I couldn't begin to list them. But that isn't the issue I'm seeing here...

As far as I'm concerned, Cetaceans, at least some of them, are intelligent beings that belong in a different category altogether, one they loosely share with humans. I can't see a Humpback Whale or an Orca as "just another animal", and I think it's scandalous that we still allow the hunting of the former and the "enslavement" of the latter, in places like Sea World. I don't think there's any excuse for it.

And yes, I'm aware that most nations have signed on to the no-whaling program. But they are still hunted, in an organized manner by the Japanese (for example) and by subsistence hunters in the Arctic: and I think it's terrible. We know enough about them now to know that they are intelligent, gregarious beings who communicate with each other very effectively. I think if the final balance sheet of good vs evil were ever drawn up, humanity's treatment of the cetaceans will be written as perhaps the most appalling policy of humankind.

R.

Message edited by author 2012-02-24 16:14:29.
02/24/2012 04:14:09 PM · #22
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I think if the final balance sheet of good vs evil were ever drawn yup, humanity's treatment of the cetaceans will be written as perhaps the most appalling policy of humankind.

R.


It'll be a close contest with humanity's treatment of fellow humans.
02/24/2012 04:14:22 PM · #23
As the good doctor Dennis Leary once said, "we only want to save the cute animals".
02/24/2012 04:22:49 PM · #24
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by dyridings:

I guess that's where we differ. I view an animal as an animal, whether it be wild, domesticated, in captivity, or doing tricks.


Let me be very clear on this: I was at one time (when I lived in San Diego, where I grew up) a member of the Zoological Society. I have absolutely nothing against zoos and aquariums, and they do wonderful, useful work at so many levels I couldn't begin to list them. But that isn't the issue I'm seeing here...

As far as I'm concerned, Cetaceans, at least some of them, are intelligent beings that belong in a different category altogether, one they loosely share with humans. I can't see a Humpback Whale or an Orca as "just another animal", and I think it's scandalous that we still allow the hunting of the former and the "enslavement" of the latter, in places like Sea World. I don't think there's any excuse for it.

And yes, I'm aware that most nations have signed on to the no-whaling program. But they are still hunted, in an organized manner by the Japanese (for example) and by subsistence hunters in the Arctic: and I think it's terrible. We know enough about them now to know that they are intelligent, gregarious beings who communicate with each other very effectively. I think if the final balance sheet of good vs evil were ever drawn up, humanity's treatment of the cetaceans will be written as perhaps the most appalling policy of humankind.

R.


I appreciate your input, and I also think there are places that do great work. But I also find them still to be animals. I suppose unless I see something that seriously persuades me in another direction, that will continue to be my view. We can agree to disagree on the subject.

As for the "cute animals" comment... that's very much true, sadly. Take the humane societies... people choose the "cute" dogs or cats, as opposed to the less appealing ones.
02/24/2012 05:17:37 PM · #25
I'm trying to figure how animals so smart can end up in nets we leave out for tuna.

Message edited by author 2012-02-24 17:17:57.
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