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11/10/2011 01:39:49 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Mike..."this was an isolated incident and sandusky never did it again"...so a single rape is cool? Just be a good lad, and don't do it again is the message you are sending. |
I don't think this is an accurate statement. Well, maybe not on school property. ....it would be a first with pedophiles.
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11/10/2011 01:41:20 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by Maverick:
the firing of Paterno without fact or even discussion of his role - is sickening.
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Not really. He, self-admittedly, protected a pedophile by not "doing more". He is a sick human being, as are the other individuals involved in the cover up.
Mike..."this was an isolated incident and sandusky never did it again"...so a single rape is cool? Just be a good lad, and don't do it again is the message you are sending. |
isn't that what we tell the pedophiles and molesters who have been "rehabilitated" by the state? |
yep |
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11/10/2011 01:42:10 PM · #28 |
| Frankly, even if Paterno knew nothing, it's still good to fire him. Bishops and coaches need to be accountable for what goes on under their watch. |
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11/10/2011 01:56:49 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
i feel sorry for two reasons, one he takings the brunt of the blame for this, even though he one in a long line of enablers, and two, we dont know anything. we dont know what he knows or what he did or didn't do, what circumstances lead to his decisions, nothing.
lets say we speculate that he knew or heard about something in '98 and at that point told sandusky "im not going to report you, but you aren't going to be the head coach of penn state and you have to resign". and if you dont straighten up I go to the police.
these guys were tight at that point, and honestly how do you think you'd react in this situation if this happened to one of your life long friends? you can say all you want about what you would have done, but unless it happened to you, you have no idea how'd you react, if you say you do you are lying to yourself.
people are saying that McQueary should have gone to the police, yep that sounds right, but you realize that as a grad assistant, his future coaching career is done if he brings a scandal like this to penn state, he has no idea what to do so he calls his dad and they decide to at least report it to his superiors. now is he off the off hook? was he selfish? in hindsight probably, would you give up your future based on something you saw? how does he know he'd even be able to convince anyone, after all its his word against the mighty Penn State.
for all anyone involved knows this was an isolated incident and sandusky never did it again. we all know now that's not true, but we also dont know what they all know.
if they tried to police it in house how is that any different than when we let convicted child molesters out of jail and back into public only to watch t happens again.
just to be clear im not condoning anything these guys did, i think they all made an error in judgement and they deserve whats coming to them, Penn state needs to clean house and move on from this. im just playing devil's advocate that this inst that cut and dry of a situation. |
In Paterno's leadership role, his duty was to make sure it was reported and followed up, with an incident as heinous as what was reported to him anything else is inexcusable. |
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11/10/2011 02:13:02 PM · #30 |
I couldn't read it all but being a believer in the death penalty I feel like this man fits the content of a person who deserves it.
Wow.
I am not a father so I can't say that I know how it feels for other fathers (or mothers for that matter) but I can imagine that is rather traumatizing to hear of such things.
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11/10/2011 02:54:37 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
...these guys were tight at that point, and honestly how do you think you'd react in this situation if this happened to one of your life long friends? you can say all you want about what you would have done, but unless it happened to you, you have no idea how'd you react, if you say you do you are lying to yourself. |
you are INCORRECT - rest assured that I know exactly how I would react, without exception. No matter if it was a "good friend" or not. In this situation I would not even hesitate to report a family member that did this. This is of the nature that is, for lack of a better term, a Mortal Sin.
Originally posted by mike_311:
...would you give up your future based on something you saw? how does he know he'd even be able to convince anyone, after all its his word against the mighty Penn State... |
Absolutely I would take that risk. anyone not willing to risk a job to prevent something like this has corrupt and perverted judgement. I would die trying to convince everyone, before I would make the choice of living a lifetime knowing that I did nothing.
Originally posted by mike_311:
... if they tried to police it in house how is that any different than when we let convicted child molesters out of jail and back into public only to watch t happens again. |
seriously? how is it different? They are an academic institution - they have no business what so ever trying to dispense their own judiciary "in house policing" . Even if the current judiciary system for offenses of this nature is flawed, a person or institution still cannot impart their own brand of justice without then being criminal negligent themselves. |
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11/10/2011 03:21:12 PM · #32 |
| I heard they just arrested all of the kids who witnessed -- but did nothing to prevent -- the toppling of the WTAJ-TV news truck at Penn State. |
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11/10/2011 03:29:39 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I heard they just arrested all of the kids who witnessed -- but did nothing to prevent -- the toppling of the WTAJ-TV news truck at Penn State. |
comment deleted.
Message edited by author 2011-11-10 15:31:06. |
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11/10/2011 03:34:39 PM · #34 |
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11/10/2011 03:38:44 PM · #35 |
and if this is true, i take back my devil advocate stuff.
this is just sick and all the people involved or aware need to be put down like the animals they are.
//www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html |
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11/10/2011 03:39:15 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I heard they just arrested all of the kids who witnessed -- but did nothing to prevent -- the toppling of the WTAJ-TV news truck at Penn State. |
Equating property damage to molesting a child...really? |
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11/10/2011 03:45:41 PM · #37 |
I just have mixed feelings about the whole thing, frankly. And I do not mean to at all diminish what Sandusky did -- he should be tarred and feathered, dragged through the streets, etc. I don't profess to know exactly what JoePa may have known, or may have done about it. But if he really did go to the appropriate people with his concerns about Sandusky, I don't know that he deserves to have a 60+ year reputation ruined -- not just "tarnished" -- by this.
If it has been proven that Paterno purposely withheld information, and maybe he did, then that's a different story.
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I heard they just arrested all of the kids who witnessed -- but did nothing to prevent -- the toppling of the WTAJ-TV news truck at Penn State. |
Equating property damage to molesting a child...really? |
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11/10/2011 03:56:19 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I just have mixed feelings about the whole thing, frankly. And I do not mean to at all diminish what Sandusky did -- he should be tarred and feathered, dragged through the streets, etc. I don't profess to know exactly what JoePa may have known, or may have done about it. But if he really did go to the appropriate people with his concerns about Sandusky, I don't know that he deserves to have a 60+ year reputation ruined -- not just "tarnished" -- by this.
If it has been proven that Paterno purposely withheld information, and maybe he did, then that's a different story.
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I heard they just arrested all of the kids who witnessed -- but did nothing to prevent -- the toppling of the WTAJ-TV news truck at Penn State. |
Equating property damage to molesting a child...really? |
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after the whole DA going missing and the pimping out of boys accusation. it is possible that sandusky threatened paterno to keep his mouth shut. |
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11/10/2011 04:10:29 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
after the whole DA going missing and the pimping out of boys accusation. it is possible that sandusky threatened paterno to keep his mouth shut. |
The thing i dont get about this whole thing is why? why the coverup? Yeah, the university looks bad for a minute, but really all the blame get pushed on Sandusky and in a short time no one would even remember the incident. They had way more to lose, as we are seeing now, by covering it up, unless of course...
if there is one thing history has proven is the coverup is always worse then the crime.
kind of makes you wonder really why so many kept quiet.
Message edited by author 2011-11-10 16:11:11. |
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11/10/2011 04:19:51 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by o2bskating:
after the whole DA going missing and the pimping out of boys accusation. it is possible that sandusky threatened paterno to keep his mouth shut. |
The thing i dont get about this whole thing is why? why the coverup? Yeah, the university looks bad for a minute, but really all the blame get pushed on Sandusky and in a short time no one would even remember the incident. They had way more to lose, as we are seeing now, by covering it up, unless of course...
if there is one thing history has proven is the coverup is always worse then the crime.
kind of makes you wonder really why so many kept quiet. |
maybe he had some good dirt on the university or something about the team that would be bad if it got out. that's possible but i can't imagine any dirt sandusky could have that would even be close to the stuff he was doing. |
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11/10/2011 04:21:05 PM · #41 |
So let's say YOU have an employee who was accused of similar crimes. You knew nothing about it, had nothing to do with it, never covered it up. And you would be fine being fired and having your life destroyed with virtually no hope of ever getting a decent job again? All because it happened "under your watch?"
Originally posted by posthumous:
Frankly, even if Paterno knew nothing, it's still good to fire him. Bishops and coaches need to be accountable for what goes on under their watch. |
Message edited by author 2011-11-10 16:29:28. |
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11/10/2011 04:30:19 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
maybe he had some good dirt on the university or something about the team that would be bad if it got out. that's possible but i can't imagine any dirt sandusky could have that would even be close to the stuff he was doing. |
I'm looking forward to hearing what McQueary has to say, he hasn't been fired yet for some reason and he ins't talking becuase of the grad jury investigation.
its really going to be interesting to hear what he has to say, hell, at this point, what anyone of them have to say.
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11/10/2011 04:35:05 PM · #43 |
| My problem with Paterno in this case is that he did the absolute minimum - "I informed my superiors". If there's an instance to to above and beyond, this is one of them. Call the police, have him removed from campus, make sure that this predator is not around ANY students or children, etc. Passing it off to others is not leadership. It may not be criminal, but it is very, very, very weak. |
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11/10/2011 04:52:55 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
So let's say YOU have an employee who was accused of similar crimes. You knew nothing about it, had nothing to do with it, never covered it up. And you would be fine being fired and having your life destroyed with virtually no hope of ever getting a decent job again? All because it happened "under your watch?"
Originally posted by posthumous:
Frankly, even if Paterno knew nothing, it's still good to fire him. Bishops and coaches need to be accountable for what goes on under their watch. |
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If they were using work facilities and resources for their crimes and went a long time without being caught, yes. Fire me. |
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11/10/2011 05:17:04 PM · #45 |
The way I look at it is that as a the leader of the football program, he had a duty beyond just notifying the administration, he had the duty to make sure that it was being thoroughly investigated. I didn't see any indication that was the case and even he admitted that he "should have done more".
If a junior employee comes to the boss and says he saw what appeared to be a senior employee raping a child, that's not something that the boss just passes on to the higher ups and then goes about his work.
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I just have mixed feelings about the whole thing, frankly. And I do not mean to at all diminish what Sandusky did -- he should be tarred and feathered, dragged through the streets, etc. I don't profess to know exactly what JoePa may have known, or may have done about it. But if he really did go to the appropriate people with his concerns about Sandusky, I don't know that he deserves to have a 60+ year reputation ruined -- not just "tarnished" -- by this.
If it has been proven that Paterno purposely withheld information, and maybe he did, then that's a different story.
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by alanfreed:
I heard they just arrested all of the kids who witnessed -- but did nothing to prevent -- the toppling of the WTAJ-TV news truck at Penn State. |
Equating property damage to molesting a child...really? |
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11/10/2011 05:18:47 PM · #46 |
But Joe did know or at least had a serious reason to suspect something.
Originally posted by alanfreed:
So let's say YOU have an employee who was accused of similar crimes. You knew nothing about it, had nothing to do with it, never covered it up. And you would be fine being fired and having your life destroyed with virtually no hope of ever getting a decent job again? All because it happened "under your watch?"
Originally posted by posthumous:
Frankly, even if Paterno knew nothing, it's still good to fire him. Bishops and coaches need to be accountable for what goes on under their watch. |
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11/10/2011 06:42:08 PM · #47 |
Pretty sure we can all agree that the way he handled it was morally wrong. Simple enough, right?
I vote death penalty for Sandusky... Just me though. |
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11/10/2011 07:02:51 PM · #48 |
| i can think of much better punishments than that death is too easy |
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11/10/2011 07:37:28 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by o2bskating:
i can think of much better punishments than that death is too easy |
Death is the easy way out. Just send him to jail.. Karma can be a pain in the ass.. |
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11/10/2011 07:53:19 PM · #50 |
| don't get me wrong i'm for the death penalty but from what i hear what they do to ppl like him in jail is far worse than dying!! |
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