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07/20/2009 04:49:58 AM · #76 |
not to denigrate elaborate multi-light fashion/advertising techniques, but...
just went to a great exhibit of Richard Avedon's portraits
Portraits of Power,
and from the eye reflections in his subjects it is clear that most of his famous portraits are shot with a single umbrella and sometimes a reflector against a simple white background... and yet his portraits are so much more interesting and alive than anything I've seen browsing OP portfolio... |
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07/20/2009 04:52:34 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by Tez:
maybe it's what people do with the umbrellas that's boring and leaving something to be desired?
A lot of the shots on Strobist are with umbrellas and I think they look cool. Surely it depends on the application and the context you are shooting in that defines somethings use? If you're doing fashion like Ben is then umbrellas might be on the top of his list for go-to equipment but they are useful in that they are portable, quick to set up and their predictability is not necessarily a bad thing- for press photogs it means you can think of the shoot ahead and not waste anyone's time getting the shot done so everyone can get on with their lives. Ergo you get the shots quicker, the paper gets the shot quicker
I read in one of his posts that he doesn't like them because they're predictable? Does that mean you go to shoots with a lighting system you can't predict, then screw about trying to make it predictable? That was a very weak argument in my book.
I appreciate you taking the time to share your views, but you came across sounding like an egotistical prick, which probably explains the backlash. |
I guess I have been living in Paris, France too long and didn't even notice my arrogance...Yikes, better get back to Toronto for a few months for a reality check..;-)
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07/20/2009 06:53:06 AM · #78 |
| i didn't even check your profile to see where you lived/came from but I felt you were Parisien. You're not from Rambouillet are you by any chance? |
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07/20/2009 06:58:07 AM · #79 |
FINALLY....at least some photos worthy of discussion got posted. This make this whole topic a lot less worthless.....
Now I can take some time and analyze these against Ben's....and maybe learn something...
Originally posted by Mephisto:
still bored? i think what matters in any lighting situation is how you use the available light to cooperate with the "artificial" lighting, no freakin matter if that's a softbox, umbrella, snoot or whatever.
i do want to get my hands on a set of beauty dishes for my elinchrome strobe some day though...;-) |
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07/20/2009 07:07:47 AM · #80 |
Originally posted by Tez:
i didn't even check your profile to see where you lived/came from but I felt you were Parisien. You're not from Rambouillet are you by any chance? |
No. I am born in Toronto, Canada. Anglo Canadian. Didn't speak a word of French and learned by living here.
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07/20/2009 07:37:58 AM · #81 |
problem is - Toronto is no better
try a place with less pretension'ness ... |
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07/20/2009 08:54:29 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by ralph:
problem is - Toronto is no better
try a place with less pretension'ness ... |
I think you meant to say pretentiousness? None the less, I had no choice over where I was born. That was fate.
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07/20/2009 03:17:38 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by robs:
Okay, I know it's POOR form to reply to your own question and try and change the topic back to something on topic but.... I am interested in anyone's comment on the differences between a large shoot-thru brolly and a panel covered with cloth (scrim?).... Anyone...
Originally posted by robs:
Just a question (serious, I am trying to understand this better)... I see your picture has a largish panel... how would you describe the difference in light from a large shoot-thru brolly to a panel? I would think they are similar... although the panel would spread less light I am guessing.... |
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Shoot throughs give you more contrast and has a less rounded affect. It is similar to an Opalite if the light source is close to the umbrella's center.
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07/28/2009 08:46:45 PM · #84 |
OK, Surprise ME, too...
by telling us what you have found that is better, than um, um-brellas and soft boxes.
A little more detail would explain Why and What you have found is BETTER.
All I am asking is... WHY is WHAT BETTER. ("And give peace a chance.")
Are those opalights "Continous Lighting"? So you seem to use a "Mixed Drink" of hot Halogen bulbs and strobes in hyperbolic reflectors like Profoto sells? w/grids and fiters.
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07/28/2009 09:39:35 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by benjikan:
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Benji... question for you.
I fully admit that i am terrible at portrait, mainly because i have no lighting equipment besides my flash. I was looking into starting out with some speedlights and stands with umbrella, or softboxes. After reading your original post, I am confused as to what to get to start with.
What would you recommend to the beginner? If I am starting out, and want to work my way toward the type of quality you produce, what should I start with. |
May I suggest two flash modules i.e. Multiblitz, Speedlights, Balcar or what ever. Get different sized bowls 7", 9", 12" a larger diffuser like an Opalite some honeycomb grids. Some white calque (white plastic tracing architectural paper) to soften the lights on the bowls. That is if you want to soften the lights. A few snoots and a couple of barn doors. If you can afford a third strobe module, get one. That way you can do a symmetrical back drop light and still have one for the foreground. You could purchase a small shoot through reflector as well. Some black backdrop paper to build scrims if needed or desired for your outcome and some clothing line clips, gaffers tape, scissors and razor cutter.
Now have a ball.
PS...I wrote a series here on a very cheap set up to start experimenting with called "Continuous vs Flash Lighting and everything in Between" you might consider reading. There are 7 parts in the first series. |
I have to disagree. The way to learn lighting isn't to go out and buy 3. Buy one and become an expert with it. When you start pushing the boundaries of using one light, get another. And so it continues. There's no point having a key, a fill, a background light, and a hair light when you can't even figure out how to use ONE correctly.
To  VitaminB, I would suggest a more modest approach. Zack Arias' One Light DVD, for starters. David Hobby's Strobist DVD is excellent as well.
Message edited by author 2009-07-28 21:42:07. |
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07/28/2009 10:03:45 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by geoffb:
Originally posted by benjikan:
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Benji... question for you.
I fully admit that i am terrible at portrait, mainly because i have no lighting equipment besides my flash. I was looking into starting out with some speedlights and stands with umbrella, or softboxes. After reading your original post, I am confused as to what to get to start with.
What would you recommend to the beginner? If I am starting out, and want to work my way toward the type of quality you produce, what should I start with. |
May I suggest two flash modules i.e. Multiblitz, Speedlights, Balcar or what ever. Get different sized bowls 7", 9", 12" a larger diffuser like an Opalite some honeycomb grids. Some white calque (white plastic tracing architectural paper) to soften the lights on the bowls. That is if you want to soften the lights. A few snoots and a couple of barn doors. If you can afford a third strobe module, get one. That way you can do a symmetrical back drop light and still have one for the foreground. You could purchase a small shoot through reflector as well. Some black backdrop paper to build scrims if needed or desired for your outcome and some clothing line clips, gaffers tape, scissors and razor cutter.
Now have a ball.
PS...I wrote a series here on a very cheap set up to start experimenting with called "Continuous vs Flash Lighting and everything in Between" you might consider reading. There are 7 parts in the first series. |
I have to disagree. The way to learn lighting isn't to go out and buy 3. Buy one and become an expert with it. When you start pushing the boundaries of using one light, get another. And so it continues. There's no point having a key, a fill, a background light, and a hair light when you can't even figure out how to use ONE correctly.
To VitaminB, I would suggest a more modest approach. Zack Arias' One Light DVD, for starters. David Hobby's Strobist DVD is excellent as well. |
Actually I'd recommend Light, Science, Magic for some reading. What a great book.
Matt |
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07/28/2009 10:16:31 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by geoffb:
Originally posted by benjikan:
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Benji... question for you.
I fully admit that i am terrible at portrait, mainly because i have no lighting equipment besides my flash. I was looking into starting out with some speedlights and stands with umbrella, or softboxes. After reading your original post, I am confused as to what to get to start with.
What would you recommend to the beginner? If I am starting out, and want to work my way toward the type of quality you produce, what should I start with. |
May I suggest two flash modules i.e. Multiblitz, Speedlights, Balcar or what ever. Get different sized bowls 7", 9", 12" a larger diffuser like an Opalite some honeycomb grids. Some white calque (white plastic tracing architectural paper) to soften the lights on the bowls. That is if you want to soften the lights. A few snoots and a couple of barn doors. If you can afford a third strobe module, get one. That way you can do a symmetrical back drop light and still have one for the foreground. You could purchase a small shoot through reflector as well. Some black backdrop paper to build scrims if needed or desired for your outcome and some clothing line clips, gaffers tape, scissors and razor cutter.
Now have a ball.
PS...I wrote a series here on a very cheap set up to start experimenting with called "Continuous vs Flash Lighting and everything in Between" you might consider reading. There are 7 parts in the first series. |
I have to disagree. The way to learn lighting isn't to go out and buy 3. Buy one and become an expert with it. When you start pushing the boundaries of using one light, get another. And so it continues. There's no point having a key, a fill, a background light, and a hair light when you can't even figure out how to use ONE correctly.
To VitaminB, I would suggest a more modest approach. Zack Arias' One Light DVD, for starters. David Hobby's Strobist DVD is excellent as well. |
Actually I'd recommend Light, Science, Magic for some reading. What a great book.
Matt |
Of course! It's been so long since I read it that I forgot all about it. But I'll be looking for it tonight to read again (thanks!). |
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07/28/2009 10:36:46 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Actually I'd recommend Light, Science, Magic for some reading. What a great book.
Matt |
Funny you should mention that. I ordered it on Saturday night, and I should arrive by weeks end. I liked what I had heard about it, so that will be my starting point. |
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07/28/2009 11:05:22 PM · #89 |
People get offended so easily around here ! It's like dpchallenge invented the umbrella or something.. I think we should try and get passed what we think about Benjamin and pick his brain instead ! He proved himself I think ! We are here to learn and share ,not chase people out of the village with torches !!
Anyways .. my 2 cents |
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07/29/2009 02:11:09 AM · #90 |
With exception of This guy Art Roflmao. He is here to chase people with his torch and then burn the village afterwards.
Originally posted by b0gdan:
We are here to learn and share ,not chase people out of the village with torches !!
Anyways .. my 2 cents |
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07/29/2009 05:24:53 AM · #91 |
I wrote a series for how one might reconsider how they approach lighting. In terms of costs of material, it is about as close to free as one might get, so it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. Once you have experimented a bit, then you can go out and purchase some of the real deal. However some of the stuff I recommended is not even manufactured. You are still going to have to construct it yourself.
Just consider that an Umbrella is also a light modifier and most use it as is but you might considered a semi circular black cardboard scrim for your umbrella. Measure the circumference of the umbrella and cut a half semi circle template and either wedge it or tape it to the umbrella. It's fun to rotate the umbrella to observe the different effects of how the light hits the primary intended object. This works really well when lighting a subject outdoors and you don't want to light the ground. Very nice effect when very cloudy outdoors and want your subject to look like sunlight through clouds during a thunder shower.
Ben
//www.benjaminkanarekblog.com/?p=464
Message edited by author 2009-07-29 05:28:42.
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07/29/2009 05:32:08 AM · #92 |
Originally posted by justamistere:
OK, Surprise ME, too...
by telling us what you have found that is better, than um, um-brellas and soft boxes.
A little more detail would explain Why and What you have found is BETTER.
All I am asking is... WHY is WHAT BETTER. ("And give peace a chance.")
Are those opalights "Continous Lighting"? So you seem to use a "Mixed Drink" of hot Halogen bulbs and strobes in hyperbolic reflectors like Profoto sells? w/grids and fiters. |
Opalite's are large bowl reflectors around 48cm / 18.5 inches in diameter. What is nice is that you can add several modifiers to it, including honey comb grids (Grid Spots), removable deflector, barn doors, scrims or your own customized modifiers. You can get away with a standard bowl as well if you cannot afford it. You'll just have to be a bit more creative about how you want to modify the light.
//www.balcar.fr/PHOTO/opalite.html
Message edited by author 2009-07-29 05:36:52.
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07/29/2009 09:04:32 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by benjikan:
Originally posted by justamistere:
OK, Surprise ME, too...
by telling us what you have found that is better, than um, um-brellas and soft boxes.
A little more detail would explain Why and What you have found is BETTER.
All I am asking is... WHY is WHAT BETTER. ("And give peace a chance.")
Are those opalights "Continous Lighting"? So you seem to use a "Mixed Drink" of hot Halogen bulbs and strobes in hyperbolic reflectors like Profoto sells? w/grids and fiters. |
Opalite's are large bowl reflectors around 48cm / 18.5 inches in diameter. What is nice is that you can add several modifiers to it, including honey comb grids (Grid Spots), removable deflector, barn doors, scrims or your own customized modifiers. You can get away with a standard bowl as well if you cannot afford it. You'll just have to be a bit more creative about how you want to modify the light.
//www.balcar.fr/PHOTO/opalite.html |
You still haven't answered me if you use the opalites with "Continous Lighting" or strobes?
I don't know how to read that foreign language website you had a link for them.
[EDITED:] Nevermind, the link above is in English this time, thanks.
Message edited by author 2009-07-29 21:05:58. |
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07/29/2009 11:26:53 PM · #94 |
Ok, I'll bite. I am going to post 3 images from a recent shoot up here that were shot with umbrellas. Maybe I am wrong but I don't find them to be the most boring and uninspiring images ever made. Please by all means give me some critique on these DPC, lets hear it!
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07/31/2009 06:51:20 AM · #95 |
I won't critique your work, as that is what I will not do. However, since you posted these images, I suspect that you are pleased with them and if you are, that is what really matters. Right? The whole idea behind any mode of expression, is that you choose your tools for the final image you wish to acquire. You do not need to defend these images as such"...I don't find them to be the most boring and uninspiring images ever made." I certainly hope you don't think so, unless that was the objective of your exercise.
Look, I will say this again, in many cases, I find Umbrella lighting unappealing to my taste, no more no less. It is only one persons opinion.
Message edited by author 2009-07-31 06:53:42.
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08/06/2009 01:54:13 PM · #96 |
Is it too late to play? I completely missed this thread until you posted again.
Almost a year ago I dumped a bunch of Alien Bee studio lights and decided all I needed was a 580ex and a couple of umbrellas. I figured there was no use in adding more lights when I couldn't be affective with some of the more fundamental tools. As I look at some of my work since then, I'm still convinced that it's my own skill and creativity that are limiting me rather than the fact that I'm using an umbrella.
      
Off to the vending machine now that I've used my lunch break to dig around for photos where the use of an umbrella didn't seem to be a limitation.... which was more fun than eating anyway.
Message edited by author 2009-08-06 15:51:08. |
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08/06/2009 04:06:04 PM · #97 |
| Ok... so I went back and read this entire thread, every entry, and now I'm really wondering what is going on with the dpchallenge community. Did anybody look at Ben's portfolio? He may not have entered challenges, he may be trying to drive web traffic to his blog and you may question why he came here in the first place, but none of that has anything to do with how much you might be able to learn from him. He could do a full tilt Gordon Ramsay style bashing on me and I would still listen to what he had to say. This is photography and there are no absolutes but input and opinion can definitely contribute to any photographer's core knowledge and understanding. Finding any advice beyond the traditional how-to stuff is not easy... do we need to scare away everybody with skill and knowledge to be shared? |
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08/06/2009 04:40:39 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
. He could do a full tilt Gordon Ramsay style bashing on me and I would still listen to what he had to say. |
Is this the same Gordon Ramsey who had to plow a load of money into his businesses recently just to keep them afloat, got caught having an affair and was sussed out he didn't actually play Scottish premier league football as he liked to brag about?
Just asking thats all.
Message edited by author 2009-08-06 16:42:42. |
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08/06/2009 04:49:46 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
Ok... so I went back and read this entire thread, every entry, and now I'm really wondering what is going on with the dpchallenge community. Did anybody look at Ben's portfolio? He may not have entered challenges, he may be trying to drive web traffic to his blog and you may question why he came here in the first place, but none of that has anything to do with how much you might be able to learn from him. He could do a full tilt Gordon Ramsay style bashing on me and I would still listen to what he had to say. This is photography and there are no absolutes but input and opinion can definitely contribute to any photographer's core knowledge and understanding. Finding any advice beyond the traditional how-to stuff is not easy... do we need to scare away everybody with skill and knowledge to be shared? |
DPC is, pretty much, a back-patting, everything is wonderful, do-no-wrong, don't you dare tell me anything but how fabulous I am Love-In community :P
There are flashes of brilliance and of people choosing not to follow that clique, but you pretty much can't go against the grain too much or too often or you get labeled a disturber. lol.
What can ya do, right? |
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08/06/2009 05:07:23 PM · #100 |
It could be, and probably is, the same Gordon Ramsey. Is he a good chef beyond the fact that he lies about playing football, got caught in having an affair and cannot manage his money? If he is, then I would still listen to him yell about cooking.
I'm sure it seemed like I was defending the OP, but that really wasn't my point. I've been working very hard lately to move beyond standard portrait lighting and it's not as easy as it would seem. The minute I moved away from proven formulas I was faced with spill where I didn't need it, shadows that I swear came from objects in the next room and truly horrifying results that look nothing like the magazine photography I dreamed of creating. The original post may have been modified, but when I finally got to it I found the input to be a kick in the head, but in the right direction.
Of course I should know better than to jump on a week old thread! |
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