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 08/31/2012 09:16:39 AM · #1
As noted in the discussions related to the previous challenge, it doesn't take being around here very long before
you can figure out as many as a dozen or more entrants in any given challenge, by style, processing, subject matter
and/or people or toy dragons in their shots. Try it for yourself- I bet you know more of the entrants in any given challenge than you think.

I am not saying its bad or good but I don't see why there needs to be anonymity. I understand that there might be a voting skew, voting up or down based upon actually knowing the photog, or perhaps comparing the past work and voting based upon that-
but anyone who would claim that "anonymous voting is the cornerstone of DPC" - what possible argument could be made?

Message edited by author 2012-08-31 09:17:12.
 08/31/2012 09:22:55 AM · #2
It's more anonymous than if we just posted names on the entries. I like to guess, but I'm often wrong.
 08/31/2012 09:26:28 AM · #3
Bias would exist, it's human nature.
Anecdotal hypothesis here, but I'm sure if someone was deciding between one score or another on one of my image and knew I was the photographer, they might side with the lower score because of my low voting average. This could be extrapolated to other entries just as easily.

I don't understand how people can't pick out images easily. When the Desserts was in voting, I knew this was vawendy's photo immediately.

She had to ask how in a PM, and it was the fork. She's used that fork before and I don't forget things like that. Do other people not pick up the subtle nuances? In any given challenge, based on locations, people, or items used, I can pull out 15-20 photos no problem.

Message edited by author 2012-08-31 09:31:28.
 08/31/2012 09:34:56 AM · #4
*In general* there's a tendency to value more highly the work of established artists; it's basic human nature to follow the herd. DPC anonymity, to the extent that it exists, is a useful leveler-of-the-field, even despite that *some* of us have been observing long enough (and critically enough) to pick out entries based upon props, styles, processing techniques, whatever. I'd contend that those of us who CAN do that also tend to be among the more objective voters, so I don't see it as much of an issue.

Message edited by author 2012-08-31 09:35:13.
 08/31/2012 09:35:14 AM · #5
I think as voters, we try to be as non-biased as possible, but it is hard to do. We all know what we like, and we tend to vote that way.

I would argue that anonymity is not even possible around here these days. The photogs that enter on a regular basis is a pretty small group, and many of these folks use similar models, props, etc., similar locations time and time again. What we clearly do NOT need is a ban on people using the same models, props and locations in multiple shots. We have enough trouble getting people to enter as it is!
08/31/2012 09:41:54 AM · #6
I guess there is a tendency for the more astute to be more objective. And I am certainly not suggesting that we try to create more anonymity by banning things. Also, I am not advocating that we add names to entries, I enjoy guessing at the entry's maker as much as the next voter. I guess I was just wondering if I was alone in thinking that anonymity was, for the most part, a pleasant white lie, an "emperor's new clothes" style fiction.
 08/31/2012 09:43:52 AM · #7
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
*In general* there's a tendency to value more highly the work of established artists; it's basic human nature to follow the herd. DPC anonymity, to the extent that it exists, is a useful leveler-of-the-field, even despite that *some* of us have been observing long enough (and critically enough) to pick out entries based upon props, styles, processing techniques, whatever. I'd contend that those of us who CAN do that also tend to be among the more objective voters, so I don't see it as much of an issue.


The funny thing is -- I think I have a tendency to lower a score based on knowing the artist more than to raise the score. I know I've run across some of the works of the big guns, being impressed with the photo, but then thinking that it's not quite up to their standards and giving an 8 instead of a 9 or 9 instead of a 10. I try very hard not to let that play into it. Yet sometimes after you've realized that, you see more flaws than you would have otherwise, and it just seeps in.


08/31/2012 09:45:34 AM · #8
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I guess there is a tendency for the more astute to be more objective. And I am certainly not suggesting that we try to create more anonymity by banning things. Also, I am not advocating that we add names to entries, I enjoy guessing at the entry's maker as much as the next voter. I guess I was just wondering if I was alone in thinking that anonymity was, for the most part, a pleasant white lie, an "emperor's new clothes" style fiction.


Absolutely an emperor's new clothes (which, by the way, I tried to do for nursery rhymes, but didn't have enough time. But my wonderful husband was willing to pose for it. :)
 08/31/2012 09:45:52 AM · #9
Turning the question around, what advantages would there be to add a persons name to a photo during voting?

I have always wondered if enabling anonymity when adding comments would be a good option as perhaps people are put off making comments thinking that their comments may reflect back on their lack of photography skills/knowledge. I know it is possible to have the comment anonymous during voting but as far as I am aware it is only possible for this period. I personally would not mind if the comments were anonymous if they were useful and I am not concerned about any negative comments either. It is nice however to get a positive comment from some of the big guns around here. Sorry to hijack the thread....
 08/31/2012 09:54:20 AM · #10
Totally off topic, but vawendy, I had that exact same idea for Nursery Rhymes and my husband was also willing!! HAHA! Too funny. :)
 08/31/2012 09:55:32 AM · #11
Originally posted by paulsteven:
Turning the question around, what advantages would there be to add a persons name to a photo during voting?

I have always wondered if enabling anonymity when adding comments would be a good option as perhaps people are put off making comments thinking that their comments may reflect back on their lack of photography skills/knowledge. I know it is possible to have the comment anonymous during voting but as far as I am aware it is only possible for this period. I personally would not mind if the comments were anonymous if they were useful and I am not concerned about any negative comments either. It is nice however to get a positive comment from some of the big guns around here. Sorry to hijack the thread....


not hijacked at all. good point and perspective. I think I would be more likely to give out comments during a challenge if I was certain who the photog was, and they would be more meaningful. Sometimes my lack of photographic stature prevents me from leaving a comment when I don't know who the entrant is.
 08/31/2012 09:58:01 AM · #12
Originally posted by paulsteven:
Turning the question around, what advantages would there be to add a persons name to a photo during voting?

Bear touched on this above.
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
*In general* there's a tendency to value more highly the work of established artists; it's basic human nature to follow the herd.

This most definitely happens. The converse would also be true to the individuals we don't like.
 08/31/2012 11:04:36 AM · #13
Originally posted by paulsteven:
Turning the question around, what advantages would there be to add a persons name to a photo during voting?


I like the way you think.
 08/31/2012 11:19:17 AM · #14
I think you have opened up a can of worms here.. I can guess the entries of some of the heavyweights through their processing styles, subjects, etc (ok so i thought the latest nursery rhymes winner was a gyaban entry and was proven wrong, but i can get it right more often than not). And i havent even been around for long, so im pretty sure that some of the old timers can definitely guess who's entry it is just by looking at the photographs.

Im not sure thats a bad thing however.. If theres one thing that im enjoying in this community is that it encourages one to think creatively and develop ones unique style. For example, i recently found out that i have a strong preference for black and white photographs (i guess it stems from one of my fave photographers out here, jagar). I guess it depends on what your goal is on this website.. For me, im here to learn and hopefully get better, so presently it suits me just fine!
 08/31/2012 05:19:59 PM · #15
Another website I frequent has a monthly photo comp where there is no anonymity. Can't say I have noticed it having any effect on the outcome and there is a small prize for the winner. It's only a small amount that enter, around 50, and we all know each other. Can't say I favour anyone in particular or am biased against anyone.

Having been around here for nearly 10 years I do tend to know a few of the photogs entries but I only vote on the photo not the person who took it.

08/31/2012 08:39:01 PM · #16
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
*In general* there's a tendency to value more highly the work of established artists; it's basic human nature to follow the herd.

This most definitely happens. The converse would also be true to the individuals we don't like.

That's true and based on my current score, my "toy dragons" and I know where we stand. :( Thankfully I mostly only enter for fun when I feel like devoting 20 minutes or so to the effort. ;-)

I can guess many of the entries and I try hard not to let it influence my voting, with the exception of revenge trolling. ;-) I say the issue to me is no big deal & doesn't necessarily need to be changed - it really only affects / is affected by the veteran voters, IMO.
 08/31/2012 09:33:44 PM · #17
I would choke to death and never leave a comment on a "big shooter's" picture except for well done or great etc... if I knew who it was... One day I left a suggestion comment on Bear's photo, OMG when it rolled over and I saw who it was I was so embarrased!! But, it was an honest opinion and not a nasty one I personaly really like to hear the honest critiques (even if I don't aggree with some LOL) Everyone has a bit of a different eye and I have learned thru life that there is something to be learned from darn near every one. BUT, If I saw lets say for example a Wendy shot that I felt was over processed I would NEVER say it if I knew who owned the shot!! Just because I don't feel I would be qualified to critique some one who does such wonderful work, and that I feel is a better photographer than myself..

So I say Anonymity Necessary!! I don't bag head myself so you can always yell at me during the challenge if I insult you... LOL
 08/31/2012 09:38:37 PM · #18
Originally posted by littlemav:
I would choke to death and never leave a comment on a "big shooter's" picture except for well done or great etc... if I knew who it was... One day I left a suggestion comment on Bear's photo, OMG when it rolled over and I saw who it was I was so embarrased!!


You survived, didn't you? :-) I'm a pussycat, as bears go.
 08/31/2012 09:40:12 PM · #19
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by littlemav:
I would choke to death and never leave a comment on a "big shooter's" picture except for well done or great etc... if I knew who it was... One day I left a suggestion comment on Bear's photo, OMG when it rolled over and I saw who it was I was so embarrased!!


You survived, didn't you? :-) I'm a pussycat, as bears go.


I did and you are a sweetheart!! I got a Bear hug instead of a Bear Bite!!!
 08/31/2012 09:58:04 PM · #20
Originally posted by littlemav:
I would choke to death and never leave a comment on a "big shooter's" picture except for well done or great etc... if I knew who it was... One day I left a suggestion comment on Bear's photo, OMG when it rolled over and I saw who it was I was so embarrased!! But, it was an honest opinion and not a nasty one I personaly really like to hear the honest critiques (even if I don't aggree with some LOL) Everyone has a bit of a different eye and I have learned thru life that there is something to be learned from darn near every one. BUT, If I saw lets say for example a Wendy shot that I felt was over processed I would NEVER say it if I knew who owned the shot!! Just because I don't feel I would be qualified to critique some one who does such wonderful work, and that I feel is a better photographer than myself..

So I say Anonymity Necessary!! I don't bag head myself so you can always yell at me during the challenge if I insult you... LOL


I wanted to hear others opinions and really wasn't suggesting we remove names.

Oddly enough, I bring this up with the same embarrassment in mind having also left Bear a comment about something, later to see who It was and cringe.
I think I gave him a suggestion on processing a shot! Ha!
 08/31/2012 10:06:41 PM · #21
Originally posted by blindjustice:

I think I gave him a suggestion on processing a shot! Ha!


This is true...
 08/31/2012 10:10:54 PM · #22
I prize the anonymity of the entries, because it keeps me honest as a voter. There are certain photographers here like jjbeguin who's work is beautiful but very subtle, that on a quick look can sometimes be bland but greatly reward careful study. Because I never know which work might be his I have to look carefully at everyone else's work, and give them the same amount of time in evaluation I would accord to those I most admire. Knowing who's work was whose would make it easier on my lazy nature to avoid making a fool of myself, and who wants that?
 08/31/2012 11:10:01 PM · #23
I think that a few of the most sensitive can identify a few of the entries. Even 15-20 in a challenge with 100+ entries is only a small fraction of the total.

I also think that the vast majority can't identify the vast majority of the entries.

So I disagree that anonymity is a "white lie" or "empereror's clothes."

And I think that's a good thing for the various reasons already mentioned.

I'll also say that I like not knowing because I can't give credit. I happen to like some blurry, poorly lit photos. I also happen to like some sharp, well-lit photos. I want to be free to vote either up or down on how that photo, without any explanation or identity, strikes me. And knowing will always bias me, even subconsciously, even if I try not to let it.

Message edited by author 2012-08-31 23:11:39.
 09/01/2012 06:24:13 AM · #24
Couldn't have said it any better.

Message edited by author 2012-09-01 06:24:37.
 09/01/2012 08:10:46 AM · #25
Originally posted by paulsteven:
Turning the question around, what advantages would there be to add a persons name to a photo during voting?

I have always wondered if enabling anonymity when adding comments would be a good option as perhaps people are put off making comments thinking that their comments may reflect back on their lack of photography skills/knowledge. I know it is possible to have the comment anonymous during voting but as far as I am aware it is only possible for this period. I personally would not mind if the comments were anonymous if they were useful and I am not concerned about any negative comments either. It is nice however to get a positive comment from some of the big guns around here. Sorry to hijack the thread....


Originally posted by blindjustice:
not hijacked at all. good point and perspective. I think I would be more likely to give out comments during a challenge if I was certain who the photog was, and they would be more meaningful. Sometimes my lack of photographic stature prevents me from leaving a comment when I don't know who the entrant is.

I'd bet quite a few of us would leave more comments should they know who the entrant is. I know one of the things that prevents me from leaving comments is the constant griping about who you can and can't leave a comment on their image.......like you have any way to tell when it's anonymous......
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