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08/22/2009 03:55:47 PM · #676 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Therein completely lies the issue. You, in your little dream world, think that there are only a few bad apples in the country. Wake up and look around. Have you ever even been to an inner city, low income housing area? I bet you've been there almost as much as you have read through the various health care reform bills. Take a ride, or as such a hurting self-employed individual, a walk around the 'projects' and count the luxury SUVs you see. Peek in and count the plasmas, LCDs, and the groqing number of LEDs. Count the PS3s, the Xboxes, the Wiis. The count their kids, their income from welfare, their food stamps, their medicaid healthcare, and THEN tell me that the problem is isolated. You cannot. I'm guessing that I am safe in assuming that you don't have very many of those areas in 'up-sate' NY, do you? Well, pull your head out of your ass and swing down into the big city. Peek around and tell me how I am wrong. You can't because I am not. Fix the abusers in the systems already in place, and then let's talk. Would you vote for mandatory birth control, drug testing, and proof of where you spent your last government supplemented income? Let me guess...somehow that infringes on the 'rights' of those that constantly suck the government tit. Keep living in your little dream world and I'll keep screaming the truth as I see it. |
I think this is dangerous halucination. Paranoid delusion.
The poor people of America are not, in fact, poor. They live in great luxury and comfort and Eric pays for it while working much harder than anybody else and enjoying no luxury and no comfort.
I wish I were a poor person in America. It must be great.
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08/22/2009 04:18:42 PM · #677 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
As for Eric, who has made it very clear that as long as he's got his, the rest of us can suck eggs, yes, I'd call that selfish. What would you call it? He has also stated that until the powers-that-be can guarantee that there are zero cheaters in the welfare system, he will be against reform of the health care system. I say that's an excuse for doing nothing. I'd love to rid the system of the few bad apples, but I don't see why the existence of those bad apples should stand in the way of us reforming health care. |
Therein completely lies the issue. You, in your little dream world, think that there are only a few bad apples in the country. Wake up and look around. Have you ever even been to an inner city, low income housing area? I bet you've been there almost as much as you have read through the various health care reform bills. Take a ride, or as such a hurting self-employed individual, a walk around the 'projects' and count the luxury SUVs you see. Peek in and count the plasmas, LCDs, and the groqing number of LEDs. Count the PS3s, the Xboxes, the Wiis. The count their kids, their income from welfare, their food stamps, their medicaid healthcare, and THEN tell me that the problem is isolated. You cannot. I'm guessing that I am safe in assuming that you don't have very many of those areas in 'up-sate' NY, do you? Well, pull your head out of your ass and swing down into the big city. Peek around and tell me how I am wrong. You can't because I am not. Fix the abusers in the systems already in place, and then let's talk. Would you vote for mandatory birth control, drug testing, and proof of where you spent your last government supplemented income? Let me guess...somehow that infringes on the 'rights' of those that constantly suck the government tit. Keep living in your little dream world and I'll keep screaming the truth as I see it. |
I've noticed that not once have you posted a link to any hard statistics to back up your assertion that this problem is as large as you seem to think it is. For your information, I was raised in New York City and lived in Washington, D.C. for 20 years, so I'm well acquainted with poverty. The county where I now reside in upstate New York is one of the poorest in the country. Do you think poverty doesn't exist in rural areas of this country? I suggest YOU get out and take a drive around and tell me how many of the poor people where I live are on food stamps and tooling around in brand-new SUVs -- none that I've observed. You're talking about a criminal element, and I'd wager that it's a very small portion of the folks who move in and out of the welfare system. And while I'm waiting for you to produce some hard facts on this issue, you can also explain what the hell this has to do with reforming health care. |
Let me draw you a picture. The government cannot, or maybe even simply chooses not, to effectively and efficiently administer the handout programs that they already have in place. By your account, its such a minute number that it should be very easy to remedy, right? Well, if they won't remedy the simplicity and small amounts of abuse to the current systems, how could they possibly administer a government-funded option for health care that was any better? They can't. I know poverty exists in rural areas. Maybe there, or at least in your little dream world, the massive amounts of abuse that I have personally witnessed aren't as widespread. I don't need statistics and made up figures to prove to you what my eyes see on a daily basis. You can keep closing your eyes to the reality of the situation if you want to. I will not.
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08/22/2009 04:21:51 PM · #678 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by yanko:
Do what thing? If I need the extra services like package tracking then sure I'll go with UPS. How does this even remotely prove your point about USPS being a failure? What because they don't offer package tracking? I've used USPS to ship many packages and guess what they all get delivered. Maybe it's just you getting phuct? Ever thought of that? |
Umm.....USPS *does* have package tracking.....
USPS Track & Confirm
They also have insurance & delivery receipt services. |
Dammit Jeb. I was trying to be nice and concede that one point. |
Have either of you ever used the USPS track and confirm? Unless there have been some recent and major changes to the system, it will tell you that they have it or that its been delivered. FedEx and UPS let you see exactly where the package is in the shipping process, as well as when you can expect it to be delivered. Never see that at USPS. I do see that they constantly raise rates AND are now looking at closing many post offices around the country. My mistake, they are doing great...at least by governmental input standards.
Message edited by author 2009-08-22 16:41:01.
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08/22/2009 05:18:23 PM · #679 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
As for Eric, who has made it very clear that as long as he's got his, the rest of us can suck eggs, yes, I'd call that selfish. What would you call it? He has also stated that until the powers-that-be can guarantee that there are zero cheaters in the welfare system, he will be against reform of the health care system. I say that's an excuse for doing nothing. I'd love to rid the system of the few bad apples, but I don't see why the existence of those bad apples should stand in the way of us reforming health care. |
Therein completely lies the issue. You, in your little dream world, think that there are only a few bad apples in the country. Wake up and look around. Have you ever even been to an inner city, low income housing area? I bet you've been there almost as much as you have read through the various health care reform bills. Take a ride, or as such a hurting self-employed individual, a walk around the 'projects' and count the luxury SUVs you see. Peek in and count the plasmas, LCDs, and the groqing number of LEDs. Count the PS3s, the Xboxes, the Wiis. The count their kids, their income from welfare, their food stamps, their medicaid healthcare, and THEN tell me that the problem is isolated. You cannot. I'm guessing that I am safe in assuming that you don't have very many of those areas in 'up-sate' NY, do you? Well, pull your head out of your ass and swing down into the big city. Peek around and tell me how I am wrong. You can't because I am not. Fix the abusers in the systems already in place, and then let's talk. Would you vote for mandatory birth control, drug testing, and proof of where you spent your last government supplemented income? Let me guess...somehow that infringes on the 'rights' of those that constantly suck the government tit. Keep living in your little dream world and I'll keep screaming the truth as I see it. |
I've noticed that not once have you posted a link to any hard statistics to back up your assertion that this problem is as large as you seem to think it is. For your information, I was raised in New York City and lived in Washington, D.C. for 20 years, so I'm well acquainted with poverty. The county where I now reside in upstate New York is one of the poorest in the country. Do you think poverty doesn't exist in rural areas of this country? I suggest YOU get out and take a drive around and tell me how many of the poor people where I live are on food stamps and tooling around in brand-new SUVs -- none that I've observed. You're talking about a criminal element, and I'd wager that it's a very small portion of the folks who move in and out of the welfare system. And while I'm waiting for you to produce some hard facts on this issue, you can also explain what the hell this has to do with reforming health care. |
Let me draw you a picture. The government cannot, or maybe even simply chooses not, to effectively and efficiently administer the handout programs that they already have in place. By your account, its such a minute number that it should be very easy to remedy, right? Well, if they won't remedy the simplicity and small amounts of abuse to the current systems, how could they possibly administer a government-funded option for health care that was any better? They can't. I know poverty exists in rural areas. Maybe there, or at least in your little dream world, the massive amounts of abuse that I have personally witnessed aren't as widespread. I don't need statistics and made up figures to prove to you what my eyes see on a daily basis. You can keep closing your eyes to the reality of the situation if you want to. I will not. |
As I suspected, you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks. |
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08/22/2009 05:57:21 PM · #680 |
This is a true story:
When my wife and I went to get help from our local DHS they told us we did not qualify because we made $38/mo. to much. At that time I was sick and had to step down from a high paying job to low paying poverty level income job. My wife did not work but was aggressively looking for work. We have to kids; a family of four. When we paid our bills which consisted only of essentials such as rent, car payment, utilities, and what little groceries we could buy we had less than $20 leftover at the end of the month. Go figure; I think that should qualify for food stamps.
I just happen to have a friend that worked at the same place but in a different department. A few weeks after we were denied I told her about the situation and how mad I was to see people driving around in high-end cars or cars with rims that cost more than the car blaring a stereo that had to cost hundreds of dollars and seeing them filling bag after bag with food paid for on a food stamp card. Why did I not qualify.
Here is what she told me. Have your wife to go down and apply and say you left here and the kids. She will get food stamps (the max) and you both can live together because no one will try to find you. She told me that is how half of the people qualify for food stamps and other benefits. She told me she believed that over half of benefits paid out was paid in fraud. And she worked in the department that was in charge of locating fraud.
I told her my wife and I couldn't do that. If we could not get it legally then we wouldn't get it at all. Guess what we didn't get any help. It was a morral thing. Unfortunately a lot of people don't believe in having good morals.
Message edited by author 2009-08-22 17:58:57. |
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08/22/2009 06:35:42 PM · #681 |
| Well, isn't the real point of your story is that the limits which define what "deserving" people deserve some assistance is set absurdly (at least $38) too low? That given that over the past several years most people's real earinings have dropped -- that for doing the same work they were now able to purchase less -- more people are going to need help? (Note that during this same period the real incomes of the wealthiest percentiles rose far faster than inflation). And when I hear talk about food stamp fraud, I have to wonder how many of those food stamp fraudsters were hiding their ill-gotten gains in those Swiss bank accounts ... |
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08/25/2009 02:48:56 PM · #682 |
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08/25/2009 04:16:05 PM · #683 |
Worth a listen: T.R. Reid: Looking Overseas For 'Healing Of America'
August 24, 2009
Journalist and author T.R. Reid set out on a global tour of hospitals and doctors' offices, all in the hopes of understanding how other industrialized nations provide affordable, effective universal health care. The result: his book The Healing of America: A Global Quest for Better, Cheaper, and Fairer Health Care.
Reid is a foreign correspondent for The Washington Post — in whose pages he recently addressed five major myths about other countries' health-care systems — and the former chief of the paper's London and Tokyo bureaus.
Originally posted by Interview Transcript:
Harry Truman wanted to provide universal health care in 1947. The American Medical Association, the doctors, hired a PR firm, who invented the term socialized medicine. Nobody knew what it meant, but I think the idea was if you wanted to provide health care to your sick neighbor, you were a commie, and you know, during the Cold War, that was a powerful argument.
The amazing thing is it's still a powerful argument. I don't know that anybody can define socialized medicine, but nobody seems to like it, except, Terry, when Americans get government-run medicine, they really like it.
The VA, the Native American Health Service and Medicare are the three most popular health care systems in America, all run by government. |
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08/25/2009 04:25:38 PM · #684 |
No kidding. Fascinating...
R. |
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08/25/2009 04:37:12 PM · #685 |
I quite agree. Very illuminating! |
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08/27/2009 02:34:59 PM · #686 |
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08/27/2009 03:12:37 PM · #687 |
Originally posted by SDW:
This is a true story:
When my wife and I went to get help from our local DHS they told us we did not qualify because we made $38/mo. to much. At that time I was sick and had to step down from a high paying job to low paying poverty level income job. My wife did not work but was aggressively looking for work. We have to kids; a family of four. When we paid our bills which consisted only of essentials such as rent, car payment, utilities, and what little groceries we could buy we had less than $20 leftover at the end of the month. Go figure; I think that should qualify for food stamps.
I just happen to have a friend that worked at the same place but in a different department. A few weeks after we were denied I told her about the situation and how mad I was to see people driving around in high-end cars or cars with rims that cost more than the car blaring a stereo that had to cost hundreds of dollars and seeing them filling bag after bag with food paid for on a food stamp card. Why did I not qualify.
Here is what she told me. Have your wife to go down and apply and say you left here and the kids. She will get food stamps (the max) and you both can live together because no one will try to find you. She told me that is how half of the people qualify for food stamps and other benefits. She told me she believed that over half of benefits paid out was paid in fraud. And she worked in the department that was in charge of locating fraud.
I told her my wife and I couldn't do that. If we could not get it legally then we wouldn't get it at all. Guess what we didn't get any help. It was a morral thing. Unfortunately a lot of people don't believe in having good morals. |
And somehow you made it. GOOD FOR YOU ! You are to be commended. |
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08/30/2009 08:56:35 PM · #688 |
It's getting very scary out there. This runs far deeper than policy... |
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08/30/2009 11:29:21 PM · #689 |
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08/30/2009 11:49:48 PM · #690 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
It's getting very scary out there. This runs far deeper than policy... |
Both sides do it and it's a shame. |
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08/31/2009 12:46:27 AM · #691 |
Originally posted by SDW:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
It's getting very scary out there. This runs far deeper than policy... |
Both sides do it and it's a shame. |
This isn't even in the ballpark by comparison. For starters Obama's not been a bully he hasn't led us into war or physical danger, didn't blame Iraq for 9/11 or invade a country, propagandize us with fear, he didn't mangle the language, he's far more intelligent than Bush and doesn't parade around like a macho cowboy. Nobody came close to protesting him on the streets with this degree of venom his first year in office. For such a preposterous figure he received the average treatment but this is out of hand.
The Democrats play their games but to a fault they're way too weak to compete on this level. They'll sling mud, sure but they don't have the stomach for it like Anne Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. I mean, Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow are creampuff clowns, not in the league of what's coming from the right. Some of this stuff is coming from FOX commentators and other major media organizations not a few little people. This is bigger.
Message edited by author 2009-08-31 01:08:02. |
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08/31/2009 02:25:39 AM · #692 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
This isn't even in the ballpark by comparison. For starters Obama's not been a bully |
Yes he has trying every scare tactic to get the healthcare bill done immediately, when we have time to come up with a bill that can benefit citizens and let us have time to read it. The Whitehouse tried to use flag@whitehouse.gov as a way of collecting names on citizens that does not agree with Washington agenda. He used scare tactics to push through the stimulus bill.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
he hasn't led us into war or physical danger, |
He hasn't had time to lead us into one YET but his policies are going to get us there. His Afghanistan is going south, we need a new strategy.[/quote]
Originally posted by pawdrix:
didn't blame Iraq for 9/11 or invade a country, |
You really can't say can you? because you are listening to what he is saying when this is why he didn't vote. The vote authorizing President Bush to wage combat operations in Iraq was on October 11, 2002, and Obama wasn̢۪t elected until 2004. Then Obama̢۪s "no" vote in the Senate on Bush̢۪s successful surge of troops, although this may have been the most critical-sounding passage.
Originally posted by pawdrix:
The Democrats play their games but to a fault they're way too weak to compete on this level. They'll sling mud, sure but they don't have the stomach for it like Anne Coulter or Rush Limbaugh. I mean, Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow are creampuff clowns, not in the league of what's coming from the right. Some of this stuff is coming from FOX commentators and other major media organizations not a few little people. This is bigger. |
I would like for someone to tell me what they mean when they say, "This is bigger"?
No do I think Bush did things right? NO! Do I think Obama is doing things right? NO! and that can go on further down the line of Presidents.
Message edited by author 2009-08-31 02:30:52. |
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08/31/2009 03:31:36 AM · #693 |
Originally posted by SDW:
His Afghanistan is going south, we need a new strategy. |
[/quote]
His Afghanistan...huh? That's an interesting way to put it.
I assume his logic was to at least get one thing right and that's why he's focused on that country. It does makes some sense but I believe it's a lost cause. However, we did have one good chance to reform them, if even slightly but that was pre-Iraq. That window of opportunity passed years ago. I think he's having difficulty leaving them to their own device because they are still potentially as dangerous as they were on 9/11. Pakistan is falling apart at the seems and leaving three huge holes in that region hardly seems right. Viet Nams everywhere... I know it's Obama's Afghanistan and Iraq, entirely his doing but the cost at the end of Bushes term, for both wars was around 1 Trillion dollars and both conflicts are far from over and most likely will never be properly resolved. We definitely diverted the terrorists attention back to their own ground for the time being but are we really any safer or did we just postpone another attack on our soil.
Iraq was a loss from the word go but it's hard for any President to pull away from such an event when so much blood's been spilled. Johnson...Nixon both wanted closure and in an odd way I can understand that. 4336 Americans dead, 31,156 wounded in Iraq and 807 dead, 3,722 wounded in Afghanistan so, pulling out leaving the place in the same or worse condition is hard to digest especially for the families who have directly suffered losses. There has to be a reason. I don't envy his position but I understand why he chose to focus energy where we dropped the ball, in the first place.
By "bigger" I mean there are a few people in Congress, like Jim DeMint who have vowed to "break" him and have compared his policies to Hitler and Nazi Germany...which is a monstrous stretch. The rhetoric from the right wing media has been inflamatory, short on facts and is going to get the President killed. I mean, we're talking health care with a public option and as for the gov't bailing out big business, what else could we do? After millions of people lost their homes, life saving, jobs and things could have sunken to far deeper levels would you have preferred that? People are making the assumption that government wanted to take over the financial institutions, as if it were some Socialist Master Plan. "Yes...finally we've got control"
As Big Banks Repay Bailout Money, U.S. Sees a Profit
Have you ever heard Barbara Bachman speak, btw...? Yikes and I thought Palin was a complete moron but she's running a close second. To think either of those two are shaping public opinion is a mind-fuck.
Did he try to rush through the healthcare bill, yes. Did he use scare tactics, no...unless you scare easily. Keep in mind he probably could have passed a bill without any Republican support but he chose trying to take a bipartisan route.
Message edited by author 2009-08-31 09:59:46. |
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08/31/2009 10:09:12 AM · #694 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Did he try to rush through the healthcare bill, yes. Did he use scare tactics, no...unless you scare easily. |
Wow. Talk about only seeing one side of things. The republican tactics don't scare me. That must mean YOU scare easily, huh?
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08/31/2009 10:29:04 AM · #695 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Did he try to rush through the healthcare bill, yes. Did he use scare tactics, no...unless you scare easily. |
Wow. Talk about only seeing one side of things. The republican tactics don't scare me. That must mean YOU scare easily, huh? |
When you hear so many false assumptions..."death panels"...the Nazi stuff come squirting out, characterizing Obama as Heath Legers Joker in the Town Hall meetings it's a little disconcerting and it shows how gullible we are which is dangerous. Since much of it's being propagated by insurance companies...who of course are looking out for our best interest that is scary. Do you recall all the efforts to characterize Obama as a Muslim? It was complete bullshit but it did catch fire. Not cool. Palin herself fed that frenzy which didn't maker the McCain camp all too happy and that's why that had to reign her in.
Republicans have demonstrated fairly well how mean their leaders can be. Carl Rove is a prick. He outed Valerie Plame for revenge (no exaggeration but that's Treason) and he was involved Alberto Gonzales firing of Justices. Dick Cheney is a scumbag of the first order and so was Rumsfeld. Those two were brilliant at snuffing and intimidating the media...I give them props for that. Honestly, I think Bush was probably a nice guy...dumb as a frickin stick but he didn't know any better. He wised up a little when he parked Cheney and forced Rumsfeld to resign, Gonzales fell on the knife but it was too little too late.
What scary rhetoric has Obama used? Has he scared the elderly...usually an easy target, by anything he's said?
Message edited by author 2009-08-31 10:57:46. |
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08/31/2009 10:45:15 AM · #696 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Did he try to rush through the healthcare bill, yes. Did he use scare tactics, no...unless you scare easily. |
Wow. Talk about only seeing one side of things. The republican tactics don't scare me. That must mean YOU scare easily, huh? |
Comments removed as they might have upset some.
Ray
Message edited by author 2009-08-31 12:07:01. |
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08/31/2009 06:45:56 PM · #697 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
What scary rhetoric has Obama used? Has he scared the elderly...usually an easy target, by anything he's said? |
I guess we are ignoring the push to get his health care agenda rushed through Congress before the August break to avoid the failure of our nation. |
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08/31/2009 06:46:24 PM · #698 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Did he try to rush through the healthcare bill, yes. Did he use scare tactics, no...unless you scare easily. |
Wow. Talk about only seeing one side of things. The republican tactics don't scare me. That must mean YOU scare easily, huh? |
Comments removed as they might have upset some.
Ray |
Feel free to PM. I am not easily offended or upset. |
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08/31/2009 10:15:19 PM · #699 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
What scary rhetoric has Obama used? Has he scared the elderly...usually an easy target, by anything he's said? |
I guess we are ignoring the push to get his health care agenda rushed through Congress before the August break to avoid the failure of our nation. |
WTF does that sentence mean? But look back at your calendar to last August if you can go back that far? Our Nation had failed right around then or at least that's when it was obvious to most of the thinking world. Now, if you push forward a few months that's when we had our national elections...November, correct? Obama was sworn in when...? We've been crumbling way before he hit the scene.
Anyway you cut it, he's NOT used scare tactics but has tried to rush legislation rush to capitalize on the "honeymoon" which he's barely had. Is that good...No but it doesn't earn him the label of being Karl Marx, Hitler or The Joker.
Were the only Western power that hasn't embraced health care for all it's citizens and that doesn't make sense.
eta: I wish Ray would re-post his comment. It wasn't that bad but more important it was true.
Message edited by author 2009-08-31 22:18:12. |
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09/01/2009 09:01:17 AM · #700 |
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