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12/18/2002 08:31:39 AM · #1 |
I am not fortunate to have photoshop. Can someone give me some pointers in retaining quality and changing sizes in Paint Shop Pro? Both my entries this week are suffering somewhat because of image quality. Neither look as good as the originals due to size changes.
thanks, in advance.
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12/18/2002 09:25:18 AM · #2 |
I have no experiance with Paint Shop Pro, but if it turns out to be a software problem, search for the 'Gimp'. It is freeware and can do much of what PhotoShop can do.
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12/18/2002 02:03:07 PM · #3 |
Well, I'm flying blind here because I don't have PSP, but there is one thing I can think of:
Make sure that your image mode (if that's an option) is set to RGB color. If you are converting your images to web format, you might be saving them as "Indexed Color," which means the photo is saved with fewer colors stored in it. Any resizing after that only uses those stored colors and can cause a lot of pixelly and grainy edges.
It would help if I could see an example of what you're talking about. I'm not trying to find out what your images are this week, but if you have another example where this has happened that you can post somewhere, maybe I could be more help.
8) rob
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12/18/2002 03:15:55 PM · #4 |
Well, I just played around some in PSP 7. I don't know if that's the version you have, but hopefully this information will make sense.
When you resize your image down to the final size you want (like 640x480), go to the File menu and choose Save As... In that window, there is a button that says "Options..." Click Options.
The options window, apparently, defaults to a compression ratio of 15. This is too high and will produce lower-quality images. Click on the Run Optimizer... button instead.
The optimizer will allow you to change the Compression Value and see the file size of the final image as a result. It starts at 1, and in my example, that gives me a final file size of 222,932 bytes. (It shows the file size under the "Compressed" image on the upper right.) If I change the Compression Value to 2, I get a file size of 178,862. CV of 3 = 155,499 -- this is roughly the 150K limit for DPChallenge. To get under that limit, I just go one more Compression Value, to 4. This gives me a file size of 137,943, which is fine for DPC. It will also be a much higher-quality image than one with the default Compression Value of 15.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
Rob
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12/18/2002 04:05:31 PM · #5 |
| I always go to File/Export/Jpeg Optimizer. I compress as little as possible while meeting the maximum file size for this site. It works great for me. Another thing I do is always resize the image before I do any compression on it. |
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12/18/2002 07:25:41 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by joanns:
I always go to File/Export/Jpeg Optimizer. I compress as little as possible while meeting the maximum file size for this site. It works great for me. Another thing I do is always resize the image before I do any compression on it. |
Let me restate the steps that we are talking about.
Open picture.
Click on WINDOWS, click duplicate. Close original jpeg and rename new file in 'save as' under the FILE menu.
Make what ever modifications in color contrast and light that you want.
Use the select tool if you want only part of your original to be your final image. Hit control-c then control-v and the selected area will become a new image.
Under IMAGE hit resize and in the detail window type in 640 for the longest size. The short side dimention will fill in automatically. In PSP there are options for resampling methoids. I find that the one called Smart works best but you should test out the other choices.
NOW use sharpen or Unsharp Mask. Unless you want a soft picture never skip this step. Rename your file so you will know which is the small version.
If you decide you want to trim one side back a classic proportion, Use the crop tool because you can slide the slected area around before you crop it. Remember, cropping can not be un-done.
I belive the make border option under IMAGE adds pixels to your image so I use another methoid. Select All, Modify, Contract by the with of border you want in pixels. Invert. Flood fill selected area, select none --- and you are done.
Now as Joanns recommends go to FILE/export/ Jpeg Optimizer. This will open up the window that Muckpond was discribing. There are two preview windows that you can zoom in on that let you check on the compression results. Other wise it's just a matter of clicking on the ruler till you get close to 150.
Click save and then save as. I find it helps me to always save them to my UPLoad file.
Hope that helps. Aelith
edit: Right kandy, smart not logical. slip of the brain there.
Message edited by author 2002-12-18 21:51:03.
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12/18/2002 07:45:23 PM · #7 |
WOW Aelith! I thought I knew a good bit about PSP but I learned a couple of things from your brief tutorial there. Great job. One of the things that I feel helps is that I use Unsharp Mask, Sharpen or Neat Image BEFORE I resize it. Then after I do everything else I sharpen or Unsharp Mask again. This really seems to make a difference. It may be because I have a low end camera that this is necessary but the difference in before and after is incredible.
One other thing...make sure that you do whatever is necessary before you save. Everytime you save, you lose a little bit on your beloved photo. Basically you said that, Aelith but I just wanted to make it clear.
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12/18/2002 07:55:29 PM · #8 |
Oops I should have clarified. That first save of the duplicate will save it in the PSP format which is lossless. YOu are not working on the jpeg at all. And it only goes back to jpeg after compression.
Thanks
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12/18/2002 09:17:29 PM · #9 |
Well, I am doing all those steps, except it was trial and error in the compression value until I found the one that was the closest under 150k. I would save my original 640 x whatever as an uncompressed tif, then continue to try to save as .jpg at the best size, so that the photo sent in had only been saved once as .jpg. Thanks for the tip on the optimizer, however, that will save me time.
Likely when I downsized one of my entries, I didn't sharpen mask enough and didn't notice it as I sent it in at 5 minutes before the deadline. I use the smart size option, couldn't find a "logical" in my version, bet they are the same.
The other entry was a tight crop from the origninal and since I am using a 2.11mp camera, I tried to make it larger and it just looks jpg'd out, if you know what I mean. I read the great tutorial on enlarging in PS, but I don't have some of the options in PSP7 that are in PS that were outlined in that article. Does that make more clear my questions??
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12/18/2002 09:44:48 PM · #10 |
Kandyi, does your camera have resolutions larger than 640x480? that's too low for web submissions. You only need tiff format if you are going to print the picture and then you want it in the highest resolution possible. Anyway if your image out of the camera is already 640x480 then you can skip the resizing steps. Still sence your working with lowRes to begin with compression will always be a problem. If I have misunderstood you yet again let us know.
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12/18/2002 10:32:32 PM · #11 |
I am not doing a very good job of making myself clear. I have a 2.11mp camera. I do all my adjustments (levels, saturation, crop, rotate or whatever) on the original out of my camera. Then I downsize to the dpc's regs (640 max either way). That is when I convert to .jpg. With the optimizer I don't need to save to tiff anymore.
What I need help with is taking a photo that I have decided to do an extreme crop on that may leave me with a 300*300 image that I want to upsize to 600*600 for the challenge. What I need to do first is try to use my zoom more on the original..but am just learning so sometimes I end up with one idea only to crop the photo way down as I like the cropped better than the original. Does that make more sense??
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12/18/2002 11:42:10 PM · #12 |
Ok, I hope some one else can help with this too. As I understand it, upsizing is like painting on a deflated balloon. When you blow it up the pixels spread out and the computer fills in the spaces with averaging colors. It can not create detail that is no longer there.
The only thing I can suggest is to make the extreme crop on the original copy. Not the Jpeg you off-loaded from the camera but the duplicate you make in PSP. You can make any number of dups without hurting the camera file.
Ah, I haven't read the sizing tutorial you mention so I'm not sure what options you find missing. Begins to sound like I'm being too basic.
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12/19/2002 06:30:53 PM · #13 |
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12/19/2002 08:13:30 PM · #14 |
Sounds like you have one of the best zoom capabilities out there with a 10X optical zoom. Your camera can take 1600 x 1200 pixel photographs at its highest resolution. I would recommend taking pictures at the 1600 x 1200 resolution and using the great zoom you have. Zoom in on your subject using the camera, not afterwards with software. That way you will have the best/most resolution you can get. The more you upsize a picture, the lower the quality you will end up with, no matter what camera you have.
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12/19/2002 10:48:45 PM · #15 |
This is one of the most useful threads I have read... Most of my photos end up being only 30k or so due to all the compression. I started submitting unedited photos for a while there.
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