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11/04/2009 04:45:40 AM · #1 |
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11/04/2009 05:07:18 AM · #2 |
| We wait for the next poll. Which will be should we skip straight from 640 to 1024? Then a big debate will ensue, the poll will close and we will rinse and repeat. |
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11/04/2009 05:16:50 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by Bugzeye:
We wait for the next poll. Which will be should we skip straight from 640 to 1024? Then a big debate will ensue, the poll will close and we will rinse and repeat. |
That was kinda what was on my mind, too.
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11/04/2009 07:35:00 AM · #4 |
I kinda gotta agree......would like to know the purpose and follow up on the size poll.
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11/04/2009 07:42:36 AM · #5 |
and the DPL too, since DPC took over it has been stuck in the cupboard in total darkness.
I agree (which is rare) with eric, it is a bout time we upped the file res to be honest |
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11/04/2009 07:51:57 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
... The previous polls all voiced the same desire. ... |
???! Trying to beef up your statement with non-relevant links? I'll agree that the last poll just completed had 80% in favor of going to 800x800, but the other poll (yes, singular, as in 1 of 3 you listed) was not so definitive. |
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11/04/2009 08:14:52 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
... The previous polls all voiced the same desire. ... |
???! Trying to beef up your statement with non-relevant links? I'll agree that the last poll just completed had 80% in favor of going to 800x800, but the other poll (yes, singular, as in 1 of 3 you listed) was not so definitive. |
Only in your little, imaginary world, Barry, is a vast majority not definitive. The vast majority, 882 out of 10067, favored significant increase. Get it now?
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11/04/2009 09:32:45 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
... The previous polls all voiced the same desire. ... |
???! Trying to beef up your statement with non-relevant links? I'll agree that the last poll just completed had 80% in favor of going to 800x800, but the other poll (yes, singular, as in 1 of 3 you listed) was not so definitive. |
Only in your little, imaginary world, Barry, is a vast majority not definitive. The vast majority, 882 out of 10067, favored significant increase. Get it now? |
882 out of 10067 isn't even close to a majority, never mind a vast one. ;o) |
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11/04/2009 09:44:52 AM · #9 |
I think the question is, Do you really believe that every single member/registered user listed in the database are still active here? I personally dont. But I do believe that the number of people who actually voted in the last 2 polls for the size change represents a majority of the people who actually care about it.
It is crazy to believe that 10,000+ people are active on this site, If that were true, Challenges would have more than 200-300 entries on a regular basis.
Eta: Right now all the challenges that are in voting stage contain a total of 776 images. Now figure out how many of us have more than one image in voting, I have 2 right now. I would guess the number of actual people in is around 400 or even less.
Message edited by author 2009-11-04 09:49:29. |
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11/04/2009 09:46:46 AM · #10 |
| I think a little fun was being tossed at eric regarding a potential typo...the 10067 probably was meant to be 1006. :-) |
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11/04/2009 10:46:52 AM · #11 |
Web design is more of an exercise in lowest common denominator rather than majority, even overwhelmingly, rule.
In our situation when we are designing public web sites, we look at all sorts of metrics.
We can tell what OS, browser, version, screen res, scripting ability, etc. people are on when they visit our sites.
When a desired feature, like screen resolution, is considered, we must have 90% or higher for that particular capability. Just this week we launched a new web site for our corporation. This is the first time we designed for 1024 px width. Until now, the design was for 800 px.
So while 4-1 in favor of something might seem inpressive, it wouldn't meet the required acceptance rate for us. |
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11/04/2009 10:57:14 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Just this week we launched a new web site for our corporation. This is the first time we designed for 1024 px width. Until now, the design was for 800 px. |
I'd be curious to know who the corporation is. A "standard" non-scaling page width has been 900+px for some years now. (There are no real standards, but measured against enterprise web sites -- Adobe, MS, even Zend -- the wider class site designs outnumber the smaller.) |
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11/04/2009 11:03:38 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I think a little fun was being tossed at eric regarding a potential typo...the 10067 probably was meant to be 1006. :-) |
yep. Freakin fat fingers. ;) I think there's an extra 0 in there.
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11/04/2009 11:06:07 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Web design is more of an exercise in lowest common denominator rather than majority, even overwhelmingly, rule.
In our situation when we are designing public web sites, we look at all sorts of metrics.
We can tell what OS, browser, version, screen res, scripting ability, etc. people are on when they visit our sites.
When a desired feature, like screen resolution, is considered, we must have 90% or higher for that particular capability. Just this week we launched a new web site for our corporation. This is the first time we designed for 1024 px width. Until now, the design was for 800 px.
So while 4-1 in favor of something might seem inpressive, it wouldn't meet the required acceptance rate for us. |
Do those clients pay an annual fee to use the site? Do you keep asking them what their size preferences are only to practically overlook the polled results?
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11/04/2009 11:31:05 AM · #15 |
| it would be interesting to know the number of users who have participated in some way over say the last 6 months, just to get an idea of the number out there. |
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11/04/2009 11:41:23 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Web design is more of an exercise in lowest common denominator rather than majority, even overwhelmingly, rule.
In our situation when we are designing public web sites, we look at all sorts of metrics.
We can tell what OS, browser, version, screen res, scripting ability, etc. people are on when they visit our sites.
When a desired feature, like screen resolution, is considered, we must have 90% or higher for that particular capability. Just this week we launched a new web site for our corporation. This is the first time we designed for 1024 px width. Until now, the design was for 800 px.
So while 4-1 in favor of something might seem inpressive, it wouldn't meet the required acceptance rate for us. |
Do those clients pay an annual fee to use the site? Do you keep asking them what their size preferences are only to practically overlook the polled results? |
I work for the corporation. We share the metrics with the stakeholders on a regular basis. They don't, or shouldn't have, size preferences. We base the decision on the capabilties of the vistors to the site.
Their desire is to make sure the information presented is viewable on as many clients' machines as possible.
This is a B2B site for the most part, so the criteria may be different for a B2C site. B2C may have even stricter requirements, especially now with netbooks hitting the market in large numbers.
As for screen resolution, the site metrics tell us that 96%+ of the vistors are on 1024x768 or higher, hence the decision to move from 800 to 1024 in the design demensions. |
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11/04/2009 02:56:56 PM · #17 |
Well, the majority, and vast majority, that repeatedly give a damn to voice an opinion with a poll vote do have size preferences. Are you saying we're wrong for wanting a change? It's a photography site for chrissakes. Do we really give a damn about netbooks? How much viewing, editing, and critiquing will be done on a netbook by a group with a passion for learning and developing their photographic skills?
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11/04/2009 03:08:38 PM · #18 |
All I know is that when I was editing my entry for the recent open challenges, I was about to re-size to 720, and felt very disappointed that I had to go down to 640 because the photo didn't look as nice. I am hoping that any change in size is implemented soon.
Perhaps D&L are waiting for the New Year? I know that two years ago, it was at New Year when HDR images were allowed in advanced. |
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11/04/2009 03:22:31 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Well, the majority, and vast majority, that repeatedly give a damn to voice an opinion with a poll vote do have size preferences. Are you saying we're wrong for wanting a change? It's a photography site for chrissakes. Do we really give a damn about netbooks? How much viewing, editing, and critiquing will be done on a netbook by a group with a passion for learning and developing their photographic skills? |
I'm just saying that just because you want it really really bad doesn't mean it's the best thing for the site.
I'm all for the larger sizes. I was trying to explain the process we go through where I work. It may or may not be the same at DPC.
The point was, just because it is 4 to 1 in favor in a voluntary poll, don't expect that that is all there is to the decision making process. |
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11/04/2009 04:57:36 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Well, the majority, and vast majority, that repeatedly give a damn to voice an opinion with a poll vote do have size preferences. Are you saying we're wrong for wanting a change? It's a photography site for chrissakes. Do we really give a damn about netbooks? How much viewing, editing, and critiquing will be done on a netbook by a group with a passion for learning and developing their photographic skills? |
I'm just saying that just because you want it really really bad doesn't mean it's the best thing for the site.
I'm all for the larger sizes. I was trying to explain the process we go through where I work. It may or may not be the same at DPC.
The point was, just because it is 4 to 1 in favor in a voluntary poll, don't expect that that is all there is to the decision making process. |
I think the point more is: every single time this issue has come up, a significant majority has favored larger image size for DPC. So the issue is, what are they going to DO about it? Why is another poll needed, if they are not going to implement the desires expressed in it? I think people are feeling teased, maybe? I donno...
R.
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11/04/2009 05:07:50 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Well, the majority, and vast majority, that repeatedly give a damn to voice an opinion with a poll vote do have size preferences. Are you saying we're wrong for wanting a change? It's a photography site for chrissakes. Do we really give a damn about netbooks? How much viewing, editing, and critiquing will be done on a netbook by a group with a passion for learning and developing their photographic skills? |
I'm just saying that just because you want it really really bad doesn't mean it's the best thing for the site.
I'm all for the larger sizes. I was trying to explain the process we go through where I work. It may or may not be the same at DPC.
The point was, just because it is 4 to 1 in favor in a voluntary poll, don't expect that that is all there is to the decision making process. |
I think the point more is: every single time this issue has come up, a significant majority has favored larger image size for DPC. So the issue is, what are they going to DO about it? Why is another poll needed, if they are not going to implement the desires expressed in it? I think people are feeling teased, maybe? I donno...
R. |
I don't know either, maybe they are waiting for a higher percentage. |
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11/04/2009 05:13:46 PM · #22 |
I have to say that recent events from the Australians has me a bit shook up about bigger pictures. I have a picture with commercial appeal that I am thinking about for Best of 2009, but I'll say I now am seriously thinking about not entering it because it wouldn't have a watermark. 800 pixels would make it even worse. If upscaling programs are good enough to take a 640 pixel image and put it on a large sign, how much easier is 800 pixels going to be?
That and the fact that a significant portion of people would have to scroll makes the prospect of even bigger pics less appealing IMO. |
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11/04/2009 05:17:14 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If upscaling programs are good enough to take a 640 pixel image and put it on a large sign, how much easier is 800 pixels going to be?
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One could also argue that if someone could take a 640pxl photo and blow it up to a billboard, does it really matter what the size is, as they can all be taken and upscaled. In the case of image theft, the issue isn't pixel size, but rather, watermarking... which is a separate issue. |
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11/04/2009 05:20:36 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by VitaminB:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If upscaling programs are good enough to take a 640 pixel image and put it on a large sign, how much easier is 800 pixels going to be?
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One could also argue that if someone could take a 640pxl photo and blow it up to a billboard, does it really matter what the size is, as they can all be taken and upscaled. In the case of image theft, the issue isn't pixel size, but rather, watermarking... which is a separate issue. |
Good point. Although the people who saw the sign did say it was blurry. So the quality would be improved with a 800 px master. But perhaps you are right and I'm now more of a watermarking proponent than keeping the images small. Still, I don't want to scroll ever. If we go bigger, we'll definitely have to adjust what takes up space above the image. |
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11/04/2009 05:20:57 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I have to say that recent events from the Australians has me a bit shook up about bigger pictures. I have a picture with commercial appeal that I am thinking about for Best of 2009, but I'll say I now am seriously thinking about not entering it because it wouldn't have a watermark. 800 pixels would make it even worse. If upscaling programs are good enough to take a 640 pixel image and put it on a large sign, how much easier is 800 pixels going to be?
That and the fact that a significant portion of people would have to scroll makes the prospect of even bigger pics less appealing IMO. |
I hear ya, Doc, but we end up right back at nothing is truly safe from unauthorized use online. In my mind, the possibility of an actual TANGIBLE loss is still very insignificant. Sure, they are using your pic, but would they have paid you for it even if it were watermarked? Even the way it is used, the watermark would have had to been very ugly and distracting to make a difference. It still surprises me that they got results that good from a 640 px file. I'd like for D&L to give us what we ask for or tell us no and stop asking.
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