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10/03/2008 02:42:38 AM · #1 |
Hi guys,
Since making the switch from pc to mac I have noticed a problem come up that I have only encountered on maybe 2-3 occasions since starting photography. I ignored it in the past since it was so infrequent but now it is plaguing my life and makes me want to cry.
Basically when I edit a picture in photoshop it looks great, but then I upload it to facebook or even my kodak gallery where people sometimes print from and they look really bad, washed out and the color balance is all off. Aweful
Yes I edit in sRGB like everyone says, but no matter WHAT I do when I try and "save for web" the colors just go completely ugly. When I upload a file that has simply been resized to sites it looks icky, but when I upload a normal file to DPC it looks normal. I did some research and found this incredibly thorough and completely confusing website. (click the sentence for the link)
I changed the view proofing setting to Monitor and BAM! There were the ugly colors I see when I upload something online. Ew...ew ew ew. This website said changing my gamma to 2.2 and D65, but I HATE the way that looks and it doesn't help my problem. All the proofing settings look completely different and I don't know what is "right."
What the HECK is happening and how can I get my head around this. Why didn't I have this problem on PC? I am going to go crazy so if anyone has any advice besides "set your profile settings to sRGB" that would be totally awesome, because I seem to have tried every setting on the planet only to discover the same problems and I just want to bang my head against the wall...uncool....
Thanks
Claire
**update: SO! I decided to experiment with work I did in the past, and when I pull up headshots I did on my windows computer they look crazy vibrant, probably too vibrant, I looked on facebook where I have them uploaded how I am used to seeing them and how I like them and when I change to monitor proofing the online looks identical to whats in photoshop and identical to what I am used to seeing. SO it seems like just proofing everything with monitor proofing would be the solution...but how can I make that be the default thing photoshop does. If I have it on monitor proofing when I open up a file it won't actually show it in monitor proofing until I go and select it again.
This is annoying. Is this really that common or is there a better way to approach this? Is adobeRBG the answer? **
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 15:22:59. |
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10/03/2008 03:12:14 AM · #2 |
| It's because you bought a Canon :P |
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10/03/2008 03:41:50 AM · #3 |
| I edit in mac now and had the same issue - have you tried proofing before editing? That is, open, convert to sRGB, view > proof setup > monitor RGB, then proof colors. Then you edit from there (de-uglify the colors) and your final product will be consistent when you export. |
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10/03/2008 07:49:02 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by lovethelight:
if anyone has any advice besides "set your profile settings to sRGB" that would be totally awesome... |
That IS the fix. I think the traditional default profile for Macs is geared more toward printed images than web (Macs were mostly used for desktop publishing before the internet was popularized). An image previewed at default settings in Windows would probably have similar problems if printed on a commercial press. Try changing your color settings to "North America Web/Internet."
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 07:49:27. |
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10/03/2008 07:58:29 AM · #5 |
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but maybe not. It sounds like this is a Save for Web issue like the one I had a while back.
When you tell PSCS3 to Save for Web, the screen pops up with all your Save for Web options. (I use a PC, but I think all the options are the same on a Mac.) There should be tabs at the top of the screen, "Original," "Optimized," "2-Up," and "4-Up." Make sure you're using the "Optimized" tab.
I think "Original" may have been the default, because that's what was being used when Save for Web was driving me crazy - it made the shots look ugly. When I use the "Optimized" tab, I see great improvements in how the photos are saved. Sometimes they still lose a little saturation, but I think that's just because the Web doesn't necessarily display all the colors that Photoshop does.
Maybe this helps?
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10/03/2008 08:36:55 AM · #6 |
When you're editing, try going to VIEW->PROOF SETUP and set it on "Monitor RGB." Then choose VIEW->PROOF COLORS. This way, while you're editing, you'll see what it will look like on the web and you and bump the saturation as necessary, and not be surprised when you see the Save for Web version. (I'm assuming here that this feature works similarly for both Mac and PC.)
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 08:39:02. |
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10/03/2008 08:37:52 AM · #7 |
Howdy,
It really sounds like you're not editing your images in sRGB. Check your editing color space and make sure its sRGB (Open your original image and (on CS) you would go to Image-->Mode-->Convert to Profile and simply check what your "source space" is (hopefully the menu's the same in CS3))
From memory what "save for web" does is removes the color profile. What this means is that any computer/browser connecting to the image won't know what profile the picture originaly used, and will choose the internet default (sRGB). If your picture originally had sRGB, it will look fine, but if it had anything else, then bleeagh!!! The only reason your picture will look fine to you when you save normally is because then you're embedding your profile rather than removing your profile--so your computer knows how to render it. But it gets worse if that's the case. If you're embedding a different profile (i.e. if you are using some other color space than sRGB), your computer may read and interpret the color space correctly, but just about everyone else's computer won't (Just about all windows browsers don't read color profiles). So, while it might look great to you, everyone else will be sitting in their rooms saying "bleeagh" :-)
Check it out, and I may be wrong as I don't use a mac (there may be other issues at play), but I think your problems may just be what color space you use when you do your saves...
---edit:---
Re-reading your original post, it looks like you've done what I've suggested above, if so, there's some other things to check--just let us know :-)
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 09:47:05. |
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10/03/2008 12:41:12 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Medoomi:
Howdy,
It really sounds like you're not editing your images in sRGB. Check your editing color space and make sure its sRGB (Open your original image and (on CS) you would go to Image-->Mode-->Convert to Profile and simply check what your "source space" is (hopefully the menu's the same in CS3))
From memory what "save for web" does is removes the color profile. What this means is that any computer/browser connecting to the image won't know what profile the picture originaly used, and will choose the internet default (sRGB). If your picture originally had sRGB, it will look fine, but if it had anything else, then bleeagh!!! The only reason your picture will look fine to you when you save normally is because then you're embedding your profile rather than removing your profile--so your computer knows how to render it. But it gets worse if that's the case. If you're embedding a different profile (i.e. if you are using some other color space than sRGB), your computer may read and interpret the color space correctly, but just about everyone else's computer won't (Just about all windows browsers don't read color profiles). So, while it might look great to you, everyone else will be sitting in their rooms saying "bleeagh" :-)
Check it out, and I may be wrong as I don't use a mac (there may be other issues at play), but I think your problems may just be what color space you use when you do your saves...
---edit:---
Re-reading your original post, it looks like you've done what I've suggested above, if so, there's some other things to check--just let us know :-) |
I PROMISE my color profile is sRGB and even reassigning the sRGB doesn't help :( |
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10/03/2008 12:43:45 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by OdysseyF22:
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but maybe not. It sounds like this is a Save for Web issue like the one I had a while back.
When you tell PSCS3 to Save for Web, the screen pops up with all your Save for Web options. (I use a PC, but I think all the options are the same on a Mac.) There should be tabs at the top of the screen, "Original," "Optimized," "2-Up," and "4-Up." Make sure you're using the "Optimized" tab.
I think "Original" may have been the default, because that's what was being used when Save for Web was driving me crazy - it made the shots look ugly. When I use the "Optimized" tab, I see great improvements in how the photos are saved. Sometimes they still lose a little saturation, but I think that's just because the Web doesn't necessarily display all the colors that Photoshop does.
Maybe this helps? |
Mine automatically go to the "Optimized" tab and it doesn't make it look any better :( |
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10/03/2008 12:47:57 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by AP:
I edit in mac now and had the same issue - have you tried proofing before editing? That is, open, convert to sRGB, view > proof setup > monitor RGB, then proof colors. Then you edit from there (de-uglify the colors) and your final product will be consistent when you export. |
EXACTLY Do I seriously have to do that every time I edit? Plus is it safe to do that? It will be accurate for the web but what about on other people's computers or printing them? Does that mean I have to go back and re-edit all the photography I have done since getting my mac? BAH!! Do all mac users do this? It isn't automatic either because when I open a photo in monitor RGB it looks the same until I go back and reselect it.
Any thoughts? |
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10/03/2008 12:48:49 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by lovethelight:
I PROMISE my color profile is sRGB and even reassigning the sRGB doesn't help :( |
Reassigning won't do it. Unless your camera is set to sRGB, you need to CONVERT to that profile, and in either case you have to proof in Monitor RGB to see what it will look like online. |
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10/03/2008 01:25:33 PM · #12 |
It is much easier than you make it. And it depends on what you want to "work" your medium for, is how you should set up PS.
I go for print, so I shoot and work in AdobeRGB and then Convert to sRGB at the end of my editing (my preferred way) and when in Save for Web there is that little arrow button (the Optimize button) that has the option for Convert to sRGB in it-check that. I always use 2up to see the difference. Be sure everything else is setup at 100%/Maximum, etc that you want then Save the Settings under the Optimize button again
the easier way, if just working for web, leave Working Profile, etc in sRGB and just set the View/Proof Colors to Monitor RGB (it will stay set). When you want to work the photo for Web, just hit OPEN APPLE-Y and you are in. My experience is you just need to up saturation a little, then convert in Save for Web (with the thing I talked about earlier selected)
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 13:25:59.
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10/03/2008 03:06:06 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by lovethelight:
I PROMISE my color profile is sRGB and even reassigning the sRGB doesn't help :( |
Reassigning won't do it. Unless your camera is set to sRGB, you need to CONVERT to that profile, and in either case you have to proof in Monitor RGB to see what it will look like online. |
Like I said. I SHOOT IN SRGB also. I PROMISE :( |
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10/03/2008 03:08:49 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
It is much easier than you make it. And it depends on what you want to "work" your medium for, is how you should set up PS.
I go for print, so I shoot and work in AdobeRGB and then Convert to sRGB at the end of my editing (my preferred way) and when in Save for Web there is that little arrow button (the Optimize button) that has the option for Convert to sRGB in it-check that. I always use 2up to see the difference. Be sure everything else is setup at 100%/Maximum, etc that you want then Save the Settings under the Optimize button again
the easier way, if just working for web, leave Working Profile, etc in sRGB and just set the View/Proof Colors to Monitor RGB (it will stay set). When you want to work the photo for Web, just hit OPEN APPLE-Y and you are in. My experience is you just need to up saturation a little, then convert in Save for Web (with the thing I talked about earlier selected) |
Everywhere I read says work in sRGB not Adobe. Are they wrong? I am so confused. I have to work for print because that's where my business ends up at but I want to post stuff online and have them look good.
When I simply resize something and upload it to facebook or my printing site it looks awful when the same file looks perfectly fine in DPC. Does that mean when I redo everything to be right for facebook and my printing site it will look ridiculously saturated on dpc? |
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10/03/2008 03:09:29 PM · #15 |
| and also, why did I not have this problem working on windows??? |
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10/03/2008 03:13:02 PM · #16 |
SO! I decided to experiment with work I did in the past, and when I pull up headshots I did on my windows computer they look crazy vibrant, probably too vibrant, I looked on facebook where I have them uploaded how I am used to seeing them and how I like them and when I change to monitor proofing the online looks identical to whats in photoshop and identical to what I am used to seeing. SO it seems like just proofing everything with monitor proofing would be the solution...but how can I make that be the default thing photoshop does. If I have it on monitor proofing when I open up a file it won't actually show it in monitor proofing until I go and select it again.
This is annoying. Is this really that common or is there a better way to approach this? Is adobeRBG the answer?
Claire
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 15:18:44. |
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10/03/2008 04:23:12 PM · #17 |
OK, this may sound ignorant as I'm not famililar with a mac, but what program are you using to view internet pictures (and where are you setting "monitor proofing"?
Then, do you calibrate your display with an external calibration device?
Also, what happens when you are in Photoshop and select macintosh RGB (does this change the appearance of your picture from when you have proofing "off")?
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 17:10:45. |
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10/03/2008 04:37:34 PM · #18 |
Does this thread help. It helped me when I had, I think, the same problem a while back.
Making CS2 Color space (proofing) sticky! (It works for CS3 too.)
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10/03/2008 05:09:11 PM · #19 |
That is interesting, but setting my proofing setup to proof for sRGB makes the photo look exactly how it looks when I normally open it in photoshop. This clearly means that I AM editing in sRGB...
but according to when I opened up some older files, the files looks the way I pant it to when I do Monitor proofing.
Do you think it would be a good idea to recalibrate my computer monitor to make things look the way they should look without setting photoshop to monitor proofing? Why is it when I open up photos in "finder" they look just the way they look in photoshop? (This is a problem because when I edit something using monitor proofing it looks ridiculously saturated when I open it up in another viewing program on my computer)
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 17:15:07. |
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10/03/2008 05:16:33 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by lovethelight:
That is interesting, but setting my proofing setup to proof for sRGB makes the photo look exactly how it looks when I normally open it in photoshop. This clearly means that I AM editing in sRGB...
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How's it look in macintosh RGB? |
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10/03/2008 05:20:23 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Medoomi:
Originally posted by lovethelight:
That is interesting, but setting my proofing setup to proof for sRGB makes the photo look exactly how it looks when I normally open it in photoshop. This clearly means that I AM editing in sRGB...
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How's it look in macintosh RGB? |
It looks just as washed out as it does with monitor proofing, it just is higher saturated in Macintosh RGB.
When I look through photos in Aperture they look identical to how photos look when I open them up in photoshop without using a proofing profile. This bugs me because that means everything I see in aperture is ALSO inaccurate
Is this starting to sound like a monitor calibration problem to anyone? Even if it is though, that doesn't change the fact that what the internet sees is so different from what I see. |
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10/03/2008 05:25:35 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
When you're editing, try going to VIEW->PROOF SETUP and set it on "Monitor RGB." Then choose VIEW->PROOF COLORS. This way, while you're editing, you'll see what it will look like on the web and you and bump the saturation as necessary, and not be surprised when you see the Save for Web version. (I'm assuming here that this feature works similarly for both Mac and PC.) |
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Hi... ok I had the same problem but kinda ignored it... I use CS3 on a Mac... I did the above and it seems to have fixed it perfectly!!! Thanks!
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Now... I have a question... If i edit the pic on monitor RGB, i will look great on DPC website... BUT how will it look when I take it to my photo store and have it printed? will it look like it does on DPC website (the way I edited it) or will it look messed because I have edited it for monitor RGB rather than regular view?? help me out =) |
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10/03/2008 05:26:02 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Medoomi:
OK, this may sound ignorant as I'm not famililar with a mac, but what program are you using to view internet pictures (and where are you setting "monitor proofing"?
Then, do you calibrate your display with an external calibration device?
Also, what happens when you are in Photoshop and select macintosh RGB (does this change the appearance of your picture from when you have proofing "off")? |
I am setting monitor proofing in photoshop. I did not calibrate my display with an external calibration device because I cannot afford one right now and it seems pretty useless to do that on a laptop because everything you see is going to be slightly different because of the angle of the monitor. I calibrated using a calibration program in the mac and my goal was basically make sure that the photography I have done up until now looks how it is "supposed to" on this monitor, which the internet files do. But now I have discovered that opening my older files in photoshop they look over saturated, but look right when I set the proofing to "monitor proofing." |
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10/03/2008 05:33:04 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Shutter-For-Hire:
Originally posted by alanfreed:
When you're editing, try going to VIEW->PROOF SETUP and set it on "Monitor RGB." Then choose VIEW->PROOF COLORS. This way, while you're editing, you'll see what it will look like on the web and you and bump the saturation as necessary, and not be surprised when you see the Save for Web version. (I'm assuming here that this feature works similarly for both Mac and PC.) |
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Hi... ok I had the same problem but kinda ignored it... I use CS3 on a Mac... I did the above and it seems to have fixed it perfectly!!! Thanks!
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Now... I have a question... If i edit the pic on monitor RGB, i will look great on DPC website... BUT how will it look when I take it to my photo store and have it printed? will it look like it does on DPC website (the way I edited it) or will it look messed because I have edited it for monitor RGB rather than regular view?? help me out =) |
Sounds like the best way to figure that out is to just go to a store and try it. My problem is that my photos edited NOT in monitor rgb since getting my mac look great on dpc.
I tried taking a photo and editing in monitor rgb and putting it on dpc::
 This one is united, it is the original file and to me, this looks the exact same as it does in photoshop and Aperture
 I took the picture and edited using monitor rgb to be as close to how it was supposed to look and this is how it looks both in finder on my mac (ugly and oversaturated) as well as on dpc.
so who the heck do I trust?!
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10/03/2008 05:33:15 PM · #25 |
If macintosh's are anything like PC's, the only reason you would see a difference between no proofing and proofing in macintosh RGB is if you are not editing in sRGB :-(
I checked some of the pics in your profile, and they don't have a color profile in them, so it's hard to tell what's happening. Do you have a link to the questionable pics? |
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