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04/04/2008 02:13:17 PM · #1
I'm going to participate on a competition where the rules say (translated):
"The photos submitted must not receive any kind of digital treatment using any programs capable of this task, including but not limited to Photoshop, Corel Photo Paint, Microsoft Photo Editor, etc."

The theme of the competition is:
"We want to see the city on your angle"

The criteria for evaluating the photos are:
Quality
Technics
Creativity

So, what kind of photo should I use to have more chances with?

I'd like to use the basic rule set of this site as a guide line, but even the basic editing is not allowed.

Thanks in advance.
04/04/2008 08:18:30 PM · #2
Your camera may have a vibrant colors setting. My Canon S5 is in the same class as your Lumix and it has that sort of feature. Use that to get your colors as bold as possible in camera.

Message edited by author 2008-04-04 20:18:48.
04/04/2008 09:24:08 PM · #3
My Opinions?
Tall, massive architecture = In Camera Super Sharpening
Village, Rural = Vibrant Color and possibly Soft Focus
04/04/2008 09:35:31 PM · #4
If it is going to be a cityscape or landscape, you may want to shoot in color and B&W, just in case you like one or the other better when you see it on screen.
Ditto on the high color setting.
If you are shooting B&W, you can use the color filters the way we used to do with film to get the sky to look good. A polarizer would help with color shots or B&W for the sky too.
04/04/2008 11:05:13 PM · #5
Shoot landscape (vs. portrait) orientation, unless you camera will auto-rotate portrait images.
04/04/2008 11:29:11 PM · #6
Does this mean you aren't allowed to shoot RAW? Any RAW converter will be doing 'basic' editing, so maybe you have to shoot JPG. :) Get some Cokin filters too if you can. If you can't photoshop, then you want to do everything you can with the camera to set your photo apart from the others.
04/05/2008 09:28:27 AM · #7
Thanks for all the comments...
I think I'm going to shoot some historical architeture of the city, and I will try also some photos including the beach... And then I can choose the better one on the computer screen.
Regarding the RAW images, I think I can get RAW images and this would be my chance to do some basic editing legally.

The photos need to be at least 15cm x 21cm and max 20cm x 25cm (portrait or landscape orientation).
So, another question, if they don't allow any digital editing, will crop, resize and USM be considered legal? What do you bet?

Once I get some of the photos, I will post here to have your opinions.

Message edited by author 2008-04-05 09:31:21.
04/05/2008 11:13:22 AM · #8
From your original post, I would assume that they mean exactly what you said, "No digital editing", which would include all the things that you just mentioned. I think that they want the image printed straight from the camera. If you are submitting prints on photo paper, you can print big, and crop the paper print before submitting it. That would not be digital editing.
I would find out about the question of shooting RAW before going shooting.
04/05/2008 07:21:22 PM · #9
Yes, ask the organisers what is allowed. You may be unnecessarily crippling your own photos by doing no editing, or you might be risking disqualification by doing something as simple as RAW adjustments, depending on how they are going to enforce the rule. I'm sure they will be more than happy to clarify it for you. :)
04/05/2008 07:44:42 PM · #10
Would there be any way of telling if someone did convert from RAW? Surely it's doing the same thing your camera does anyway when it saves in .jpg?
04/05/2008 10:21:15 PM · #11
Originally posted by JimiRose:

Would there be any way of telling if someone did convert from RAW? Surely it's doing the same thing your camera does anyway when it saves in .jpg?


It actually can do a lot more, including basic and some advanced editing. Based on the OPs comments, I would guess that RAW is not allowed.
04/05/2008 10:25:15 PM · #12
are there any writing contests that enforce 'must be written with a #2 pencil on letter paper' sort of rules ?
04/05/2008 10:40:41 PM · #13
Originally posted by Gordon:

are there any writing contests that enforce 'must be written with a #2 pencil on letter paper' sort of rules ?


lol, yes, really.
04/06/2008 01:20:30 AM · #14
Originally posted by mad_brewer:

Originally posted by JimiRose:

Would there be any way of telling if someone did convert from RAW? Surely it's doing the same thing your camera does anyway when it saves in .jpg?


It actually can do a lot more, including basic and some advanced editing. Based on the OPs comments, I would guess that RAW is not allowed.


I also believe they cannot tell for sure if the jpg file has been generated from a RAW file, and neither if the RAW has been adjusted or not... At least, this is what I think, I think there is no meta data on the jpg file telling if the jpg file has been generated from an adjusted RAW file...
Of course if you adjust too much they will be able to identify RAW adjustments with a naked eye, otherwise I think I can go ahead and do the RAW adjustments.

So, mad_brewer, just to clarify, what is the reason that makes you believe that the RAW convertion is identifiable?

Message edited by author 2008-04-06 01:25:07.
04/06/2008 02:06:25 AM · #15
I suppose if you submit a jpg from RAW as an original, they might not have any way of knowing.

Or are they asking you to submit an actual print? If they're asking for a print, it appears to be the honor system, unless they ask for the original for validation.
04/06/2008 09:13:46 AM · #16
Originally posted by mad_brewer:

I suppose if you submit a jpg from RAW as an original, they might not have any way of knowing.


Thing is by submitting a jpg from RAW with NO editing you're shooting yourself in the foot, you lose contrast, sharpness and vibrancy (and a few other things) over just submitting a .jpg generated by the camera.

I have a similar competition coming up soon and I will be entering RAW conversions, too much of my library consists of them to miss out on it.
04/06/2008 11:47:26 AM · #17
mad_brewer, they ask for a print sent to their office and for the original file uploaded on their web site.
So what I'm thinking is to play with the contrast, vibrance and sharpness settings of my camera, and also will shoot in RAW, so I can then do the basic adjustments on the computer. Then, the final jpg would be the one that I generated on the computer from the raw shot, but as far as I know, this jpg is not identifiable as an edited file. Then I would send them a print of the jpg and the actual jpg file.

The only things that I would like to edit, other than RAW conversion, are levels, curves, Neat Image and USM. But as these things will be easily viewable with a naked eye and as the jpg file would have metadata on it, I will not do any other adjustments than the RAW conversion and the settings available on the camera itself.
04/06/2008 11:55:49 AM · #18
Originally posted by marcusvdt:

Originally posted by mad_brewer:

Originally posted by JimiRose:

Would there be any way of telling if someone did convert from RAW? Surely it's doing the same thing your camera does anyway when it saves in .jpg?


It actually can do a lot more, including basic and some advanced editing. Based on the OPs comments, I would guess that RAW is not allowed.


I also believe they cannot tell for sure if the jpg file has been generated from a RAW file, and neither if the RAW has been adjusted or not... At least, this is what I think, I think there is no meta data on the jpg file telling if the jpg file has been generated from an adjusted RAW file...
Of course if you adjust too much they will be able to identify RAW adjustments with a naked eye, otherwise I think I can go ahead and do the RAW adjustments.

So, mad_brewer, just to clarify, what is the reason that makes you believe that the RAW convertion is identifiable?


Are you actually saying that you intend to flout the rules of this contest?
04/06/2008 11:56:52 AM · #19
Originally posted by marcusvdt:

mad_brewer, they ask for a print sent to their office and for the original file uploaded on their web site.
So what I'm thinking is to play with the contrast, vibrance and sharpness settings of my camera, and also will shoot in RAW, so I can then do the basic adjustments on the computer. Then, the final jpg would be the one that I generated on the computer from the raw shot, but as far as I know, this jpg is not identifiable as an edited file. Then I would send them a print of the jpg and the actual jpg file.

The only things that I would like to edit, other than RAW conversion, are levels, curves, Neat Image and USM. But as these things will be easily viewable with a naked eye and as the jpg file would have metadata on it, I will not do any other adjustments than the RAW conversion and the settings available on the camera itself.


... but the jpg created from the RAW conversion is no longer the original though that may not be the definition used by the contest organizers. Who knows how sophisticated their tools are for detecting whether an image was edited or not.
04/06/2008 12:19:37 PM · #20
I could be wrong, but it's my gut feeling they simply worded their rule poorly. I'd guess they are trying to keep people from entering "digital art" with wild manipulations, heavy use of creative filters, and so forth. I'd guess they'd have no objection to what we call "basic editing" at all, and this would include working from RAW.

You need to inquire of the organizers.

R.
04/06/2008 12:24:44 PM · #21
I would shoot something colorful with the use of some filters possibly? Or maybe something with lots of texture. Something that doesn't need to be very sharp to be considered excellent. I would also probably use my sharpest lens (prime maybe) and then do what we do on DPC for the no editing challenges, and use every feature in your camera to create your effects. I bet you will come up with something great.

I personally think messing with the raw file would be manipulation, but you never know. My guess is that the best cheater might prosper.
04/06/2008 07:38:22 PM · #22
Guys, I don't mean to break the contest rules. But the RAW conversion is not really "editing". The camera do the same as the RAW adjustments, but it uses its own processor and pre-defined settings. My camera has some settings for example to increase the contrast, saturation, sharpness... So I want just to shoot as I always do, and adjust some of these parameters. From all the things that I cannot do as I am interpreting the rules, the USM is what I mostly wanted to use. The sharpness obtained with the USM filter is not possible to get with the camera itself.

I strongly agree with Bear_Music, I think they have not worded the rules correctly, and this will slow down the level of the contest.
So what I plan to do is to play with the camera settings and make the RAW conversion, because these steps are what I understand to be legal for this contest. But I still doubt other photographers will not use at least some basic editing on PhotoShop.
I would like to take my picture today, but it is raining and tomorrow is the last day for submitting the photos for the contest. I will hope that the time tomorrow is better and I will try to take the pictures very early, before I go to the work. Let's see how it goes. I'll let you know.
04/08/2008 12:00:00 PM · #23
The photos are submitted. From 3 permitted I could manage to get only 2. Rain, ugly sky, lack of time, it seems everything was not contributing.
Then I got those 2 photos yesterday, 2 hours before the deadline, during my lunch time. I hope they are not too bad since due to the lack of time, I could not even take the photo that I wanted to take.
The photos were just converted from RAW to jpg. Made RAW adjustments during the conversion, also increased contrast, sharpness and saturation on the camera.
Please give your sincere opinion, don't be shy, any comments, even the worst ones are good to learn for the next year.

1-The time does not stop


and

2-Cofee stock exchange


Message edited by author 2008-04-08 12:02:50.
04/08/2008 03:33:45 PM · #24
1 has a bit too much contrast and saturation for my liking. 2 has a great prespective but the background being so white takes away from it a little. Nice detail on it however, and very interesting frame.
04/08/2008 03:43:56 PM · #25
although I like #1 better, I think #2 would have a better chance of winning. I assume the contest wants to put the city in a positive light and I'm not so sure that the construction photo does quite that.
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