DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> "Deadly School Games", What Is Your Opinion?
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 106, (reverse)
AuthorThread
10/24/2007 12:16:37 AM · #1
The "What Is This Pencil?" challenge had the following description:
"Take a photo that has a pencil as its subject. However, the pencil must be used or communicated as something other than a pencil in the photo." (emphasis added)

This was my entry:

“Dangerous School Games”

And this is the story behind it:

I am close to a group of people involved in raising funds and various other activities to campaign against violence and drugs in schools, in the city where I live. A few weeks ago, I was the lone amateur photographer to be invited by these people, along with several professional photographers, to create and propose a compelling image to be used in an upcoming campaign along with concept/slogans like:

"If you think this could never happen to your child, think again!!"
"Protect your children, talk with them about drugs!!"

The image that we envisioned for the campaign would depict a small child imitating a previously witnessed scene where an older child (perhaps a teenager?) was injecting himself; the child in the picture would be using a ‘pretend syringe’ which was going to be his push button ballpoint pen. We discussed the concept with the group and they liked it.

In the midst of the above, the ‘pencil’ challenge came about. I immediately thought of using the concept for the challenge, the only adjustment would consist of using a pencil instead of a ballpoint pen. My hope was that the reason for the shocking nature of the picture would be obvious to my fellow dpchallengers, and, that they would focus on the photographic aspects of it. Now I know that it was wrong in my expectations; only a few appreciated the picture’s merits, most others reacted to it with disgust, as you may see by reading here the 36+ comments posted during voting.

It is possible that a different title (perhaps an exact repetition of one of the proposed slogans?) might have made the intention of the picture more obvious, who knows. I debated within myself, and at first resisted, the idea of requesting its removal, however, at the end, the intensity of emotion and insults it was eliciting were too much and I decided to remove it.

I now start this thread for three reasons: 1) as an explanation (not an apology) to those that were incapable of seeing the picture and insulted it and its creator instead, 2) to receive feedback from the photography point of view, hopefully devoid of the intense emotion that it elicited while it was being voted on, and, 3) To hopefully discuss the role of emotion (positive and negative) inherently attached to successful images and the role of titles in modulating or directing such emotion.

I really like this graphic idea and will present it as a candidate for the campaign posters as is (except with better editing, not limited by the basic editing rules) and would like to point out some of the techniques (and their rationale) used to produce it:

- Use of shallow DOF and adequate camera positioning to avoid revealing the model's identity.
- Lighting that generates dramatic shadows directing the attention of the observer to the arm.
- Use of colors that will not distract the attention away from the arm.
- Convey facial expression, even when the eyes are concealed to make the face not identifiable

Comments welcome. Thank you.
10/24/2007 12:28:22 AM · #2
I agree a title change would have helped, I liked the idea of using "Protect your children, talk with them about drugs!!", I think the image would have scored higher.

I think the photo is well done especially for the intended use.
10/24/2007 12:32:58 AM · #3
I find it amusing that people are always talking about artistic value and deep meaning in their imagery, then wind up being shocked at the merest provocation. Excellent photo, execution, and message, congrats.
10/24/2007 12:41:15 AM · #4
The image was removed from the challenge? I remember my wpl teammate submitting a shot of someone passed out in a bathroom with their arm still tied off after taking a shot of heroin. No removal there.

Anyway, good shot. Nice to see something out of the ordinary and provocative. Should have gone the chopsticks route I guess.
10/24/2007 12:41:22 AM · #5
Originally posted by Louis:

I find it amusing that people are always talking about artistic value and deep meaning in their imagery, then wind up being shocked at the merest provocation. Excellent photo, execution, and message, congrats.


I'll second that.

Newsflash, folks. Kids this young do use drugs. Being offended by this sort of thing doesn't change the fact that there are people out there that couldn't care less whether or not the person they are selling to is 10, 15, 25 or 50. I know kids that started that young... it was a phase for some and theyre fine now, others are dead as a result. Either way, its not the kind of problem that you can just ignore. Props to nutzio for tackling a heavy issue in a shocking way.
10/24/2007 12:44:37 AM · #6
I'm going to leave my comment on the image and in this thread, because I think a permanent record is important on this shot.

I think your reasons for doing the shot are 100% admirable, and I hope they select this. You went for a young kid imitating an older one, and at least one of the commenters got that point (even though it caused confusion).

In the context of the challenge, though, with nothing to go on but the title, you risked anger and you got it.

This is one of those images that really needs context to be appreciated.
10/24/2007 01:01:09 AM · #7
Originally posted by routerguy666:

The image was removed from the challenge? I remember my wpl teammate submitting a shot of someone passed out in a bathroom with their arm still tied off after taking a shot of heroin. No removal there.

Anyway, good shot. Nice to see something out of the ordinary and provocative. Should have gone the chopsticks route I guess.


The image was removed upon my request. There was an insulting comment that I considered too much, bearing in mind my model and other people who helped with this shot could read it in the challenge results.

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 01:02:30.
10/24/2007 01:04:18 AM · #8
I am also going to comment here and on the image:

This is fantastically creative. The composition is top notch, and your execution created an image that is loaded with symbolism and raw with emotion.

To those who were 'shocked and outraged':

We live in an age where children as young as 2 are being sent to see psychologists. Zoloft, Prozac and other 'selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor' (SSRI) drugs are consumed in greater quantities than Advil. Read 'A Brave New World' by Aldous Huxley. Here, I'll even post the link to amazon. //www.amazon.com/Brave-New-World-Aldous-Huxley/dp/0060929871

Don't get me wrong, children should not shoot heroin. But keep in mind that this is art. It is not meant to be taken as a prescription for the day to day life of first graders.
10/24/2007 01:09:10 AM · #9
Awsome photo, many of the older people might be discusted by it, But some of the younger generation have seen this as common monkey see monkey do. The guys i went to school with started doing drugs around 5th and 6th grade. Its a shame to think how could someone so young and innocent commit something so harmful to themselves. Younger childern today are becomming more prone to drugs, being brought up in a family where the older sibling smokes pot, shoots haroin, or drinks every weekend. Who else would a child look up to rather than there own flesh and blood? Some people dont think its possible. This photo, as far as i can say, is just the beginning of an reality we all seem to never want to face. This photo is one that should be put on the front page of yahoo instead of some review of some football game or the latest coolest movie.

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 01:11:19.
10/24/2007 01:10:18 AM · #10
I'm not particularly fond of the shot... but it sorta disgust me that it washad to be removed from the challenge.

Message edited by author 2007-10-25 00:36:30.
10/24/2007 01:13:08 AM · #11
This reminds me of an email i got once about the school shootings. It reads as follows:

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at ?.

Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah, Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamps, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99
Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99
Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99
Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee, California 3/5/01 and
El Cajon, California 3/22/01?

Sincerely,

Concerned Student

-----------------------------------------------------

Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:

I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,

God

----------------------------------------------------------

How did this get started?....
Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained she didn't want any prayer in our schools.
And we said, OK...
Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school, the Bible that says "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbors as yourself,"
And we said, OK...
Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehaved
because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't spank them anymore..
Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children
when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave be cause we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their reasoning...
Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents.
And we said, that's a grand idea...
Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're
going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.
And we said, that's another great idea...
Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.
And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President, does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good...
And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet.
And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....
And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead...
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.
Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 01:25:49.
10/24/2007 01:23:11 AM · #12
Originally posted by Jimbo_for_life:

This reminds me of an email i got once about the school shootings. It reads as follows:


Hi, Christian dude here.

How did you connect that in your head with this conversation?
10/24/2007 01:30:44 AM · #13
I have to say when i first saw this photo it provoked lots of different emotions for several reasons.

I think it was well done and did exactly what was intended. It is very shocking to know that what you have depicted here DOES go on. I'm sure the boy asked questions, and hopefully the answers were provided.

We (as a society) need to stop hiding our heads in the sand and pretending that if we don't talk about things they will go away... talking will make it go away... giving confidence and a solution to a child on what to do if confronted will make it go away... being involved in your child's life will make it go away...

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 01:31:24.
10/24/2007 01:32:23 AM · #14
Originally posted by wavelength:

Originally posted by Jimbo_for_life:

This reminds me of an email i got once about the school shootings. It reads as follows:


Hi, Christian dude here.

How did you connect that in your head with this conversation?


Just a simple, by removing God in our school systems, ok thats fine, lets remove punishment, ok, its now both persons fault. now in my school systems, if your son or daughtor is being bullied, and the bully uses force upon a person, it is both persons fault and they are both kicked out of school for a week up to a month. now days there is no control of what goes on at the school life or home life, parents are legaly not alloud to punnish a child for something they do. as it might hurt them mentaly.
10/24/2007 01:39:11 AM · #15
I was intially surprise by the reaction to this shot.. but on second thought it should have been expected.. People like seeing a lot of stuff glossed over.. Everything isn't happy go lucky in this world and avoiding the grim side of things kind of grosses me out more then the actual concept of this picture.. and we are shunning looking the whole concept cause there isn't any blood and gore for any sensitive veiwers so... everyone's kind of reminding the people who won't talk about aids and it keeps spreading because of people the inability to...well even think about it..

And I'm glad the title wasn't too preachy.. it was very neutral statement and left everything to the viewer..

10/24/2007 01:39:50 AM · #16
There is a girl who lives down the street from my house, a normal girl, her parents were both sent to jail, she lives with her grandparents, but was brought up with her parents for many years, she learned there ways. Now, she has been put into the mentaly challenged group of school, drugged up so she dosnt even know where she is, let alone what she is doing. but it is ok, because she isnt creating mischif anymore. i dont think thats right. i grew up with her. she wasnt that way until the law took it to far and diagnosed here with all these ilnesses, that dont exhist.

ADD or ADHD - is a behavioral condition in which children have difficulties paying attention and focusing on tasks.

a kid will be a kid and not concentrate on one thing, they are out there to explore, they need to release all there energy somehow. I say take a kid with ADHD, let him run around untill he can not stand no more and let him drain his energy. I used to baby sit for a foster kid that had it. I would do whatever he wanted with him. (reasonably) he enjoyed it, i got him to calm down, he wasnt so loud and annoying after i got done with him. the parents couldnt believe it. thats my say on things. i dont want to start a huge fight with everyone. so i am done with the thread

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 01:42:27.
10/24/2007 01:53:33 AM · #17
Originally posted by nutzito:

Comments welcome. Thank you.

Seems like a lot of hand-wringing over nothing. Most of the posts in this thread (thus far) seem supportive of creative freedom and integrity. The image is far less "disturbing" than a macro of roadkill or whatever fake-blood-soaked studio setups I've voted on previously. It's quite obviously an anti-drug use message, and you should be provoked to explain to your impressionable youngsters why the action depicted is bad. I'm sorry that nutzito, in the end, felt self-censorship was necessary.

No te preocupes, companero...sigues haciendo los imagenes que quieres.
10/24/2007 05:26:41 AM · #18
Its an excellent image with a great concept for the challange as well as for creating awareness against drugs. The very fact that many people found it offensive is a sign of success for the image.its draws a quick reaction, it connects immediately and one gets a feel that this kid is doing something what he should'nt. That surely drives down the point that how children get influenced by the happening around them and they try to imitate elders both in positive as well as negative way. Its depicts a very simple and common happening around us when a child tries to take a chalk or pencil and imitate a smoker - harmless in my opinion. Just by 'not' shooting an image and closing out eyes, we can't expect to deal with serious issues.

Message edited by author 2007-10-24 05:27:00.
10/24/2007 05:34:11 AM · #19
The shot will do very well on an anti-drug poster. Its professionally shot and evokes emotion and discussion. I'd say you achieved your goals.
10/24/2007 05:57:59 AM · #20
A very very brave entry into a challenge. I knew he would get hit for it, but at the end of the day the very fact so many people were up in arms showed that this really had the reaction that was intended.

Art is there to provoke feeling and reaction although most of the time, on here, we prefer pretty, beautiful shots that make us feel happy and inspired and I am guilty as charged on that, favouring the voter friendly pretty shot rather than the wrath incurring controversial style. When someone decides to go down this route, you can always be assured that the same kerfuffle will follow.

So kudos to you Nutzito for going with your heart on this one and not worrying about the reactions. (removed calling out here)

Well done mate, and good luck to you as quite evidentally, according to some of the commenters, you are going to burn in hell... see you there!

Message edited by karmat - forum rule #11 >read it under help>site rules>forum rules.
10/24/2007 08:16:04 AM · #21
Originally posted by nutzito:

Originally posted by routerguy666:

The image was removed from the challenge? I remember my wpl teammate submitting a shot of someone passed out in a bathroom with their arm still tied off after taking a shot of heroin. No removal there.

Anyway, good shot. Nice to see something out of the ordinary and provocative. Should have gone the chopsticks route I guess.


The image was removed upon my request. There was an insulting comment that I considered too much, bearing in mind my model and other people who helped with this shot could read it in the challenge results.


So, why not simply ask that the comment be removed as inappropriate?
10/24/2007 08:48:59 AM · #22
I think one of the commenters got it exactly right (without being aware?):

Originally posted by nutzito:

Sam94720
10/19/2007 07:08:43 PM
....
Why would a kid do something like that with a pencil? To imitate something they've seen somebody else do? I'm a bit confused.


I think that's the problem, right? Why do they do it? With a pencil or a needle, what's the difference?

@nutzito: Great you did this, and I am sorry to hear that apparently one (or more) of the commenters got so rude that you had to take the picture back. As to the reasons you mentioned in the OP:

1) I am not sure whether you will convince those insulted, but I appreciate the pic better because of your explanation.

2) I think it is a good picture technically. Great how you strike a balance between the softness of the child and the drama of the situation. Some of the shadows and/or blur in his right elbow pit are a bit distracting and the crop is slightly too narrow on that side IMO.

3) Personally, I like pics that bring about heavy emotions. I am pretty sure that they will hardly ever ribbon, as many people like nice and clean pics, but that's not the purpose. Yes, pictures like these can lead to discussion and awareness, and I think that's a good thing to use your photographic talent for. I also think that titles matter, but I can not think of a more fitting title than the one you gave. You could have made it more explaining or less shocking, but I think that would have dampened the impact.
10/24/2007 09:00:16 AM · #23
I think this is an excellent thought provoking photo and subject. It was well composed and shot. As was said earlier, it did what good art does. It makes a statement, ellicits emotion, shocks, and started a great conversation from many different people on a very difficult subject. Especially those of us with children. Great Job!
10/24/2007 09:26:44 AM · #24
It looks like it was entirely appropriate for your original campaign aim and should do well in getting the message across there.

I'm not that surprised at the reactions to it from the voters here though. Pretty is usually as arty as it gets.
10/24/2007 09:51:27 AM · #25
Don't listen to most of the comments made on your photo! Like many people have said before, people are naive if they think that kids of this age aren't doing drugs. This is a good image and worthy of discussion. It is not worthy of the insults and the extremely rude comments that have been made.

(removed calling out here)

Message edited by karmat - please read forum rule#11-->help-->site rules-->forum rules.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 03/29/2024 03:29:09 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 03/29/2024 03:29:09 AM EDT.