Only those with camera allowed to vote..Trial?

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/04/2007 05:35:41 AM · #6

Originally posted by CraigF:
Might i be so bold as to suggest a trial where only those with cameras can vote.

Well I think this is a good point, but adding a dummy camera is easy enough.So to overcome that members with at least one entry should be able to vote.

littlegett

Canon EOS-20D

04/04/2007 08:02:28 AM · #7

the average score w/out camera, How did you come up with the below average number? How many different user profiles did you use in your estimate?

I have seen the w/out's average vote, below and above. So I am just curious onto how much research you did for this, or if you just based your idea of your own port?

mist

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/04/2007 08:12:17 AM · #8

I'm sure when this has come up before it's been said that users without cameras do not make an overall statistical difference of very much, because there aren't many of them.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

04/04/2007 08:33:25 AM · #9

Originally posted by mist:

I'm sure when this has come up before it's been said that users without cameras do not make an overall statistical difference of very much, because there aren't many of them.

I have an entry with a difference of over 4.7 between with camera and no camera voters. Had it been with camera voters only it would have been a ribbon!

But i'm not bitter or anything. Each to there own and all that...

pawdrix

Nikon D700

04/04/2007 08:51:46 AM · #10

On the flip side...if you own a Mamiya with a Phase One or a Leaf back, does your vote get to count twice???

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

04/04/2007 09:01:50 AM · #11

Originally posted by kevip6:

Originally posted by mist:
I'm sure when this has come up before it's been said that users without cameras do not make an overall statistical difference of very much, because there aren't many of them.

I have an entry with a difference of over 4.7 between with camera and no camera voters. Had it been with camera voters only it would have been a ribbon! ...

How can you say that? There is now way to ascertain the impact of no camera votes to camera votes because the number of votes cast isn't available. It's been my experience that the number of "no camera" voters is usually quite small - I can say that because many times the "no camera" vote avg is a whole number (non fraction) meaning it may have only been one vote.

Shadowi6

Nikon D200

Sigma 10- 20mm f/3.5 EX-DC HSM

04/04/2007 09:04:12 AM · #12

I say we go with only those that comment, thats always a huge increase for me. :)

mbardeen

Canon PowerShot G3

04/04/2007 09:09:30 AM · #13

Evidently statistics don't mean anything...

Let's do some calculations:
Say 400 people with cameras vote, for an average of 6.. that counts for 2400 points.
Say 10 people without cameras vote for an average of 5.. that counts for 50 points.

So overall, the average vote for this photo would be:2450/410 or 5.9756.

Now lets take another case -- that 1 person without a camera votes an average of 1..

So now the average vote for the photo would be 2401/401 or 5.9875 -- only a swing of 0.0125 points -- hardly the difference between a ribbon or no.

The point is that the difference between averages is absolutely useless in making informed decisions unless you know how many of each class voted.

And this concludes the your statistics lesson for today, I hope it's been useful.

Shadowi6

Nikon D200

Sigma 10- 20mm f/3.5 EX-DC HSM

04/04/2007 09:25:19 AM · #14

Originally posted by mbardeen:

The point is that the difference between averages is absolutely useless in making informed decisions unless you know how many of each class voted.

Just so you know you can find out the numbers of each if you work backwards, you know the total average and the average of each type of voter, so it can be done. My top 3 pics had only 6, 7 & 6 Non camera owners vote on them.

So all for mute me thinks

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

04/04/2007 09:30:13 AM · #15

Originally posted by kevip6:

But i'm not bitter or anything. Each to there own and all that...

How do you figure that? Those who sport no camera are usually less than 5 votes on each image. Sometimes it's only one.

Remember, the average score is determined by adding up all the individual votes and dividing by the number of voters. It is not an average of the other stats shown on the image.

ace flyman

04/04/2007 09:34:53 AM · #16

I have a idea, how about the 550 people who entered the Free study who have camera's, vote. Right now I have 119 votes, will be lucky if hits 250 votes the whole week.

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/04/2007 11:47:17 AM · #17

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by kevip6:

But i'm not bitter or anything. Each to there own and all that...

How do you figure that?

It's quite easy, it tells you for each entry the average for voters with cameras?

for instance:

ave with camera: 6
ave without camera: 1

It doesn't matter how many people voted '1' without a camera my average from people with a camera is 6

like i say it doesn't bother me at all i think everyone should be free to vote whether they have a camera or not. Just thought i'd post that it does sometimes make a difference between a ribbon or not.
I think in my case it's fair enough the non camera owner/owners gave me an average of 2 if that's there honest vote

Hope thats clearer now?

mist

Canon EOS-60D

04/04/2007 11:51:58 AM · #18

Originally posted by kevip6:

But it matter entirely how many people were in both of those groups. If 1000 people voted "6" and 1 person voted "1" then you'd get 5.995, but if 1000 people voted "1" and 1 person voted "6" you'd get 1.004.

So the group size determines your finishing average. And I'm fairly sure from previous threads that the group size of users without cameras is "small".

zarniwoop

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2.0D

04/04/2007 11:54:22 AM · #19

So yet again the system must be changed because someone thinks that it will net them higher votes.

04/04/2007 12:00:16 PM · #20

Originally posted by mist:

But the question was to do with voting with camera and without, not the average being made up of both?

So you can see directly how well you would have done against other entries by comparing the ave(with cameras) values and ignoring the overall averages. This is how i can justify the comment i made earlier about the ribbon, as my ave(with camera) is higher then the ribbon winners ave(with camera). Obviously their ave(overall) is higher which is why they got the ribbon and not me.

Just to re-iterate i am not saying this is wrong or unfair and i am more then happy with the position i got. It's just posts are stating that i can't justify a comment like that and i'm explaining how i came to that conclusion.