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11/27/2003 05:02:02 PM · #1 |
... or "digital stock photography challenge". I am totally tired of hearing how this picture or that picture doesn't "meet the challenge". Doesn't meet the challenge in someone's opinion. Opinion, that's all it is. I would think that voters would go with the assumption that if a photographer submits a certain photo to a challenge, in his/her mind it FITS the challenge, even if it's not an "in your face" fit. I am just so tired of everyone's opinion on how something or another doesn't work for their interpretation of the challenge topic. I am quitting for a while (or, "throwing a fit" here).
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11/27/2003 05:16:58 PM · #2 |
Well.. I am astonished to read how many people has mentioned this concept of "stock" photography in the last few days and coincidently with the second kiwi's "double"...
I don't know a lot about dpc and its community but, from a neutral and external perspective, this raising of the "stock" criticism just underlines even more, if it was necessary, the huge achievements of kiwiness in DPC's competitions.
Kiwiness is "just" a better photographer, much better than most of us and he can show it easily. In addition to that, he is also (a bit) lucky because, as in any competition, there are other competitors who could have won but he totalled (twice!!) two first places (!).
I think it makes more sense to mention 'luck' than 'stock'... without forgetting that photography is visual therefore in order to achieve so much.. skills come by far before any sort of luck.
Personally I just recognize that the standards of the so-called 'stock' photography are just (very) sensibly higher than those of the undefined 'non-stock' photography on this site...
And that, as last critic, it cannot be too surprising.. the 'Propaganda' challenge showed quite clearly that the average mind of the public is pretty narrow..
The only thing which could win against 'stock' photography is 'fantasy' (kiwi has both.. and that's why at the moment he is miles upfront anybody else competing here).. but 'fantasy', if nothing else, is quite missing here.. and I am sure that most of you can recognize this crisis.. can't you?
Message edited by author 2003-11-27 17:39:34. |
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11/27/2003 05:29:30 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by uabresch:
Doesn't meet the challenge in someone's opinion. Opinion, that's all it is. I would think that voters would go with the assumption that if a photographer submits a certain photo to a challenge, in his/her mind it FITS the challenge |
As I see it, DPC is about two things
1) Creating technically good photos
2) Conveying your message
I consider a fundamental part of photography getting across a message. If you can't tell a voter how your shot meets the challenge - even when they KNOW what the challenge is - then it WILL get voted down, and to be honest, I think rightly so.
You have some stunning shots uabresch, it's a shame to see you go.
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11/27/2003 05:30:27 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by uabresch:
... or "digital stock photography challenge". I am totally tired of hearing how this picture or that picture doesn't "meet the challenge". Doesn't meet the challenge in someone's opinion. Opinion, that's all it is. I would think that voters would go with the assumption that if a photographer submits a certain photo to a challenge, in his/her mind it FITS the challenge, even if it's not an "in your face" fit. I am just so tired of everyone's opinion on how something or another doesn't work for their interpretation of the challenge topic. I am quitting for a while (or, "throwing a fit" here). |
This site is about challenges - each challenge has a theme and a guideline to follow. What really makes me 'tired' is this - and this is only an example and not directed at any particular photo -
You have a 'challenge' to photograph 'urban landscape'
Then when you go through the pictures you get - a dog/a rose/a baby
Now that's what makes me 'tired'
This is a challenge website - if it is not up to your expectations then maybe a 'rest' will be of benifit to you. Have you tried looking at other photo websites - maybe take a look at
//www.betterphoto.com
I wish you luck and hope you come back 'home' soon
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11/27/2003 05:37:45 PM · #5 |
| Voting without opinions is what your friends and family are for...patting your back and saying "good job." Better done on your own website than on a challenge site where the purpose is to vote based on your own opinion. |
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11/27/2003 05:39:49 PM · #6 |
There's been a lot of talk about Kiwiness being unassailable as a photographer on DPC. Sychophants on this site would claim this, but I think Gary might be a bit embarassed by that (although I haven't asked him) as well as feeling a sense of pride.
What he does is market himself well for this audience. He does what all commercial marketeers, artists, musicians, designers and advertisers do - and that is to tap into what is popular and what an audience cannot easily refuse. This is both a talent and a blight, since Gary himself admitted that taking the 'stock' shots does not stimulate him as much as other, more personal work. That said, some people neither apply the thought nor the effort to produce the kind of work that wins the challenges here.
As a test, look at any of the challenges Gary has won, dismiss the challenge brief then ask yourself is this the best photograph of them all? Possibly not, but it's the one that more people have decided impressively fits the brief - and that's what this site is all about.
It's a game, a competition and a challenge to see who can make their work appeal to the most people - a skill that many don't possess. But it really should be fun and I think people should criticise pics for being off-brief without it being a serious knock to someone's self esteem. |
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11/27/2003 05:44:39 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by uabresch:
I am totally tired of hearing how this picture or that picture doesn't "meet the challenge". Doesn't meet the challenge in someone's opinion. Opinion, that's all it is. I would think that voters would go with the assumption that if a photographer submits a certain photo to a challenge, in his/her mind it FITS the challenge, even if it's not an "in your face" fit. I am just so tired of everyone's opinion on how something or another doesn't work for their interpretation of the challenge topic. I am quitting for a while (or, "throwing a fit" here). |
So what you are saying is if someone farts in a jar, seals it up, takes a picture of it, and submits it to the smell challenge, we should all assume it fits the challenge even though all we see is a jar?
In other words, this is a public contest and is judged by your peers. Your job is to take a photograph that speaks to the challenge. If someone can't see how it fits the challenge, then the fault is in the photograph, not the voter. |
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11/27/2003 05:54:46 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Trinch:
...this is a public contest and is judged by your peers... |
I would say that's not true.. I mean.. I think its a rare case to judge and being judged by a peer..
It is much more likely that there is some unbalance such as judging a better (or worse) photographer than we are and being judged by better (or worse) photographers than we are... |
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11/27/2003 05:56:03 PM · #9 |
Once a teacher of mine said some useful words about beauty contests. If there is a beauty contest, and you vote for the one whom you like the most, she probably won't be the one who wins. If you vote on the one, for whom you think most people will vote on, she can be the one who wins the contest. I think this site is similar.
Uabresch I have seen your photos, and they are really wonderful! You have the gift of talent, and your photos are wonderful. But being very special also means that only a few people will have a wow feeling seeing your photos, who think similar like you. I hope you stay, maybe you need some rest, maybe the coming winter also discourages us a bit.
About kiwiness. I know him and I know the difference between his challenge entries and portfolio shots. Both kind of photos are wonderful, but kiwiness' photos always remind me this sentence from a H. Jackson Brown collection:
"Winners do what loosers don't want to do." (H. Jackson Brown) Don't misunderstand me, others would be a better expression, but H. J. Brown said it this way. I think stepping over our emotions and do what winners do is always very hard. Just think about priorities. What do you prefer? Winning? Doing what you like? Is winning what you like? You can find success if you are satisfied with yourself, in my opinion.
Message edited by author 2003-11-27 18:02:05.
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11/27/2003 06:02:21 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
There's been a lot of talk about Kiwiness being unassailable as a photographer on DPC. Sychophants on this site would claim this, but I think Gary might be a bit embarassed by that (although I haven't asked him) as well as feeling a sense of pride.
What he does is market himself well for this audience. He does what all commercial marketeers, artists, musicians, designers and advertisers do - and that is to tap into what is popular and what an audience cannot easily refuse. This is both a talent and a blight, since Gary himself admitted that taking the 'stock' shots does not stimulate him as much as other, more personal work. That said, some people neither apply the thought nor the effort to produce the kind of work that wins the challenges here.
As a test, look at any of the challenges Gary has won, dismiss the challenge brief then ask yourself is this the best photograph of them all? Possibly not, but it's the one that more people have decided impressively fits the brief - and that's what this site is all about.
It's a game, a competition and a challenge to see who can make their work appeal to the most people - a skill that many don't possess. But it really should be fun and I think people should criticise pics for being off-brief without it being a serious knock to someone's self esteem. |
While this is well said, Jon, and apparently with intend to appease, I am with uabresh when she vents her frustration with respect to everyone's opinion on how something or another doesn't work for their interpretation of the challenge topic. What is particularly annoying to me, is the fact that a great number of these comments and the rightous voting down of meritable photos for topicality, do not draw on half the care that may have gone, precisely, into meeting a challenge. The discrepancy between what is and what is not 'on topic' is occopied by a great deal of ignorance on part of some voters. I have likened the psychology of this as 'mildly reminiscent of a lynch mob's temperament' in another post.
In light of this, I hear what uabresh is saying, and I wish we would take greater note of it than we do. |
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11/27/2003 06:09:14 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
In light of this, I hear what uabresh is saying, and I wish we would take greater note of it than we do. |
Zeuszen, I think it's not you, not me, who would vote down a shot because it doesn't fit the challenge in your or my opinion. I think those who do it, don't even read the forum. I always try to be opened and be tolerant about the chosen subject, and I am sure that a lot of people do the same. But I think those, who would really need to pay attention to this thread, just sit in front of the TV and don't care about forum posts. :-(((
And I don't mean the shots which have completely nothing to do with challenges - dog with the urban landscape -, what I mean are subjective parts of photography - for example grace. Anyway, I like to make comments much more than voting.
Message edited by author 2003-11-27 18:11:51.
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11/27/2003 06:13:18 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by vadvirag:
"Winners do what loosers don't want to do." (H. Jackson Brown) ....Winning? Doing what you like? Is winning what you like? You can find success if you are satisfied with yourself, in my opinion.... |
How wise.. especially in a society which is moving at high speed toward mediocrity like the current one... until Nature will get her bill payed and then winners will be just winners. |
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11/27/2003 06:25:57 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by vadvirag:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
In light of this, I hear what uabresh is saying, and I wish we would take greater note of it than we do. |
Zeuszen, I think it's not you, not me, who would vote down a shot because it doesn't fit the challenge in your or my opinion. I think those who do it, don't even read the forum. I always try to be opened and be tolerant about the chosen subject, and I am sure that a lot of people do the same. But I think those, who would really need to pay attention to this thread, just sit in front of the TV and don't care about forum posts. :-((( |
I'm sorry to agree with you .... |
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11/27/2003 06:27:12 PM · #14 |
| I personally sat out the last 3 challenges cause I was totally uninspired. Why cause I am also tired of certain types of photos winning. I have to agree with the name DSPChallenge. But instead of stock I would change it to Digital Studio Photo Challenge. I really wonder if we were to have a challege that where no studio photos were permitted would we see something different or a different winner? I am planning to enter the next 3 challenges if I can get out of the house tomorrow anyhow I will. |
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11/27/2003 06:32:26 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by onesweetsin:
But instead of stock I would change it to Digital Studio Photo Challenge.
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Wow. I didn't think my winning picture was shot in a studio. Maybe I should go back and check to make sure. |
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11/27/2003 06:40:15 PM · #16 |
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11/27/2003 06:43:22 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
I personally sat out the last 3 challenges cause I was totally uninspired. |
I am in total agreement with your statement Anna...I have sat out quite a few of the last challenges simply because when I saw the titles I just had no clue what to shoot for it. Photographers block I guess. Maybe all of the discontent we are seeing is from the folks that feel that they have to enter every single challenge that comes down the tube.
Take a break folks, sit back, relax, enjoy looking at the othe photos. I know for one thing my voting has gotten a lot higher since I have slowed down and not rushed to throw a shot in the challenge.
And as far as that constant argument about not meeting the challenge comments....My Website Suggestion
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11/27/2003 06:49:57 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by mk:
Voting without opinions is what your friends and family are for...patting your back and saying "good job." Better done on your own website than on a challenge site where the purpose is to vote based on your own opinion. |
Well said |
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11/27/2003 06:58:23 PM · #19 |
And I don't mean the shots which have completely nothing to do with challenges - dog with the urban landscape vadvirag
Hey, I liked that photo. I was the one person that gave it a 10. To me it hit home. I lived in Boston, going to Art School. Saw people with dogs, and some dogs walking alone, some frightened.. If I called to them they would cower away and run off. I looked at that picture and immediately felt the presence of tall buildings. I was the only one possibly. I never vote 1’s or 2’s, and very few 3’s. That’s me.
I don’t know enough about the site to know if things have changed. So I accept things as they are.
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11/27/2003 07:06:01 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by rickhd13:
Maybe all of the discontent we are seeing is from the folks that feel that they have to enter every single challenge that comes down the tube.
Take a break folks, sit back, relax, enjoy looking at the othe photos. My Website Suggestion |
I think you nailed it, Rick. I was just voting in the Aromas/Scents contest and while there were many really great shots there were too many snapshot-ty, off-theme photos in there as well. I agree with you. I don't think people want to miss out on a contest so they run out (if they even leave the house!) to get a shot of anything with little to no thought behind what they are photographing. I haven't entered here yet because I haven't been able to come up with something decent enough to enter. I refuse to just submit a crappy shot of anything to get in on a contest.
And yes, I felt there were quite a few images in the Aromas/Scents contest that did not fit the theme. There are challenges here for a reason. Unless I see even a hint of something on-theme in the photograph, expect a low score. If something looks like a bit of a stretch and I can see something in it that may be considered on-theme to the photographer of the shot then I will vote accordingly - maybe taking a point or two off depending on just how far of a stretch it is.
It also amazes when, for instance, the theme is "Black" and people submit "White" and title the photo "Non-Black" that they still think the image is on-theme. Just because you include the name of the theme in the title it doesn't make it on-theme!!! You can expect an even lower score from me for having it off-theme and trying to sneak it by.
If you get a comment that your photo is off-theme, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. In my opinion, don't let a few comments get you down. The ending score of your photo should tell you exactly whether or not people thought your photo was on-theme. If you get a lot of those types of comments and have a low score, perhaps you misjudged and your photo is indeed off-theme. If your score is good then just dismiss the negative comments. The vote of the majority will prevail.
To those that are tired of seeing the same old people/styles winning all of the time, maybe you need to try harder or try something different? Don't just (as Jacko says) whine about it. Those people are winning for a reason - they are damn good! Step it up a notch and give them some competition. Don't just say you'll never be as good if you haven't even tried.
Edit: Ursula, I love your work and would really hate to see you leave. I hope that you'll reconsider. Maybe sit out a few until you feel better. Please don't go!
Message edited by author 2003-11-27 19:08:45.
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11/27/2003 07:12:38 PM · #21 |
Lets remeber two things.
1) people that moan, are generaly jealous and unable to match the 'winners' standard
2) 95% of the so called 'stock' moaners, think every picture that is sharp and in focus is a 'stock' image.
What is a stock image?
A stock image might be a photograph or illustration, which is stored on a transparency or a digital image. The license to use that image is leased to a company (stock company) which will sub lease it to many, many other companies. The stock company sub license the image for a fee based on usage. A portion of the fee will go to the stock company, the remainder, less costs, will go to the creator.
Thus basicaly, a good image that could be sold is a stock image - it looks nice, advertising bods will want to use it, people may want to have it on their wall etc etc. The good images always win, nothing more than that.
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11/27/2003 07:15:31 PM · #22 |
My opinion for what it is worth is:
When we vote on a image we do not know who the photogragher is Therefore it wins totally on merit.
I think Garys work is amazing and he is a well deserved winner and definately someone who we can all aspire to and aim for.
I also think that a lot of images are very clever but just do not appeal to people out there voting especially when so many people are from different backgrounds. Looking through the comments on mine they are so varied.
I feel I am trying my best and it has definately helped me to achieved better images and thats what its all about. to meet a challenge and even though I would love to be in the top 3 one day I am happy that my work has improved. with the sort of equipment I can afford I feel I am doing my best. Also there are some very helpful and nice people on this site. With really good feedback.
There are also some rude people but Hey thats life.
I entered a photographic competition here in N Z and I got no where I am not so sad about that but for two years running an abosolute crap image has won the sort that is out of focus and no meaning I think a 5 year old could do better so I guess if that is what floats their boat I really will never get anywhere. I will try and upload the winning entry to see if you think the same I think the prize was$2500
Sally
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11/27/2003 07:16:28 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Lets remeber two things.
1) people that moan, are generaly jealous and unable to match the 'winners' standard
2) 95% of the so called 'stock' moaners, think every picture that is sharp and in focus is a 'stock' image.
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First of all the person who started this thread has every right to moan she has earned that right she has won a few ribbons of her own.
Second, if I thought every PHOTO that was sharp crystal clear focus was a stock image I would be rich selling them by now. |
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11/27/2003 07:23:41 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
First of all the person who started this thread has every right to moan she has earned that right she has won a few ribbons of her own. |
And your point is?
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Second, if I thought every PHOTO that was sharp crystal clear focus was a stock image I would be rich selling them by now. |
Hit the nail on the head. Every good image could be a stock image so why is it looked down on so much by some at DPC? |
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11/27/2003 07:26:33 PM · #25 |
My opinion for what it is worth is:
When we vote on a image we do not know who the photogragher is Therefore it wins totally on merit.
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