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12/17/2006 09:55:47 AM · #1 |
i'd like to hear from parents of athletes (youth to college-age) who are not shooting with pro-gear as to what they recommend for shooting sports action both indoors and outdoors, both close and far.
what type of camera do you use?
what do you like about it?
what do you not like about it?
about how much does it cost?
can you post some examples?
i'm asking you, because i can't answer this question fairly when a parent approaches me on the sideline and ask me to recommend them a camera.
thanks!
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12/17/2006 10:04:43 AM · #2 |
| Hard as it may be to believe, I think it's still illegal to shoot kids for sport. |
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12/17/2006 10:07:43 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Hard as it may be to believe, I think it's still illegal to shoot kids for sport. |
LOL....
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12/17/2006 10:17:25 AM · #4 |
Just tell them to check if the model they want has a "sports" or "action" setting. It should do alright for them. I used my Z1 for softball and they always came out great. I never did inside sports with it though. My daughter has been out of school for a while and my son isn't yet interested in school sports.
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12/17/2006 10:45:46 AM · #5 |
Can you shoot indoors with a P&S? My 300D was challenged--I had to use ISO 1600 most of the time with an f/2.8 lens, unless I used a 50 f/1.4, in which case I could use ISO 400, but found speeds limited to 1/125 or slower wide open (in both cases). Oh, yea, no flash used. Imagine if every parent had a 580EX and took a lot of shots :-(
I'd recommend a 400D or 30D (or the Nikon D40 or whatever) with an appropriate lens (f/2.8 or better), depending on how much they want to spend and how much they want to invest in learning a DSLR.
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12/17/2006 11:01:48 AM · #6 |
** Busted post - I didn't read the question correctly. I have a P&S but it's never been the main camera since I have always had a film SLR - Sorry about that.
For outdoors, I use the 70-200f4 and for indoors I use the 85f1.8. Both lenses are really good value - the 85 is a bargain in relative terms.
Edit: My oldest is still young, so the fields are small and they don't care about me sitting on the 3rd base line and such. The indoor stuff is mostly Karate & small gyms so the 85 has enough reach. For older kids, you would need more reach - If I had to pick now, I would go with the 135f2 and a 1.4 extender since it would give me 2 lengths still pretty fast but that is getting pricey.
Message edited by author 2006-12-17 11:06:51.
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12/17/2006 11:17:22 AM · #7 |
I up graded from a 300D to a 20D just for sports. 5 frames per. sec. up to 3200 iso for dark gyms, 1.6 sensor helps outside for more reach. I use 85mm 1.8 for in doors, outside 70-200mm 2.8 or 100-400mm.
Inside 85mm.  
Outside 100-400mm.  |
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12/17/2006 12:28:16 PM · #8 |
One thing that's worth pointing out, Skip, is that the shutter lag on virtually all P&S cameras makes them almost useless for action shooting. Add to that the viewfinder/LCD screen lag and the situation is pathetic. By the time you see it on the screen it is already pretty much over, and then with the shutter lag, it's definitely gone with the wind.
I couldn't even shoot birds in the sky with my Finepix or Coolpix.
Seems to me if a parent wants to get good shots of their kids sporting away, they pretty much have to go the low-end dSLR route at a minimum.
R.
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12/17/2006 02:02:02 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Hard as it may be to believe, I think it's still illegal to shoot kids for sport. |
... yet I'd still recommend a high-powered sniper rifle.. preferrably semi-auto. Little buggers move fast.
Aim for the head, kids are resilient.
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12/17/2006 02:12:16 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
One thing that's worth pointing out, Skip, is that the shutter lag on virtually all P&S cameras makes them almost useless for action shooting. Add to that the viewfinder/LCD screen lag and the situation is pathetic. By the time you see it on the screen it is already pretty much over, and then with the shutter lag, it's definitely gone with the wind.
I couldn't even shoot birds in the sky with my Finepix or Coolpix.
Seems to me if a parent wants to get good shots of their kids sporting away, they pretty much have to go the low-end dSLR route at a minimum.
R. |
I respectfully disagree completely with this. Using shutter priority and burst mode, if you have any clue about the sport you are shooting you can capture great sports images with a P&S. I shoot my tennis team all the time, and have never had any trouble capturing action in any outdoor sport -- or birds in the sky, for that matter.
Inside, it's a bit more difficult because of the lighting situation, but certainly doable for someone familiar with their camera and manual mode.
The key is to know the sport, and anticipate the action. |
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12/17/2006 02:16:34 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I couldn't even shoot birds in the sky with my Finepix or Coolpix.
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I shot auto racing with the Coolpix 8700. Just have to learn to anticipate.
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12/17/2006 02:53:54 PM · #12 |
| I'm in the same boat. I got some decent pictures of my sons basketball game with a D70-had some trouble with white balance. Next game I will use a white card or try presetting it in the gym. I am really thinking very serious about purchasing the Rebel XTI because of the ISO. I am just learning all of this and do not want to invest huge amounts of money. I just bought my second point and shoot last year and I am already wanting to upgrade. I initially bought the camera last year for the sports setting and zoom...realizing I want something better. |
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12/17/2006 02:55:48 PM · #13 |
| What I guess I was trying to say was that I agree with Bear. LOL |
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12/17/2006 03:27:26 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by kelli_K:
What I guess I was trying to say was that I agree with Bear. LOL |
Bear is arguing that it's impossible to shoot action/sports with a point and shoot camera (P&S), and that a DSLR was necessary.
You stated you were having trouble even with a DSLR? (A Nikon D70 is not considered a point and shoot camera.) |
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12/17/2006 03:31:15 PM · #15 |
There are a few very impressive P&S that do fairly well with sports, until you decide to try to do them indoors. High ISO on P&S usually leave alot to be desired. There are some that handle it well but others dont. I think that if your going to get a decent number of keepers from a non professional setup, I'd buy the 30D 85 1.8 and the 70-200 2.8 non is with a 580 flash. This works rather well and is good enough to get a decent number of keepers from.
MattO
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12/17/2006 03:44:40 PM · #16 |
That's the point I was trying to make that I started with a point and shoot...not the quality I wanted. That was the point I was trying to make to the poster of this thread. He may want to jump right into a DSLR. So I am trying out the D70 (which I know is NOT a P&S), but I am really thinking of buying a Rebel XTI. Any thought on the Rebel???
How do you post pictures here? |
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12/17/2006 03:50:20 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by kelli_K:
but I am really thinking of buying a Rebel XTI. Any thought on the Rebel???
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I think the D70 will perform just as well at this sort of thing as the Rebel XTi would.
Message edited by author 2006-12-17 15:50:45.
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12/17/2006 04:10:31 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by L2:
I respectfully disagree completely with this. Using shutter priority and burst mode, if you have any clue about the sport you are shooting you can capture great sports images with a P&S. I shoot my tennis team all the time, and have never had any trouble capturing action in any outdoor sport -- or birds in the sky, for that matter.
Inside, it's a bit more difficult because of the lighting situation, but certainly doable for someone familiar with their camera and manual mode.
The key is to know the sport, and anticipate the action. |
Sure, anything can work fairly well if you know the sport and anticipate the action. But the OP was seeking recommendations for parents who ask him for advice. So I equally respectfully submit that these seekers-after-advice are unlikely to be that sophisticated. There's also another aspect I didn't even mention, which is the autofocus lock speed, which can be pretty slow on the P&S camera. First you gotta find the subject, then lock on it, then shoot, and it all adds up to being more difficult with electronic viewfinders vs optical viewfinders and higher-performance USM motors on dSLR lenses.
R.
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12/17/2006 04:43:52 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by L2:
I respectfully disagree completely with this. Using shutter priority and burst mode, if you have any clue about the sport you are shooting you can capture great sports images with a P&S. I shoot my tennis team all the time, and have never had any trouble capturing action in any outdoor sport -- or birds in the sky, for that matter.
Inside, it's a bit more difficult because of the lighting situation, but certainly doable for someone familiar with their camera and manual mode.
The key is to know the sport, and anticipate the action. |
Sure, anything can work fairly well if you know the sport and anticipate the action. But the OP was seeking recommendations for parents who ask him for advice. So I equally respectfully submit that these seekers-after-advice are unlikely to be that sophisticated. There's also another aspect I didn't even mention, which is the autofocus lock speed, which can be pretty slow on the P&S camera. First you gotta find the subject, then lock on it, then shoot, and it all adds up to being more difficult with electronic viewfinders vs optical viewfinders and higher-performance USM motors on dSLR lenses.
R. |
The "shutter lag" that was so abominable a few years ago has gotten so much better on P&S cameras. It was that lag that makes shooting sports so much more difficult with a P&S camera than a DSLR. P&S cameras are still not on par with DSLR's in that area, but the differences are shrinking. |
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12/17/2006 04:46:22 PM · #20 |
I think that a lot of the higher end P&S cameras will be able to do this. Although bear is right in that the AF speed on those will be a lot slower than a dSLR with a USM (or comparable) lens, it still is very doable. I know that my old Panasonic FZ4 did a great job of this. It had a 35-420mm f/2.8-3.3 lens and almost no shutter lag if prefocused. It also had a high speed focus setting, although this wasn't very desireable since it froze the EVF when you tried to focus. The thing with a P&S camera though is that the DOF is so deep that even if you miss the focus, chances are you'll still have a fairly good shot. I'm also going to assume that these parents aren't going to try and sell prints of other people's kids to other parents, so these images don't exactly have to be spectacular. So while a dSLR is undoubtably the best route to go, for those parents on a budget a high end P&S is still a worthy alternative.
Examples of high end P&S:
Panasonic FZ series
Fuji S series
Sony H2 or H5
etc.
All of those are going to be less expensive than any dSLR and a good lens.
Edit to add: Many P&S cameras now also incorporate some kind of IS system too. Now granted this won't stop motion at all, it still helps with shots for sports like baseball. Many of these cameras also come with a very long zoom, something that you'd pay thousands for in an equivalent dSLR lens.
Message edited by author 2006-12-17 16:48:22.
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12/17/2006 06:05:19 PM · #21 |
I'll admit that it's been a while since I've looked at a new P&S; several years, actually. IF the shutter lag has been trimmed way down, that would go a long ways towards leveling the playing field certainly.
R.
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12/17/2006 06:21:15 PM · #22 |
I also disagree with the shutter lag problem. You just have to learn your camera... I used to use my old HP315 to shoot sports and action, and that had a rediculous AF lag and shutter lag; and yet it was possible...
That said, I think if someone seriously wants to get shots of their kiddos, I'd recommend the entry level dSLR... |
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12/17/2006 06:23:02 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I'll admit that it's been a while since I've looked at a new P&S; several years, actually. IF the shutter lag has been trimmed way down, that would go a long ways towards leveling the playing field certainly.
R. |
It has been trimmed down a lot. For example the Panasonic FZ7 has the following specs taken from this page at dpreview:
High speed focus (half press lag): 0.3s (wide) and 0.5s (tele)
Prefocused lag (half press to full): 0.04 (IS mode 1 or off) and 0.08 (IS mode 2)
Full press lag: 0.5s
As for burst mode, this specific camera can do 3.2fps in 7 frame bursts with 1.7s between bursts to flush the buffer. It can also do a continuous burst till the card is full at 2.3fps.
The only downsides of these P&S cameras is the long time for them to turn on, unlike the instant on time of a dSLR and the fact that you cannot use higher ISO values.
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12/17/2006 06:27:39 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I'll admit that it's been a while since I've looked at a new P&S; several years, actually. IF the shutter lag has been trimmed way down, that would go a long ways towards leveling the playing field certainly.
R. |
Shutter lag isnt really a concern on high end P&S cams, some even have 2.5 fps bursts, however not many that incorporate this can even come close to the AF speed or the High ISO performance that are going to be required. Most times shooting sports for the paper my cameras live on 1600 or 3200 iso. If I shoot a sport at 800ISO I feel really lucky. This meaning indoor sports.
MattO
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12/18/2006 07:47:12 AM · #25 |
THANKS for all the feedback!
let me see if i can summarize this...
1) if you really practice, learn your camera, and understand the sports you are going to shoot, you might be able to make do with just about any camera--or at least get a few keepers.
2) there are some newer and/or higher end p&s cameras that have solved a number the problems people have found with older, low end cameras.
3) if you are still frustrated, try a consumer dslr with entry level glass
4) if you are still frustrated, upgrade your glass
5) if you are still frustrated, try a prosumer dslr
6) if you are still frustrated, upgrade to even better glass
7) if you are still frustrated, try a professional dslr
8) if you are still frustrated, buy a new 300mm f/2.8 IS lens
9) if you are still frustrated, quit your day-job, and put all your time and energy working towards taking sports illustrated quality photos
10) if you are still frustrated, sell all your gear and hire a pro...unless your kid has already graduate college and/or hung up their gear.
i might actually write this up and put it on the back of my business card ;-)
Message edited by author 2006-12-18 08:56:14. |
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