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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Sports photography
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10/31/2005 02:51:24 AM · #1
I would really appreciate some tips on sports photography. I recently shot my first football game, and I'll be shooting again on Friday, and pretty much every Friday for the rest of the season for my work. I've been using the 20D and they're willing to rent me any lenses I want. I shot all of these with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS USM and am going to be requesting a 2x teleconverter as well as a 12-24 wide angle lens for this upcoming shoot. All shots were shot on a monopod, using automatic focus, at f/2.8, 1600 ISO and the shutter speed was 1/100 of second, give or take. I shot about 450 photos and I was "happy" with about forty of them, and here are just some random ones. There were a ton of blurry out of focus shots. Many from not focusing fast enough, and many from the shutter speed being too slow. And some that I was just really unhappy with the composition having to take the photos so fast. You see there are a lot of cut off feet and what not, and that annoys me very much.

So based on what I have here, I'd love some criticism on them, and some help on what to do to get better photos for the next many times I shoot. Thanks so much.

Edited to add: Should probably mention that all images, other than my grain submission, were just auto leveled and sharpened. I think two of them were cropped, so for the most part, these are pretty much the photos as I took them.







My entry in Grain:

Message edited by author 2005-10-31 02:57:41.
10/31/2005 03:57:30 AM · #2
Seriously, I don't care how harsh the comments are. I just needs some so I can impove. Thanks!
10/31/2005 04:50:34 AM · #3
I like the sounds of any lens you desire!! 70-200L IS gets great reviews.

Not really qualified to give you advice. Though I shot a lot through the rugby season here, there was only the one night game. (night game pics) Couldn't believe how difficult it was!! Those pics were taken with my 300D and 90-300 f/4.5-5.6 USM, not a lot of choice.

I found it really depended where I was on the field how fast a shutter speed I got. Ended up spending most of the time down by the goal posts where the best lighting was, trying to focus on faces and the ball. Some of the shots worked, a lot didn't. This was one of the earlier matches I shot, learned to get in closer to the action with later games.

Not sure if you've checked out Alansfreed's port for the greatest football shots.

Just working through your photos ...you've got some really awesome shots there!
10/31/2005 08:03:30 AM · #4
Rent any lens you want?? Get a 100-400, a 300f/2.8 and a 500f/4, that'll have you covered. The only sports i shoot are relatively amateur, and i can get close enough to the action, but even then i've never shot shorter than 100mm - the 70-200 is a nice enough lens, but just doesn't have what it takes for the most dramatic shots imo.

Edit: who's yer daddy! (70-200f/2.8 next to 500f/4)


Message edited by author 2005-10-31 08:05:58.
10/31/2005 02:16:07 PM · #5
I think I'm going to get a 2x teleconverter, so don't really need those first two lenses you suggested as the 70-200 f/2.8 should cover them nicely. But I'll think about the 500 f/4. She shutter speed on my shots was so slow even at 2.8 so I don't know if I could get anything with the 500. Plus is huge! But thanks though, and I'll definitely consider it.

Also, a big thanks to Sue! Thanks so much for the comments you left. I'm definitely going to work on not cutting off people arms and stuff, and if anyone has any tips for better focus, that's why I posted!

I'm desperate, so please help. :)
11/04/2005 11:09:57 PM · #6
Ok you want my advice for shooting HS football??

1) ISO 3200. Learn it, live it, love it. Shoot at the highest shutter speed allowed for a proper exposure. If you can get 1/500th at 2.8 ISO 3200, you're golden.

2) Get long glass. This helps blur that background out, and really helps you get images that let you feel like you're there.

3) Get fast glass. No 4 or 5.6 here. No 1.4x teleconverters. You need as much sharpness and light as you can get.

Rent a 300 2.8 or 400 2.8 if possible. I'd opt for the 400, but some places won't let one out without a big security deposit. a 300 2.8 is more feasible.

If the lighting is REALLY REALLY bad, consider using flash units. On camera flash is usually pretty crappy, but if you set the FEC to -1 or -2, then set it on HSS and shoot at 1/500th or so, you should be ok.

Max
11/04/2005 11:27:41 PM · #7
You may want to check out this link, a friend of mine is a member there, who does great sports photography.
11/04/2005 11:28:24 PM · #8
get a longer lens. I use a 300 2.8 for most of the football I shoot and still wish I had some more reach sometimes. Of course the 70-200 is great especially when you're down by the end zone. Try to avoid chaotic compositions, theres always a lot going on every play, don't try to get it all. Use iso 3200 to get a faster shutter. Being happy with 40 out of 450 is pretty impressive to me. If I were you I would go through them again and throw away like 20 more. I usually shoot about 700-800 photos per game and am like ok with like 10-15, and maybe like a few, and if im lucky ill have a shot or 2 im really happy with. You gotta learn to seperate and find what is best. Also if you have an idea of what you wanna shoot that helps, instead of just trying to capture the chaos that is each down.

here's some shots from a game I did a few weeks ago, I don't have my most recent ones up. To be honest I'm not too happy with my shots but have a look anyways. //www.phphoto.net/illini

Message edited by author 2005-11-04 23:31:10.
11/04/2005 11:37:24 PM · #9
You are going to run into one substantial problem if you use a 2x converter and the game you shoot is at night. The 2x gives you a longer focal range, however it also cuts your light by almost 1/2. it's ok for day games. Try using a fixed 300 with a 2.8 that should get you through most anything you shoot...

Nick...
11/06/2005 01:35:20 AM · #10
Originally posted by nicco2752:

You are going to run into one substantial problem if you use a 2x converter and the game you shoot is at night. The 2x gives you a longer focal range, however it also cuts your light by almost 1/2. it's ok for day games. Try using a fixed 300 with a 2.8 that should get you through most anything you shoot...

Nick...


Yeah, I rented the 2x teleconverter for last night's game and couldn't get a damn thingSo I took it off after a few minutes. I guess it was foolish thinking that it was going to work for me. Oh well.

I think I will get the 300 f/2.8 for the next game. Maybe I'll see about the 400 too. Thanks!
11/06/2005 01:44:23 AM · #11
Originally posted by petrakka:

get a longer lens. I use a 300 2.8 for most of the football I shoot and still wish I had some more reach sometimes. Of course the 70-200 is great especially when you're down by the end zone. Try to avoid chaotic compositions, theres always a lot going on every play, don't try to get it all. Use iso 3200 to get a faster shutter. Being happy with 40 out of 450 is pretty impressive to me. If I were you I would go through them again and throw away like 20 more. I usually shoot about 700-800 photos per game and am like ok with like 10-15, and maybe like a few, and if im lucky ill have a shot or 2 im really happy with. You gotta learn to seperate and find what is best. Also if you have an idea of what you wanna shoot that helps, instead of just trying to capture the chaos that is each down.

here's some shots from a game I did a few weeks ago, I don't have my most recent ones up. To be honest I'm not too happy with my shots but have a look anyways. //www.phphoto.net/illini


Maybe I should have said I was happy enough with them for use on the DVD and for prints they're making. I don't know if I really liked any of them all that much. Heh.

I actually just got the 20D to 3200 for the shoot yesterday, and that helped out tremendously. I'll have to think about what I want to shoot as well, that's a good idea. I've just been going into it and shooting whatever I can.

Thanks for the tips! And you're shots are pretty amazing. I'd love to have one shot as good as any of them.
11/06/2005 01:45:49 AM · #12
Originally posted by caba:

You may want to check out this link, a friend of mine is a member there, who does great sports photography.
\

Awesome, thank you! I'll have to take some time and browse through the entire site.
11/06/2005 01:50:51 AM · #13
Originally posted by PShizzy:

Ok you want my advice for shooting HS football??

1) ISO 3200. Learn it, live it, love it. Shoot at the highest shutter speed allowed for a proper exposure. If you can get 1/500th at 2.8 ISO 3200, you're golden.

2) Get long glass. This helps blur that background out, and really helps you get images that let you feel like you're there.

3) Get fast glass. No 4 or 5.6 here. No 1.4x teleconverters. You need as much sharpness and light as you can get.

Rent a 300 2.8 or 400 2.8 if possible. I'd opt for the 400, but some places won't let one out without a big security deposit. a 300 2.8 is more feasible.

If the lighting is REALLY REALLY bad, consider using flash units. On camera flash is usually pretty crappy, but if you set the FEC to -1 or -2, then set it on HSS and shoot at 1/500th or so, you should be ok.

Max


Thanks so much. I actually did use 3200 ISO this time and it helped out a lot. I got the 2x teleconverter as well, but you're right it was unusable at night.

I've been using the 70-200 f/2.8, but I think I'm going to get the 300 for 400 for next time. How much do you think the deposit is? I know on the 70-200 it was like $1500. My supervisor has been renting it for me, so I don't think I'll have a problem with renting the 400. My only thing though, is that with a 400, I won't be able to get any of the close up stuff. Or for when they get close to me. But I guess that's not all that necessary, because the good stuff happens in the middle of the field for the most part.

I've never really used flash but the lighting is pretty much going to be the same as it is in these photos, as well as the ones I'm going to post from last night. If you think they're bad let me know and I'll consider using the flash. I'll just have to learn it. Thanks so much!
11/06/2005 03:12:39 AM · #14
Use a monopod.

The 400mm will be too long if you're shooting from the sidelines.

Also, if you really can get any lens you want, try something faster such as the 85mm f1.2L, or the 135mm f2.0L. If your patron will pop for it, rent a second body so you can be ready to shoot with two different lenses at all times.

Sigma makes a 120-300mm f2.8 that is said to be as sharp as Canon's 300mm f2.8L; and a 100-300mm f2.8. Either of these will get you all the reach you need with constant f2.8.

Unless you're doing big prints you can crop 20D files a fair amount and still get resolution good enough for 8x10s or the web.

You don't have to shoot at 1/500 to stop the action; 1/320 will do, sometimes even 1/250 works.

If you want to try flash, use a bracket and a EX 550 or 580, not the onboard flash. Remember to remove lens hoods when using flash.

Use AI Servo, Continuous shooting mode, and (only) the center focus point. Shoot .jpg, not RAW.

Carry a CF card and a battery in your pocket, not in your bag. And don't wait `til you get a "Card Full" message half way thru a burst to change cards.

Pay attention to the game clock so you won't get caught behind the end zone waiting to catch that short yardage plunge for a TD head on when the quarter ends and everything shifts to the other end of the field. Shooting the scoreboard after each score and at the end of each quarter is an easy way to record the progress of the game.

If you need to ID the players, try to find the teams' rosters online, you'll have one less thing to worry about at the game. It's the home team's responsibility to make them available for photogs but they don't always do it. As a last resort you can always "shoot the book".
11/06/2005 04:35:57 AM · #15
[quote]The 400mm will be too long if you're shooting from the sidelines.[/quote]

I doubt it. Even at HS game,s you can't walk on every part of the sideline, the team takes up space. So when a team is on their 30, you probably can't shoot from the 50, you'll probably shoot from the opposing 30.

And ya, you could just stay at the 30, but profile shots aren't too good. There's a reason a lot of guys park in the end zone. The action comes right at you.

The 400 would be better, but the deposit on it would be 4000 at least (for the non IS, 6500 for the IS). On a 300, it could be as low as 2400 and as high as 3800.

btw, look at a second body sometime. I usually shoot with my 300 2.8 and then a 70-200 2.8 each on a different body.

If you sit in the endzone and a bomb comes at ya, you can switch over ot the 70-200 fast.

Finally, SS is a great site. I'm a member there
www.sportsshooter.com/pshizzy

Anyhow, if you can't get past a 70-200 2.8, do a lot of shots right at the line of scrimmage. When a team gets in the red zone, try the end zone. head on shots are nice, and you can probably get some nice stuff. Also, if they score, you'll be in good position for some jube.

Max
11/06/2005 05:34:52 AM · #16
You've already got plenty of great advice, but well, I'll give it a shot. I'm an amateur myself but these are the things I've learned the hard way:

1. Leave room for cropping. No more cut legs.
2. Always go for FACES, backs are never as interestings.

Your pictures look GREAT already, and taken the difficult conditions I'd say you did really well. Faster the lens the better, that's all I really can say.

Message edited by author 2005-11-06 05:35:25.
11/06/2005 11:13:32 PM · #17
PShizzy is right on the money on all aspects as far as your gear. For the most part a second and somtimes third body is always a basic course set.

These are my attributes to good sports pix.

1) Don't let lines like fence lines cut off your subject.

2) Pick a desent bg and stay there especially with the shorter lens sets, and let the action come to you. Going high and pointing twords the grass is not a bad idea, just keep any extra people out of the frame.

3) Advertisements in the bg are not a good idea.

4) A sharp bg is not a good idea.

5) crop your image to the action, eliminate unnessiary action especially in football.

6) have all the arms and legs in as much as possble, don't decapitate your players.

7) show the face and the ball so that the story can be seen in the shot. emotion is a major factor in a good sports pix, and having the ball tells the viewer why you picked the action. Always try to tell a story in the pix.

8)Candids are nice, but again, they need to tell a story, so make sure they are unique.
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