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06/12/2005 10:26:42 AM · #1 |
I was at an annual picnic for our astronomy club yesterday and was talking to a guy who has been a professional photographer all his life (30+ years). He insisted to me that professional photography is dying, as well as the businesses that rely upon it. According to him, it's getting to be impossible to make a living as a pro - film or digital - and the apparent boom in digital cameras is really a bust. Nobody except Canon is really making any money, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, etc. are all in trouble and may be going belly-up soon. The film processing industry is obviously shrinking, but he says even with all these P&S types shooting digital, nobody is making prints, so those photographic print-dependent industries are dying as well.
Now I've known this guy for years and he does tend to be a hot-air bag, but is there any truth to his blustering yesterday? Is it getting harder for pros to make a living? Are large segments of the industry tanking in spite of the digital revolution? or because of it?? |
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06/12/2005 10:58:12 AM · #2 |
| I have spoken with a few pros myself and they agree with what your friend said. One fine lady that I know personaly, has been a pro for years. She is a wonderful photographer. She has just recently tried digital cameras and hates it. She prefers film, but her clients want the shots digitally altered with special effects, and would prefer to purchase a disk. She doesn't want to go that route and feels that the pro film photographer is less wanted. |
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06/12/2005 11:28:40 AM · #3 |
| Kind of like the post office going belly up because of email? I don't think so..there are ways around it. |
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06/12/2005 11:33:18 AM · #4 |
I'd have to say he's probably right. It might not be hard for Joe Whoever who has been in the business as a pro photog for 20 years to get clients on a word-of-mouth basis, but it's getting harder to break into the industry.
You aren't going to get a job at the paper unless you want to work for free -- because there are 20 other people in your area that will do it for free just for experience.
Try charging a decent price for a wedding, and they'll try and talk you down. Don't forget...everyone has a brother, cousin, uncle, sister, or someone who knows someone with that nice, shiny new canon rebel or nikon d70. Think about it. There used to be one option, but now with the general weekend-warriors shooting with 8MP digital SLR cameras, half-decent glass, and the same flashes that the pros use, everyone's willing to give them a shot.
That's just the way it is.
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06/12/2005 11:34:48 AM · #5 |
And I'd like to add that most of the time, those weekend-warriors are producing better shots than some of the pros...and understandably so.
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06/12/2005 11:36:16 AM · #6 |
The boom of consumer digital cameras certainly has and will continue to impact the professional photography industry. The phenomenon, IMO, is a bit strange, but some people and businesses will settle for lower quality images for their needs for several reasons. The two main reasons are time and money. A business can produce an 'acceptable' image for a lot less money and in a lot less time if they do it themselves with their own camera equipment. I see it happening around here every day.
As a comparison, my mother used to own and operate her own typesetting business. She started in the mid 1970s and ran it until the mid 1990s. As personal computers became commonplace in home and business, people could do their own acceptable quality typesetting without paying a 3rd party to do the work. As laser and inkjet printers progressed in quality, her $100k typesetting system quickly became obsolete. I actually helped my parents haul that system to a dumpster when they closed shop because the system had zero resale value and it was only about 7 years old at the time.
The cycle will continue like this with photography. There will always be a market for the professional photogrpaher, and they will need to evolve in order to stay in business.
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06/12/2005 11:49:58 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
There will always be a market for the professional photogrpaher, and they will need to evolve in order to stay in business. |
I agree. Professional photography as it was may be dying but it's simply being reincarnated as the new version of professional photography. This means that as older processes are pruned away new ones replace them. Specifically, similar to how for the family snapshooter, the old drive thru Kodak booths were long ago replaced by the one-hour stores, professionals will find online services or smaller regional printers for special-type needs. Additionally, software to process pictures is continuing to evolve with special filters etc.. And when it comes to wedding photography, it used to be that only those that could afford to pay a high quality photographer could record their event appropriately. Although I've done a few "free" weddings, I haven't taken money out of a pro's pocket as their couples were strapped for cash and mostly like would've just gone without or, in ages past,would've have said cousins/friends who had a decent film camera do it. I believe pro photography is simply evolving, and the beautiful thing is that the camera is everywhere; gecause of that, we all win. No matter, I say it's half-full.
edit: spelling
Message edited by author 2005-06-12 11:53:12. |
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06/12/2005 11:52:22 AM · #8 |
I suspect, like any new technology, it circumvents alot of the traditional learning associated with a craft and brings in a whole new set of challenges. I recall employing a "graphic artist" for a project I had going and this guy hand drew logos etc. What he did with a pencil can now be replicated on a computer and marketed to a much broader audience. His profession was not eradicated but rather morphed itself into something with a whole new set of possibilities. I expect photography will be much the same. I have a video handycam and have not put Speilberg out of work yet. Sure, I can press a button but I clearly do not have the ambition to become extraordinary in that form of "art". Thank goodness for the advent of digital photography as it will enable a fresh new set of talent to pursue this wonderful art and master this new "digital skill" .......... well ............ for those select few who will continue to pursue it. As time goes along, a greater number of our digital cams will be placed on the shelf alongside the Sony Handycams.....
and Speilberg will still be working.
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06/12/2005 11:54:10 AM · #9 |
I have to admit, I'm one of those 'weekend warriors' that only began to take photography seriously again because I had a little Canon A40 that would show me my pics instantly.
I obviously preferred going to the dark room in my high school days and seeing the print evolve in the D-tray (the memories give me goosebumps) but I could no longer afford the time/money to pursue my hobby in that way.
With digital, I decided I could get back into this and here I am with an SLR and likely going to school for Photojournalism next year...all because of digital. Will it be tough for me to find a job?
You bet! But I can't complain, I'm the 'type' of person that has made it difficult for the market. As John says, we need to adapt.
Think video. Even if you don't want to.
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06/12/2005 11:58:54 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:
I have to admit, I'm one of those 'weekend warriors' ... |
I think 95% of this site is comprised of the same type.
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06/12/2005 12:04:27 PM · #11 |
What we're seeing is a leveling of the playing field, basically. John's mom's typesetting business is a good parallel, as he says. When she broke in, the only way to get proifessional-quality results, from a technical perspective, was to apy a pro to do it, basically. Then the computers got better, the desktop publishing software got better, the desktop printers got better, anyone with a PC or a Mac and the right software could produce acceptable camera-ready art with type in it, including useable separations for spot color work.
But there are still professional designers, at all 3 levels; high end, mid-level, and low end. Even low-end designers can make a living at it, because they provide a convenience to their customers. They just have to abandon any delusions they have as to the high value of their work.
Ditto with photography; not all that long ago you simply could not GET "professional quality" results without investment in some high-end equipment, and any photographer who was able to purchase the equipment had a built-in market for his product, basically. As the quality of film went up and the cost of good cameras came down, more and more people were able to afford to enter the arena, as it were, and the competition heated up.
What we're seeing now, with digital, is that just about anybody, with a little study and a halfway decent eye, can produce results adequate to the needs of most buyers of photography. So the distinction of "professional", as it were, is becoming blurred. It's getting harder and harder for the average practitioner to earn a quality living in this field.
Even so, there will always be a market for truly exceptional work whatever the field. This you can count on. And new markets are opening up, as well; right now, anyone can SHOOT, but not that many people can post-process professionally. Those that can are in demand.
Robt.
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06/12/2005 12:08:27 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by fotolady:
I have spoken with a few pros myself and they agree with what your friend said. One fine lady that I know personaly, has been a pro for years. She is a wonderful photographer. She has just recently tried digital cameras and hates it. She prefers film, but her clients want the shots digitally altered with special effects, and would prefer to purchase a disk. She doesn't want to go that route and feels that the pro film photographer is less wanted. |
I think pros that refuse to go digital will have a hard time staying in the business. There is just too much focus on (and so many advantages to) digital photography. |
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06/12/2005 12:09:58 PM · #13 |
Well, our old buddy Darwin's idea applies to the photo industry too. Either adapt or fade away. Things are never static: change is constant and inevitable. Sucks if your on the downward cycle, but it's just part of life. On a side note, I personally think that some professional photographers were ripping people off anyway. Let 'em sweat it out...
Message edited by author 2005-06-12 13:01:25.
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06/12/2005 12:15:27 PM · #14 |
These kind of things happen all the time. Just look at what happened to the horse versus car. Not too many people use a horse carriage to travel anymore.
It is all about being smart and adopting the new wave, making it your own, and pushing it to the next level. You can't affect what people want, they will always want the newest and the best. You just have to go with that and find your niche, just as many other companies have done to go forward.
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06/12/2005 12:17:21 PM · #15 |
| I don't get it I do very little to advertize aside from my online business card and a banner on the local city website and get all the business I can handle. Most of it is word of mouth were someone gives me a call referred from someone I worked with in the past or someone who bought from me from an event I shot. I find myself with all the work I could ever want and on occassion hoping for some time off.. I was hoping to be off today to hang out and relax but last night around 9:00 I received a call from a local woman needing head shots of her 2 daughters, Ill be on site in the next 2 hours... I believe people that are looking for professional results will continue to seek professionals. |
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06/12/2005 12:21:15 PM · #16 |
Photography is a hobby to most that are involved, just like golf. Millions will do it for free, but only a few that are exceptional will make a living at it.
As higher end equipment becomes more easily available to the hobbiest, the pros will need to prove their worth to continue. In the past, simply having the right gear and knowing how to use it made many people a pro.
If given the same gear, budget, models, locations... several people here could do just as well as most that call themselves pro.
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06/12/2005 12:26:06 PM · #17 |
Right now is a time of huge change...technology advances, people switching from film to digital, etc. Whenever there's a period of huge change, it's also a period of huge chaos. It's probably too early to predict with accuracy what it will be like in the next few years or decade.
The guy who does my product photography does tell me that pro photographers are dropping like flies, at least in his area. One of the problems right now is that a lot of people that go out and buy dSLR's suddenly assume they are photographers. Their pictures might suck, but they've got the equipment so they give it a shot, and now their friends and relatives also assume they are good and hire them to do work that in the past they would have hired a pro to do.
Since this is DPC and things are taken literally, let me cut you off and say yes, I know some amateurs have tons of talent and not all pro's are good and worth the money. Personally if I needed someone to take portraits of my loved ones, I'd want to fly in Librodo, pro or not.
Maybe in a few years when the excitement of digital photography begins to fade a bit, people like myself will realize how much we suck and start hiring people with talent again.
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06/12/2005 12:37:35 PM · #18 |
I see somewhat the same thing happening in my business of real estate. It's so easy now for the consumer to get information that was previously most easily accessed by a Realtor. We get much more of "we want to see THIS house" and less of "help me FIND a house." People don't call about properties because they don't want a sales pitch. No more luggin around of huge listing books...instead you take a laptop with access to the Multiple Listing Service along and can bring up information right there...and email and fax information instantly.
It's a new mindset...BUT...people still use Realtors who have adapted to the new mindset. My clients are generally much more knowledgable (or have just enough to make them dangerous) and expect much more than clients did even 10 years ago. Unfortunately, they also expect to pay less for more services. That's just the way it is. And like photography (I think) it's up to the business owner to decide what you're worth. Am I a Realtor who simply hopes and prays any commission will come through? Or do I charge a retaining fee because I provide the best service available and I know some will pay fo that? Do I jump to show a $100,000 house instead of going to my kid's game? Or do I thank them for the call and arrange to schedule the showing during business hours?
Okay...enough rambling. You can tell I'm sitting here bored today!
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06/12/2005 12:37:44 PM · #19 |
I know a guy who owns an established company that does printing work. They were THE place in my area of a million people to do your film developing and printing. The only comperable places were in Philly and New York. As of this year he has completely switched to digital processing and has had to let a lot of his staff go. He is close to many pro photographers in the area and he has told me that the photography business is certainly getting smaller, and he's never seen so many people get out of the business than at this time.
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06/12/2005 12:50:26 PM · #20 |
Well I want to say two or treedifferent things about this thread:
I gess your've heard it well. there were a few stores and photographeres that rely treir business in prints and revelations. Probably if they did so they wheren't much of a photographers after all.
And I've talked last year with an important business man from photographic retailer and enery brand was disapointed about the profits of digital photography. Everyone's buying cameras, every brand has got awsome qualaty printers and no one's usisng labs for prints anymore... At least not has they did when using film. In USA digital camera sales where a boom a few years ago, and the brands think that europe is going to do that in the next few years also. So a lot of more "weekend warriors" are comming up. So be prepared!
And if everyone (or a few anyway) with prosumer (or other) cameras think they are pro's and are starting to do weddings for friends and parties for cousins, wouldn't be to expect even more from pro's, to marck a bigger difference? If so why there are so many so called pro's what are doing such a laugsy job and are so relutant in changing to digital? Yes my friends, this kind of pro's will find themselves out of business quite soon.
This was the main reason why I thought to take a pro actitude with my photos. Yes I don't have the money for a minilab, or for a D"X has I would love. But does that makes me less of a photographer? If I can deliver top knotch job and the clients are more than happy isn't this a pro actitude and job? Or is it by having your own lab and top glass but don't hjave the mout important tool of all: a photograhic brain.
Yes Darwin was right: the evolution of spicies. Some Homo Sapiens sapiens evoluted to Homo Sapiens photgraphens. Some will give birth to a new subspicie, the Homo Sapiens photgraphens digitalis, and the other will regreed to the former Homo Sapiens. Not all can evolute to a photographoc brain, althoug they are holding top dollar cameras and glass.
Just had to say this. Sorry for your time and the long post.
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06/12/2005 12:59:25 PM · #21 |
Video could kill off stills, at least when it comes to photojournalism, within the next ten years.
The decisive moment is obsolete once you can take high quality video. Shoot a sequence, freeze frame, capture it, print it. The few photojournalists I happen to know are shooting bursts most of the time. For them, the decisive moment is already a non issue. Most expect to be moving to digital video once the quality gets high enough.
I think there will always be those who stick to the still camera, but many, if not most professionals might opt for the coming change.
Message edited by author 2005-06-12 13:00:02.
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06/12/2005 01:03:07 PM · #22 |
I have found that if you do great work, then the work will come to you. I did two weddings this Spring, and that is about all I wanted to do. I just wanted to make some money to pay for equipment I had bought. I now have six weddings booked by word of mouth. I really don't want to do that many weddings, but I'll keep doing them and see what happens. It would be fun to make enough money consistently to earn a living, but I'm a long way from that. For now, I will have fun with what comes my way. If I continue to do great work, then the referrals will keep coming. I just think it's great that people want to pay me to 'practice'!!
JD |
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06/12/2005 01:26:59 PM · #23 |
I went to the wedding of my best friend and I was so disapointed with the work the photographer did that I decided to do it... And also has smellyfish1002 to pay for the equipment. If I want to continue after it... let see, for for know, I would love to live from it.
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06/15/2005 12:13:42 PM · #24 |
| YOur friend needs to wake up and develop a business plan! I am a pro and doing quite well! Sounds like a confidence problem! |
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06/18/2005 10:35:16 AM · #25 |
I've been around a few pros in the nature photography field. While the stock business is changing - royalty free images have lowered the amount of money photographers can expect from stock photography, people can still find a niche if they take high quality photos. Also the pros have many ways in which they make money - selling prints, stock, classes, photo tours, writing, etc.
On another website, I've seen figures on how much money you can make with wedding photography - and I was amazed at how much you can charge.
But you have to adapt - and photographers that don't want to go digital and spend time in photoshop will at some point have difficulties in this new environment.
And competition is stiff - so your work really has to be good enough to compete. |
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