Warning to my fellow American Photographers

04/16/2005 12:19:36 PM · #4

As unsettling as it was to the photographer and his family it is good to know that homeland security is around and active. Seems like they did go too far with this though.

photodude

04/16/2005 12:19:59 PM · #5

As distateful as all of this is, it sounds like your friend should have sought legal counesl before as much as speaking with any of these people. The Patriot Act for all its zealotry, did not take all of our rights away.

As for the big picture, I will keep saying this to anyone who will listen. If we want to be safe we need to stop taking our own rights away and start taking away the rights of our enemies. Our enemies are the citizens of hostile nations - which are for the most part the Arab and Islamic ones. For example, Saudi Arabia is not our ally or friend and a large swath of their population would participate in or support harm being done to us.

Therefore, we need to stop letting citizens of hostile nations into our country. That means no more tourist or student visas. Did we let in German and Japanese tourists during WW2? We didn't try to seperate the good Germans from the bad ones did we?

Its time to restore our rights and take theirs away.

hdogg4u

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

04/16/2005 12:20:50 PM · #6

Really what can we do. Anyone to write to in matters of such not only does you time get wasted but the common reply is "we are just trying to avoid another 911" "We are trying to make safety for everyone".

The problem here is a) the person that made the suspisious call should have just asked him what he was doing but today people want to the hero and take things a step further. When I photograph certain things like lighthouses or bridges I make sure if there is anyone around to let them know what exactly I am doing because or else they assume and things escalate.

I think if I had been him I would have signed over with an attorney all my stuff and have them search everything. If you contest them then it just gets worse but rather you have to just play there game with there rules. Hope for the best and move on.

TLL061

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/16/2005 12:24:26 PM · #7

I would like to know what kind of pictures he was taking , I'm sure he didnt just walk buy and take a snap shot , sometime you have to use your head and not take pictures of securty areas . I am not doughting what you heard , but there always two sides of the story ,

aronya1

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

04/16/2005 12:32:33 PM · #8

This story has all the earmarks of an urban legend, starting with the line "A relative of one of my wife�s co-workers..." Not questioning YOUR motives in posting it, hyperfocal, but it does sound a bit exaggerated, even if we assume it has a grain of truth.

Nelzie

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/16/2005 12:37:25 PM · #9

Originally posted by camelotnorth:

As unsettling as it was to the photographer and his family it is good to know that homeland security is around and active. Seems like they did go too far with this though.

I would rather live with the possibility of Terrorists blowing up my entire neighborhood everyday, then to have to give up any of my civil liberties provided to me by The Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

Seriously, where will all of this stop? What if with all these 'extra powers' another Terrorist event occurs? Do we then allow the government to create even more surveilance? What happens if those measures don't prove effective? Do we then give up even more of our rights?

From what I have read and heard regarding the 9/11 commission reports, the Clinton Administration took immediate action upon hearing about potential terrorist threats, made the law enforcement and spy agencies work together and succeeded in stopping a few threats before they happened. The Bush Administration ignored the same kind of threats and only reacted, after the terrorists were succesful in their operations.

Most of the time, we don't need new laws and new government powers in order to provide security, all we need is to use the tools and laws we already have in place.

hyperfocal

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 105mm f/2.5 AIS

04/16/2005 12:47:47 PM · #10

Originally posted by aronya1:

I have meet this lady at several company events, and let me tell you she is as right-wing as you can get so I really don�t think she would embellish the story at least in the direction you imply.

TLL061

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/16/2005 01:04:00 PM · #11

wow , robert thats deep . I hope you never see any terrorism on your farm , but here in thre real world i think there doing a great job , never felt safer , you know here in the real world , oh yea get over it gore lost

aronya1

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

04/16/2005 01:04:33 PM · #12

Originally posted by hyperfocal:

I have meet this lady at several company events, and let me tell you she is as right-wing as you can get so I really don�t think she would embellish the story at least in the direction you imply.

First off, I just want to say that I'm not accusing anybody of anything. Not trying to start a flame war.

But, when you say that she's as right-wing as you can get, that sets off alarms for me. Anybody on the extreme of any position tends to be over-zealous in their actions, descriptions, etc. Often, they don't even intend to be that way.

I was just pointing out the extreme nature of the story, and the fact that they usually don't pan out to be as dramatic as first told. Let's HOPE she (or whoever told HER the story) is exaggerating.

aronya1

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

04/16/2005 01:05:49 PM · #13

Originally posted by TLL061:

Thank you for that. I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that reaction.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/16/2005 01:06:04 PM · #14

I would think the news media would be all over this, but Google searches come up empty...

-Terry

TLL061

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/16/2005 01:08:24 PM · #15

I bet robert lives on a farm with cows , not that there is anything wrong with that , but they not bombing his farm

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

04/16/2005 01:18:03 PM · #16

Here's a couple interesting articles from NYI, The New York Institute of Photography;

//www.nyip.com/tips/special_report1004.php

//www.nyip.com/tips/topic_firstslr0404.php

These articles would not appear to be exaggerated. At some level these things ARE happening, regardless of the verifiability of the particular story in this thread.

Robt.

DaveN007

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

04/16/2005 01:25:47 PM · #17

Welcome to the world of law abiding citizens who believe that the Second Amendment means something.

***********

"I certainly support people's rights to take pictures of their family- in their own homes, of course. "

Telephoto lens? There is no legitimate purpose for a lens that allows remote surveillance of a target. Only law enforcement and the military should have telephoto lenses.

We must tax, restrict, then ban private ownership of these Terrorphoto lenses.

Zoom ratios over 2X must be banned.

Flash? You have no business taking pictures in the dark.

Memory cards need to limited by law to 32MB. 32 1 MB pictures is a reasonable limit.

We need to get SLR- "Assault" cameras off our streets. There is no legitimate reason to have a camera that can take 25 fully automatic pictures in seconds.

(Cut to heavyset, slightly dorky looking guy wearing a MILITARY-esque black vest crammed full of photo gear...zoom in on the three camera bodies dangling from his neck.)

First we must ban the Canon DO concealable "Cop Shooter" lens.

Tripods? They were designed by the military as machine gun mounts. Ban them.

Everyone can have a 1 megapixel instamatic. Period.

************

Now you know how I feel.

nsbca7

04/16/2005 01:30:53 PM · #18

Originally posted by photodude:

Therefore, we need to stop letting citizens of hostile nations into our country. That means no more tourist or student visas. Did we let in German and Japanese tourists during WW2? We didn't try to seperate the good Germans from the bad ones did we?

Its time to restore our rights and take theirs away.

Sounds like some over racist shit to me. How many terrorist attacks have there been on US soil in the last 15 years? What percetage of them have been perpetrated by forigners or Muslums? Think McViegh and Ruldolf. Niether sound too Arab to me. And those two are just the tip of the iceberg as far as domestic terrorism goes.

dragonlady

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

04/16/2005 01:35:32 PM · #19

I was going to photograph some construction workers on a courthouse nearby for the "People" challenge, but I noticed as I parked across the street that there were police cars and surveillance in that area..I figured that it would be wise to forget that idea and go elsewhere to avoid being arrested.

Message edited by author 2005-04-16 13:36:08.

hdogg4u

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

04/16/2005 01:37:51 PM · #20

After reading the 2 articles by Bear. How are we as amature photographers supposed to get a valid ID. Yeah you have your drivers license you have your social security but so do the terrorists how can we differeniate ours.

Maybe a dpc club card that has all our information that can be accessed by govermental officials if needed.

DaveN007

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/16/2005 01:53:55 PM · #21

nsbca7-

I visited your website and enjoyed your photographs. As a father of 3 daughters (ages 2, 4, and 7) I am inspired by your images of "Beth".

Regards,

Dave Nicholson
Monkey with a Camera

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

04/16/2005 02:00:04 PM · #22

Originally posted by dragonlady:

Or go over and tell them you have a photo assignment, but that you don't want to interfere with any case they're working on while you're taking some photos of this public project.

mcrochip

Pentax K20D

Tokina AF 28-80mm f/2.8 AT-X 280AF Pro for Pentax

04/16/2005 02:00:22 PM · #23

Anyone who takes the time to think about basic security would understand why this surveillance took place. Should it have been reported? Maybe - I know neither the circumstances nor the full story (and I agree that this probably more urban legend than reality). But, consider this... every day on the Metro (DC Subway system), announcements are made ad infinitum reminding passengers to keep track of their personal belongings, and to remind people who may forget a bag at their seat or report said bag to the motorman of the train. Is this to keep the system from getting cluttered? No - it's because worldwide activities have included people leaving exploding bags (think Palestine).

The bottom line here is simple... people who take a lot of pictures of major infrastructure might be very interested photographers. But they might be taking those pictures to use in planning an attack. Police in DC will ask people to move along if they take too many pictures near the entrance of a Federal Government building. Do we as photographers have a right to take pictures of these buildings? Yes, of course. But this has, in the past, led to people being followed and injured at home. The best thing to do, IMO, is let someone know what you are doing. If they ask you to stop, by all means, stop.
-Steve

DaveN007