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01/07/2005 01:15:11 PM · #1 |
Hi all,
I have a photo that I put in my profile -- that I now deleted -- that I would like to enter into the Best of 2004. Question is -- is it okay to do that considering I got 48 views in the last 10 or so days?
Thoughts??
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01/07/2005 01:16:35 PM · #2 |
I think most people are expecting to have seen some of the photos before, I think it's fine to enter a shot previously in your portfolio.
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01/07/2005 01:17:54 PM · #3 |
I'm entering a photo from my profile, and I'm not deleting it either. It's probably not too hard figure out which one. Go for it.
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01/07/2005 01:21:03 PM · #4 |
I've just hidden mine from my portfolio, not deleted it, so I can keep comments and Favs after the challenge ends.
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01/07/2005 01:27:05 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Konador:
I've just hidden mine from my portfolio, not deleted it, so I can keep comments and Favs after the challenge ends. |
Wish I would have done that before I dumped my whole portfolio just prior to the increase in size.
Lost 30 favs by doing that.
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01/07/2005 01:29:33 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by BradP:
Lost 30 favs by doing that. |
Big deal. You'll make that up in a week. |
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01/07/2005 01:46:13 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by BradP:
Lost 30 favs by doing that. |
Big deal. You'll make that up in a week. |
nuh uh...
But we'll see after the Best of 2004.
 to thee!
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01/07/2005 04:36:07 PM · #8 |
Again the anonymity of the challenges takes a hit.
Putting in an already-seen photo is risking the wrath of voters who respect the spirit of keeping your identity secret and letting the photo make it's own way in the world of dpc. I guess some people think it is to their advantage to make it a popularity contest.
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01/07/2005 04:59:27 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I guess some people think it is to their advantage to make it a popularity contest. |
Are you suggesting that there is some sinister plot or trend to undermine anonymity? Those who might benefit from being recognized are largely the same people who would score well anyway, so I doubt that would be a rationale for showing an "pre-viewed" shot. How would we ever deal with a self-portrait challenge?
When you take a photo that you're REALLY proud of, but doesn't fit a challenge, it seems only natural to want to share it with those who would appreciate it most- your extended DPC family. I'm sure anyone who chooses a photo from their portfolio would have been just as content to keep it a secret if this challenge were known ahead of time. Since non-challenge portfolio photos were not excluded by the description, I'd consider the possible lack of anonymity within a small percent of the group as a Special Rule for this challenge. |
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01/07/2005 05:03:04 PM · #10 |
i had no choice but to enter one out of my portfolio...
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01/07/2005 05:21:38 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Again the anonymity of the challenges takes a hit.
Putting in an already-seen photo is risking the wrath of voters who respect the spirit of keeping your identity secret and letting the photo make it's own way in the world of dpc. I guess some people think it is to their advantage to make it a popularity contest. |
Harvey, I know you value anonymity very highly but I struggle to see how we can avoid breaking that with this challenge. I have thought long and hard about what to submit to this challenge, or whether to submit at all. I have a non challenge pic which sits in my portfolio with 600 views and 30 favourites which would probably tell me that, by the wording of the challenge, that`s what I should be submitting.
However, I`ve decided against it and gone with an older shot, which I happen to prefer but it`s still been seen many times and favourited fairly often.
Unless you were lucky enough to take a great shot recently that you have never uploaded to DPC then the only choice you have is to sit the challenge out because someone might recognise your best non challenge shot of 2004. Considering the restrictions this places on folks, then the challenge would really struggle to live up to it`s billing.. "Best of 2004".
All I can say is that the image I`ve submitted has never been on my profile page as one of my favourites and is now hidden until the challenge is over.
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01/07/2005 05:27:00 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
i had no choice but to enter one out of my portfolio...
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Heh :) |
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01/07/2005 05:41:04 PM · #13 |
I really can't make up my mind -- I can't decide even for myself what my best photograph of 2004 is, let alone what is the best thing to enter here. There are a few shots that have had good reactions here from being in the portfolio, and in simple terms of scoring a choice from those would make sense ... but there are a couple of others, and one that's never been seen anywhere, that I'm tempted to enter - except that I know they'll get pasted in the voting.
Decisions, decisions ...
E |
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01/07/2005 06:14:29 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Again the anonymity of the challenges takes a hit. |
Again?
Originally posted by coolhar:
Putting in an already-seen photo is risking the wrath of voters who respect the spirit of keeping your identity secret and letting the photo make it's own way in the world of dpc. |
Wrath away man. Forget the spirit of voting each entry on it's merits if it makes you feel better.
Originally posted by coolhar:
I guess some people think it is to their advantage to make it a popularity contest. |
Who? That's quite a wild accusation and I'd love to know what you've based it on. |
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01/07/2005 06:31:24 PM · #15 |
there is no rule on this site that says your photo must be anonymous. Its a courtesy that keeps the spirit of this site going. IF you have a shot you wish to enter, go for it. How much you'd like to protect your anonymity is up to you!
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01/07/2005 08:44:27 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Are you suggesting that there is some sinister plot or trend to undermine anonymity? |
No, I don't think there is any plot, no organized conspiracy. But I do think there a lot of us who don't repect anonymity. And not just the newbies.
Originally posted by geewhy:
Harvey, I know you value anonymity very highly... |
You are absolutely right about that Gordon. But don't you also? Shouldn't everyone here?
Originally posted by bod:
Again? |
Yes, again bod buddy. And still, and repeatedly. Like every time someone PM's a reply to a comment during voting. And like every time someone posts in the forums calling people who have chosen to take advantage the new option to keep their identity secret on their comments a name like headless wonders or phantom commenters. And like every time someone enters repeatedly with the exact same border, or some clue in their titles, or yet another picture of their kids/pets that we have seen before, or a picture of their computer screen showing their dpc profile page on it. Anonymity takes a lot of hits.
Originally posted by bod:
Who? That's quite a wild accusation and I'd love to know what you've based it on. |
I'm not going to say names, you could guess as well as me. But it is based on my very unintentional and very casual observation of forum posting. There are some in every group that seek to curry favor from there peers by obsequious means.
Originally posted by frisca:
there is no rule on this site that says your photo must be anonymous. Its a courtesy that keeps the spirit of this site going. IF you have a shot you wish to enter, go for it. How much you'd like to protect your anonymity is up to you! |
Please don't take it personally, for it is not intended to be a personal criticism, but it is disturbing to see a SC member valueing anonymity at the level of a courtesy and leaving it's protection, or lack thereof, to each individual. It really is more important that.
I really like dpc a lot. It is different from other sites primarily for it's educational value. You can learn lots here by reading, and asking questions in, these forums. But the thing that makes this site different from so many others is the challenges. They are the tie that binds the community if you will. Lots of other sites have various types of photo competitions but I haven't found any that have 1) the winners selected by the general population rather than a panel of judges, or some other unknown method; 2) anonymity as in you don't know who's entry you are evaluating when voting & commenting; and 3) a secret ballot -- no one knows how you voted on their entry. These three things are what make our competitions so much more open, honest and fair. I think anyone who has much experience at other sites would agree.
The importance of anonymity is such that it should not be trivialized, but rather enhanced at every opportunity. I think that it is important that we discuss it in the forums to help emphasize the point for the constant flow of new users. I think that if we don't speak out about it, and, inded, speak up for it, the value of anonymity will gradually diminish and we'll be sorry before we know it's gone.
Of course I realize that images will be re-used for the Best of 2004 challenge, give me credit for that. But must we repeatedly ask permission to do so in the forums instead of using a PM to a SC member if we are in doubt? And instead of making a public announcement could'n someone just quietly move a shot from viewable portfolio to hidden and then enter it discreetly?
There are lots of things that are not against the rules here but at the same time are harmful to the community. I, for one, am getting sick and tired of seeing posts that condone, and even encourage, such activity. There will never be rules to cover every possible situation. Many times we just have to rely upon our collective self to do the right thing. Just because something is not specifically prohibited by the written rules doesn't mean it is an ok thing to do.
Message edited by author 2005-01-07 20:54:21. |
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01/07/2005 09:10:57 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
...Please don't take it personally, for it is not intended to be a personal criticism, but it is disturbing to see a SC member valueing anonymity at the level of a courtesy and leaving it's protection, or lack thereof, to each individual. It really is more important that. .. |
Harvey,
Frisca was simply stating the truth about the site rules. There is no rule in existence that prohibits users from posting their entries on other sites prior to the end of a challenge. that said, I agree that the anonymity is a VERY important part of the site, and we should work hard to preserve it.
For this challenge, many photos that we'd consider our "best of 2004" might have been posted to our portfolios, and so I would say that this is a special case. I am fighting with the same decision, since I've posted many of my best either here or on my Pbase account. I do have some others that I'm considering as well, but it sure is a dilemma, LOL. I'd prefer anonymity, but am coming to the conclusion that I will enter the best photo I have regardless of whether it has been previously "outed". I expect to see alot of recognizable photos in this challenge, and it will be a mit more difficult to be objective, but I'm up to the challenge :)
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01/07/2005 10:00:29 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by bod:
Again? |
Yes, again bod buddy. And still, and repeatedly. Like every time someone PM's a reply to a comment during voting. And like every time someone posts in the forums calling people who have chosen to take advantage the new option to keep their identity secret on their comments a name like headless wonders or phantom commenters. |
The only way to stop this is to take the PM system and the forums away. Some people will always get hot-headed when they receive a critical comment. The best, no, the only way to deal with it is to ignore the PM's and ignore any name calling in the forums.
Originally posted by coolhar:
And like every time someone enters repeatedly with the exact same border, or some clue in their titles, or yet another picture of their kids/pets that we have seen before, or a picture of their computer screen showing their dpc profile page on it. Anonymity takes a lot of hits. |
I have put a name to an entry many times in the last 2 years for various reasons:
NEVER because of a border.
Occasionally because of a repeated subject.
MANY times because I recognised a particular style.
So what do you do? Ban borders? Ban using a pet or person more than once? That gets rid of the small percentage, now what do you do about style?
100% anonymity is an impossibilty.
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by bod:
Who? That's quite a wild accusation and I'd love to know what you've based it on. |
I'm not going to say names, you could guess as well as me. |
Actually, I couldn't. *shrug*
I think you've picked the wrong challenge to raise this around. I'm lucky in that I didn't post a single non-challenge photo to my portfolio all last year, so I can use my best shot and not worry about what you think.
To expect others to not use their best shot because they have shown it off is absolutely ridiculous. How were they to know 6 or 9 or even 12 months ago?
It's just one challenge. I intend to enjoy the change, and what should be a most excellent line up of entries. Then I'll go back to enjoying the normal challenges. I just don't see why it's such a big deal. |
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01/07/2005 10:05:44 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
For this challenge, many photos that we'd consider our "best of 2004" might have been posted to our portfolios, and so I would say that this is a special case. .... |
Agreed. It is a special case. And my apologies to fresca if my post was offensive, t'was not intended.
I have discovered a side benefit to this challenge that pleases me no end, a silver lining. It is forcing me to go thru a lot of old shots and I am deleting many that should have been deleted long ago. My hard drive was getting pretty full and starting to slow things down; and this was accelerated by my new 8 meg marvel.
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01/07/2005 11:06:36 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by bod:
MANY times because I recognised a particular style |
Not that I've tried but I haven't done that yet.
Originally posted by bod:
I think you've picked the wrong challenge to raise this around. ... |
I raised the point more in response to some forum posts (in this and other threads) than in response to the challenge. I'm just seeing too much of the "if it's not against the letter of the rules it's ok, let's go for it" attitude. That kind of thinking sets a bad example and erodes the quality of the site.
I'm sure you'll find a shot worthy of entering, hope I do.
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01/08/2005 12:43:12 AM · #21 |
I can see the problem regarding anonymity but... I have one photo that I took in 2004 that stands above all the others and that's the one I'm going to submit. And I know people have seen it and can identify it. But it's the best one I took and I am submitting it... I don't expect a ribbon but I do want to put this photo as I really like it. :) Ann
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01/08/2005 04:06:17 AM · #22 |
My best picture of the year won't win anything.But I still submitted it because of the way it makes me feel. It will probably rate about a 3. But oh well.
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01/08/2005 04:41:27 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Are you suggesting that there is some sinister plot or trend to undermine anonymity? |
No, I don't think there is any plot, no organized conspiracy. But I do think there a lot of us who don't repect anonymity. And not just the newbies. |
Being a newbie, should I feel offended by this comment??? Are newbies notorious for their disrespect of anonymity? Is it a given that we newbies are prone to such undertakings??? Just curious, and wondering if perhaps I had managed to fail to adhere to the prescribed behavioural patterns ascribed to newbies.
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01/08/2005 07:06:37 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by geewhy:
Harvey, I know you value anonymity very highly... |
You are absolutely right about that Gordon. But don't you also? Shouldn't everyone here?
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My quote was merely an attempt at trying to let you know that I thought I understood how you were arriving at your opinions on what should happen in this challenge Harvey (even though I didn`t happen to agree)
What I or anyone else should value, would probably be best discussed in a separate thread as it would no doubt hijack this one.
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