Create a more detail scoring system

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

01/09/2011 06:48:08 AM · #1

The current scoring system leaves too much room for individual interpretation which results in a lot of crappy scores.

<< (BAD) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 (GOOD) >>

I look at this scoring system and see a score of 5 as avg. You may think a 5 is a good score and 3 is avg.
I think if the marks were defined better it would assist people in providing a more accurate grade and result
in less complaining of overall scores.

something like this:
<< 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 >>
(1) Worst 1 (2) Awful (3) Bad (4) Below avg (5) Avg (6) Above Avg (7) Excellent (8) Outstanding (9) Awesome (10) The Best 1

If the grading system is defined somewhere and i just haven't seen it, i would suggest it be added into the voting area so people see it while casting votes.

If you dont like this idea, i have another 1. Any vote casted of a 1, 2 or 3 must have a comment added to justify the score. So when i select a 3 score, instead of moving on to the next photo, a comment screen pops up forcing me to justify my marks with a comment. Same for a score of 8, 9 & 10. Just a thought anyway.

Message edited by author 2011-01-09 06:50:14.

see

Canon PowerShot S95

01/09/2011 07:23:45 AM · #2

No matter where average is, there will be complaints. Nobody likes to think themselves average.

raish

Olympus C-2500L

01/09/2011 07:37:50 AM · #3

with an iq of 100

Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM

01/09/2011 07:53:28 AM · #4

I disagree. We all know when we submit a avg photo. At first glance we sometimes think it is a good entry but the more you look at it and with feedback from your peers, you eventually agree that it was indeed a avg photo to enter.

People dont like to think their photos are below avg and without the feedback, they may never understand why they recd the low marks.

The current score chart leaves it 2 open for a avg range of between 2-8. My avg score may be a 6, yours could be a 3. If avg were defined as a 5 the scores would be more evenly awarded. My opinion anyway.

LN13

Canon EOS-60D

01/09/2011 08:04:22 AM · #5

The existing scoring system seems to have been working just fine for the past nine years. Why fix something that isn't broken?

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

01/09/2011 08:08:25 AM · #6

If I was forced to leave comments that would deter me from voting. Or if I still really wanted to vote and a comment box popped up what would stop me from putting just a character or number in the comment box and moving on? So say I voted something a 3 and a comment box popped up, I could just type "h" and move on so it really does nothing besides cause me a couple extra key strokes.

01/09/2011 08:17:10 AM · #7

Originally posted by larryslights:

The existing scoring system seems to have been working just fine for the past nine years. Why fix something that isn't broken?

Yes, by all means, if its not broke lets not try and improve on it and make it better.

Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM

01/09/2011 08:20:33 AM · #8

Originally posted by jminso:

I see what your saying. So maybe a bullet type format where you select a option such as say "Out of focus" in addition to having the ability to leave a comment. You could select from 5 of the most common mistakes, make your selection and move on to the next photo.

LN13

Canon EOS-60D

01/09/2011 08:40:21 AM · #9

Originally posted by JarHead:

Originally posted by larryslights:
The existing scoring system seems to have been working just fine for the past nine years. Why fix something that isn't broken?

Yes, by all means, if its not broke lets not try and improve on it and make it better.

What will it accomplish? An average score will still be an average score. A 50th percentile photo will still be a 50th percentile photo.

Forcing comments? It would be nice to know why people score low (or high), but over time, even if you know that you have a pretty decent shot, there will be 1, 2 & 3 votes. It's just the way it is. Heck, I'd rather get comments from those who grade my decent (in my eyes) photo as average, to get an idea of what I may have missed.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

01/09/2011 08:45:43 AM · #10

Originally posted by larryslights:

Originally posted by JarHead:

Originally posted by larryslights:
The existing scoring system seems to have been working just fine for the past nine years. Why fix something that isn't broken?

Yes, by all means, if its not broke lets not try and improve on it and make it better.

What will it accomplish? An average score will still be an average score. A 50th percentile photo will still be a 50th percentile photo.

Forcing comments? It would be nice to know why people score low (or high), but over time, even if you know that you have a pretty decent shot, there will be 1, 2 & 3 votes. It's just the way it is. Heck, I'd rather get comments from those who grade my decent (in my eyes) photo as average, to get an idea of what I may have missed.

It obviously would take me a long time to explain how a detailed grading system works better then a non-detailed one to you. I'm 2 lazy to do that at this time.

raish

Olympus C-2500L

01/09/2011 09:01:51 AM · #11

Originally posted by JarHead:

It obviously would take me a long time to explain how a detailed grading system works better then a non-detailed one to you. I'm 2 lazy to do that at this time.

I'm too lazy to make comments

LN13

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM

01/09/2011 09:23:54 AM · #12

Originally posted by JarHead:

Originally posted by larryslights:

Originally posted by JarHead:

Originally posted by larryslights:
The existing scoring system seems to have been working just fine for the past nine years. Why fix something that isn't broken?

Yes, by all means, if its not broke lets not try and improve on it and make it better.

What will it accomplish? An average score will still be an average score. A 50th percentile photo will still be a 50th percentile photo.

Forcing comments? It would be nice to know why people score low (or high), but over time, even if you know that you have a pretty decent shot, there will be 1, 2 & 3 votes. It's just the way it is. Heck, I'd rather get comments from those who grade my decent (in my eyes) photo as average, to get an idea of what I may have missed.

It obviously would take me a long time to explain how a detailed grading system works better then a non-detailed one to you. I'm 2 lazy to do that at this time.

Do you comment on all of your 1, 2 & 3 votes?

You don't need to answer, because I think I already know.

see

Canon PowerShot S95

01/09/2011 09:39:15 AM · #13

Years back I was a bartender, we served Budweiser both out of the tap, and in bottles. On occasion we ran out of bottled beer. The bottled beer customers in most cases would rather go elsewhere rather than drink tap beer. The same could be said vice versa. Sometimes the customer would explain the reason of their preference, but most times they just left. Bottle beer a 10, out of the tap a 1, both produced out of the brewery the same. Here, a perfect water drop verses a blurry reflection of a full moon on a pond in a water challenge, the reaction to both strong in voting. You like blur, you create a blurry full moon on a pond, does it really matter user X feels there is nothing to focus on. I like Budweiser off the tap, if the keg runs out, most times it is reason enough to leave without comment..

VitaminB

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

01/09/2011 09:51:55 AM · #14

"Fixing" the scoring issue is probably the most suggested issue on this site.

When I first got to DPC, if you voted 1, 2, or 3, it asked you to leave a comment. That didnt work all that well, so it was scrapped. I dont see it working now either.

As for putting a definition by each number, I would let each member do that themselves. Everyone has a different definition of that good and bad photos are, so let them define what the scoring system should be. I dont want to be constricted to giving a 3 to a bad photo, because I might still like said bad photo. Also, what if I want to give out more than one 10?

I prefer the simple scoring method we currently have in place.

fotomann_forever

01/09/2011 10:18:33 AM · #15

All that is needed is 3 points

1(You suck) 2(You're alright) 3 (You rock).

:)

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

01/09/2011 10:32:19 AM · #16

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

All that is needed is 3 points

1(You suck) 2(You're alright) 3 (You rock).

:)

You forgot the -5(technically great photo but I vote nudes low)

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens

01/09/2011 10:42:51 AM · #17

Originally posted by VitaminB:

"Fixing" the scoring issue is probably the most suggested issue on this site.

When I first got to DPC, if you voted 1, 2, or 3, it asked you to leave a comment. That didnt work all that well, so it was scrapped. I dont see it working now either.

As for putting a definition by each number, I would let each member do that themselves. Everyone has a different definition of that good and bad photos are, so let them define what the scoring system should be. I dont want to be constricted to giving a 3 to a bad photo, because I might still like said bad photo. Also, what if I want to give out more than one 10?

I prefer the simple scoring method we currently have in place.

I'm confused. The photo is being judged by you so how could you think its a bad photo yet still like it?

I wasnt here at the time where comments were asked to be left on 1, 2 or 3 grades so i dont know why it didnt work.
All i know is most effective grading systems are defined instead of just random number selections.
e.g. schools give grades A-F based on a defined avg score. Employee evaluations work on a scale of 1-5 with each grade defined from unsatisfactory to outstanding.

I just believe a undefined grading scale of 1-10 leaves too much room for a undeserved fluctuation in scoring.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

01/09/2011 10:53:41 AM · #18

Originally posted by JarHead:

...
I just believe a undefined grading scale of 1-10 leaves too much room for a undeserved fluctuation in scoring.

The average between 1 and 10 is 5.5. No one can vote 5.5, so one must choose whether the image is below average (5, or lower) or above average (6, or higher). The detail in the score comes from a couple hundred decisions like this. It works very well.

Everyone is entitled to their own voting scale.

David Ey

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

01/09/2011 11:13:49 AM · #19

Score JH'd idea.

Excellent
Pretty Good
Not So Good

rooum

01/09/2011 11:24:59 AM · #20

Originally posted by JarHead:

I'm confused. The photo is being judged by you so how could you think its a bad photo yet still like it?

I like bad art and good art. Nothing in between thanks. The worse you can do is average and non interesting art. Urgh.

It's often through the cracks that the light shines through.

Message edited by author 2011-01-09 11:29:40.

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

01/09/2011 11:29:07 AM · #21

Originally posted by JarHead:

... All i know is most effective grading systems are defined instead of just random number selections.
e.g. schools give grades A-F based on a defined avg score. Employee evaluations work on a scale of 1-5 with each grade defined from unsatisfactory to outstanding.

I just believe a undefined grading scale of 1-10 leaves too much room for a undeserved fluctuation in scoring.

School grades are based on a student getting an answer to a question right/wrong with a mathematical formula applied. Get 19 out of 20 right, you have 95% correct and a grade of 'A'.

With photography, any attempts to "grade" stringently are going to fail because of the subjective nature of what photography is: Art. Rarely will you find two people that will see a work of art the same way. Even alleged "rules", such as rule-of-thirds, leading-lines, symmetry, framing, etc... are subjective in evaluation by different people. Because of this, you are not going to find a set "grading/scoring" scale that will fit the needs of everyone.

All of the above doesn't factor in an important player in scoring yet either, and that is likes/dislikes. For some people likes/dislikes can, and will, influence what score is given a challenge entry. Maybe not by a lot (could be a 5 instead of a 6)... but it's still a "factor" that a grading system is not applicable to.

Then you also have the challenge subject/description influence. A HUGE can of worms that's been debated over and over and over... Very subjective for many as to what fits the challenge or not, and meeting the challenge is one of the considerations when voting according to the Challenge Rules/Voting Rules/Voting Guidelines here on DPC ("...consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly.").

Voting is never going to be a neat and simple process that's easily defined and structured.

see

Canon PowerShot S95

01/09/2011 11:30:07 AM · #22

Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:

[quote=JarHead]I'm confused. The photo is being judged by you so how could you think its a bad photo yet still like it?

I don't like water drop, wine glass, ect. should I vote it low because I don't like it?