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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> My RAW files are being altered by LR
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10/27/2010 03:45:33 PM · #1
My newest camera's raw format is only DNG. I realize after reading another thread that the SC will allow DNG files as long as this is what the camera produces natively.
BUT... as soon as my files are imported into LR the metadata status says that the files has been changed. Does anyone know how to 'protect' these files? I don't have an independent exif viewer so I'm not able to test if my backup DNG is 100% unaltered and usable as proof for DPC.
10/27/2010 03:51:26 PM · #2
The best way to test is to submit a ticket to the SC and ask if they can "validate" some test files for you. Submit one directly off the card, and one that has been imported and adjusted in Lr. They will tell you if there is any problem.
10/27/2010 04:56:01 PM · #3
That's what you get for buying subpar equipment from some unknown brand. I mean what is this "Leica M9" thing? ;-)
10/27/2010 05:16:40 PM · #4
Typically LR stores all its updates in sidecar .xmp files and does not touch the original file. DNG is a special format, though, and maybe LR does something different with them.
10/27/2010 06:05:42 PM · #5
Thanks guys. I'll submit a couple of test files.

Scarbrd: the Leica M9 is just some cheap junk I picked up for nostalgic reasons. DPC hasn't even bothered to have a picture of it in their database. ;)
A coworker saw it today and thought it was one of those gag cameras that sprays water when you squeeze a bellow.
10/27/2010 07:07:22 PM · #6
Originally posted by TrollMan:

Thanks guys. I'll submit a couple of test files.

Scarbrd: the Leica M9 is just some cheap junk I picked up for nostalgic reasons. DPC hasn't even bothered to have a picture of it in their database. ;)
A coworker saw it today and thought it was one of those gag cameras that sprays water when you squeeze a bellow.


Pretty pricey for a gag camera!
10/27/2010 07:36:03 PM · #7
Originally posted by Artifacts:

Typically LR stores all its updates in sidecar .xmp files and does not touch the original file. DNG is a special format, though, and maybe LR does something different with them.


true

in the last challenge i processed in photoshop and brought into lightroom for cropping and size export.

i wanted to go back and make changes to my original and resubmitso i just edited the original and the changes show up in light room, so i just had to export the right size. i didnt need to re-import.

12/21/2010 10:24:11 PM · #8
You're correct about Lr writing the changes to the .DNG file itself. There is no sidecar file.

Perhaps the easiest option, which may be a workaround, is to leave the .DNG files on the camera or copy them to a backup location during the Import process both of which are selectable options from the Import dialoge. I'm sure with the former option, at least, the original would stay intact.

On another note, there is a check-box in Lr (Edit -> Catalog Settings -> Metadata tab) to "Automatically write changes into XMP."

(This is in contrast to the manual option "Save metadata to file." in the Metadata pulldown menu, which you would use as needed.)

If you do the automatic, it may take slightly longer for each little update as you work, but the changes are made on the fly as you work.

Finally, even though this setting makes it seem like it's adding a .XMP to a .dng, it's still embedding it in the .dng.

Hope this helps.

Message edited by author 2010-12-21 22:54:51.
12/22/2010 07:08:56 AM · #9
It may involve a slight change to your workflow, but you could drag and drop the files from the card to a folder on your hard drive using explorer, prior to importing them from the card. That way you take a copy before importing them into lightroom. Obviously a bit of extra work but you'd only have to do that for challenge entries.

Message edited by author 2010-12-22 07:10:13.
12/22/2010 09:17:08 AM · #10
Originally posted by PapaBob:

Originally posted by TrollMan:

Thanks guys. I'll submit a couple of test files.

Scarbrd: the Leica M9 is just some cheap junk I picked up for nostalgic reasons. DPC hasn't even bothered to have a picture of it in their database. ;)
A coworker saw it today and thought it was one of those gag cameras that sprays water when you squeeze a bellow.


Pretty pricey for a gag camera!


That's heavy Norwegian water -
people go to considerable lengths to get their hands on that stuff...
12/22/2010 09:42:39 AM · #11
FWIW, it's not so much whether Lr modifies the RAW data... it *can't* modify it, so that's not even a consideration. The question is related to whether the SC can verify it as an original. Unlike a RAW file, the DNG format is just a container. It can contain any number of things, and the "instructions" included in the container tell the application opening it how to deal with the included image data. A DNG file could even potentially contain image data in TIFF format.
Because of this layer of abstraction, and the possibility that the DNG file can contain demosaiced image data, there is no way to verify that the file is an un-edited out-of-camera original. For that reason, the DNG format is less robust as a DPC original than a proprietary RAW file. It's more like a JPEG. If the metadtata is intact, it will be fine, but if the metadata has been changed, it will not be accepted. This is a very unfortunate situation for those whose cameras only write RAW data as DNG, because they have no "goof-proof proof." But it is what it is.
12/22/2010 09:49:48 AM · #12
In a Nik Software webinar yesterday, there was emphasis on, and attention drawn to, the LR option to apply changes TO THE MASTER FILE when opening an image in a plugin. The point was to never alter the original file. And, it was presented (by Nik person) as a poorly conceived/implemented option in LR. Not sure if this has anything to do with topic, but it is possible to save changes to the original file with LR. That would make it not usable as a validation file.

ETA: I don't use LR, so I'm just repeating what I thought I heard.
In Apple's Aperture, it is not possible to change the Master file.

Message edited by author 2010-12-22 09:51:53.
12/22/2010 10:07:53 AM · #13
Originally posted by hahn23:

In a Nik Software webinar yesterday, there was emphasis on, and attention drawn to, the LR option to apply changes TO THE MASTER FILE when opening an image in a plugin. The point was to never alter the original file. And, it was presented (by Nik person) as a poorly conceived/implemented option in LR. Not sure if this has anything to do with topic, but it is possible to save changes to the original file with LR. That would make it not usable as a validation file.

ETA: I don't use LR, so I'm just repeating what I thought I heard.
In Apple's Aperture, it is not possible to change the Master file.


In the case of a RAW file, it's not possible for Lr to modify the image data. It *is* possible for Lr to modify the metadata, including keeping track of adjustments in the RAW file. Note that keeping track of the adjustments may mean that the file looks, to the user, like the image data has changed, because Lr knows to apply the adjustments when it opens it... but the RAW image data has not changed.
12/22/2010 11:02:50 AM · #14
Originally posted by hahn23:

In a Nik Software webinar yesterday, there was emphasis on, and attention drawn to, the LR option to apply changes TO THE MASTER FILE when opening an image in a plugin. The point was to never alter the original file. And, it was presented (by Nik person) as a poorly conceived/implemented option in LR. Not sure if this has anything to do with topic, but it is possible to save changes to the original file with LR. That would make it not usable as a validation file.

ETA: I don't use LR, so I'm just repeating what I thought I heard.
In Apple's Aperture, it is not possible to change the Master file.


Nik will then save that file as a TIFF, if you choose; the original is not actually altered. In LR you can export the original RAW file without the LR sidecar file, and, to my knowledge, it is as if it came off the card.
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