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11/18/2009 02:11:28 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
So is the issue that the whole idea has no use |
Yes |
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11/18/2009 02:57:44 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Classic passive aggressive response. I'm sorry that I hurt you Louis. I will try harder next time I promise. Please forgive me. |
Well thanks for taking me seriously. To paraphrase something a very wise woman said to me years ago, you might have a few more people on your side if you had a little more respect for the people you're conversing with. |
Please stop the "making it personal" tactic. Try inspiring us with a solution to the issue at hand if you have that in you. Deal with your own insecurity in another thread.
"The stats quo is the only solution that cannot be vetoed" - Clark Kerr
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11/18/2009 03:04:53 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
So is the issue that the whole idea has no use or that it's  Ivo heading it up?
Nobody said that it's going to be enforceable, just the opposite, so what would be wrong with trying to get together and perhaps putting together this mission statement?
There have been numerous queries from n00bs over the years asking all sorts of questions that involve the more subtle and general concepts that this may very well address.
Doesn't seem like such a bad idea at all, and actually, having Ivo being the one who is putting it forth and expressing a willingness to work through it is its own sweet irony, don'tcha think?.......8>)
And yeah......I'll buy the first half dozen pizzas! |
Yes it appears to be "virtually" personal but that is of little relevance to me as do not rely on this web based community for "friendship". Other than my occasional assertion in the threads, I am compliant and respectful of the spirit of the challenges. That is what I am upholding.
I am willing to work through this with open minded individuals who can get past the personal lessons and distractions.
Pizza will wreck my keyboard. ;-) |
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11/18/2009 03:09:51 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
... Try inspiring us with a solution to the issue at hand ... |
There is no issue...that's the issue.
Sorry - I ran out of popcorn and couldn't resist. Thanks for the entertaining thread! :-) |
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11/18/2009 03:11:38 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Ivo:
... Try inspiring us with a solution to the issue at hand ... |
There is no issue...that's the issue.
Sorry - I ran out of popcorn and couldn't resist. Thanks for the entertaining thread! :-) |
No issue for you but we'll agree you do not represent the whole community. That is cool.
Glad to entertain. ;-) |
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11/18/2009 03:13:59 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
... we'll agree you do not represent the whole community. |
Agreed - as nor do you, so I guess that equalizes our representative votes. |
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11/18/2009 03:14:34 PM · #82 |
| Sorry, but this pet project of yours doesn't constitute an "issue". |
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11/18/2009 03:15:45 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Ivo:
... we'll agree you do not represent the whole community. |
Agreed - as nor do you, so I guess that equalizes our representative votes. |
Oh yeah, my Tonka Toy is bigger than yours and my daddy is a fireman and ..........
Thanks for your input.
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11/18/2009 03:16:37 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Sorry, but this pet project of yours doesn't constitute an "issue". |
Inspiring. Thanks! |
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11/18/2009 03:18:23 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
... Thanks for your input. |
Anytime. |
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11/18/2009 03:21:18 PM · #86 |
Refresher for those just joining us:
The question I present to the community is whether it would be prudent to formulate a basic code of ethics addressing fiascoes similar to those experienced in challenges like 2 second exposure and more recently, 47 steps. In addition, maybe some other elements relating to challenges specifically?
Should the site admin be encouraged to extend the rule set to include a basic code of ethics?
Thoughts? |
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11/18/2009 03:29:01 PM · #87 |
Would this "code" also address members who insult and belittle anyone who posts an opinion or idea contrary to their own in any forum thread?
This seems, to me, a more common and unpleasant occurrence here than the cited challenge "issues".
Message edited by author 2009-11-18 15:29:24. |
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11/18/2009 03:30:16 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
Would this "code" also address members who insult and belittle anyone who posts an opinion or idea contrary to their own in any forum thread?
This seems, to me, a more common and unpleasant occurrence here than the cited challenge "issues". |
Forum rules dictate that already. I'm talking about challenge ethics. Any thoughts on that one? |
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11/18/2009 03:37:09 PM · #89 |
I'm gonna be honest with ya.
While your efforts are noble, I think its a waste of time. The downfall of online communities is that there is no incentive to play nice, there is no incentive to follow the rules. If people can find a way to cheat, they will. People who have that mindset, they are going to cheat regardless of what a code of ethics states. Ultimately, your best bet is to police yourself, lead by example, but understand and accept that it is NOT a level playing ground. If that is something that one can't accept, then the only solution is to move on to another site, and see if its different. |
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11/18/2009 03:44:30 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by deers:
I say, if you have lost the spirit of doing these challenges the way they are described and you are just putting anything you can in to get a score. I'm sorry, your missing half the fun. |
Bingo! |
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11/18/2009 03:50:51 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I'm gonna be honest with ya.
While your efforts are noble, I think its a waste of time. The downfall of online communities is that there is no incentive to play nice, there is no incentive to follow the rules. If people can find a way to cheat, they will. People who have that mindset, they are going to cheat regardless of what a code of ethics states. Ultimately, your best bet is to police yourself, lead by example, but understand and accept that it is NOT a level playing ground. If that is something that one can't accept, then the only solution is to move on to another site, and see if its different. |
I appreciate your insight and I recognize what you are sharing. I, on the other hand, do believe things can change if there is a willingness to make change. Change has to be spurred by something and as most people here may agree, I am eager to spur.
There are many outraged participants who were appalled at the conduct in this last challenge. You can verify that by reading the associated thread and the image comments. Many said things that were pointed and used robust expletives. The damage has been done ...... and now we walk away? Really?
Let's fix this and avoid this recurring event from happening yet again. Let's set up a basic "Code of Ethics" which will serve as a guide for those who may simply be ignorant. Those who cheat will cheat regardless, this is no remedy for that group.
It really can be done or we simply walk away. Which is the right choice? |
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11/18/2009 03:56:13 PM · #92 |
| Like I said, walk away or accept it. The member who submitted that image is one in rather high standing with a lot of the community, he has been here for some time, he knows the rules, he understands what is meant by "spirt of the challenge", etc. But, he also knew that what he was doing was not against the rules, and that the challenge itself was "unenforceable." He obviously knew that people would not be stoked about it either, he knew that they would be angry, he knew there would be a lynch mob, etc. He didn't need a Code of Ethics to tell him that. The bottom line is, a code of ethics only works if the ground work for those ethics are in the person originally. If i'm a cheater, I'm going to cheat, and a text document on a website where I know nobody, nobody knows me, and I have nothing at stake...not gonna persuade me not to do it. I think if its that big of an issue, you are better off moving on to another site, as I feel that this is an aspect of DPC that won't ever change. |
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11/18/2009 03:57:07 PM · #93 |
| x x, you are not taking into account the other side of the equation -- that many people were equally appalled at the backlash. Most of us recognize the value of fairness and playing by the rules and do our best to do so. Sometimes, however, people make mistakes, and sometimes they even apologize for making those mistakes. Let's move on. |
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11/18/2009 04:00:53 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
( ... snip ... )
The question I present to the community is whether it would be prudent to formulate a basic code of ethics ( ... snip ... ) |
No, it wouldn't. |
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11/18/2009 04:02:38 PM · #95 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Like I said, walk away or accept it. The member who submitted that image is one in rather high standing with a lot of the community, he has been here for some time, he knows the rules, he understands what is meant by "spirt of the challenge", etc. But, he also knew that what he was doing was not against the rules, and that the challenge itself was "unenforceable." He obviously knew that people would not be stoked about it either, he knew that they would be angry, he knew there would be a lynch mob, etc. He didn't need a Code of Ethics to tell him that. The bottom line is, a code of ethics only works if the ground work for those ethics are in the person originally. If i'm a cheater, I'm going to cheat, and a text document on a website where I know nobody, nobody knows me, and I have nothing at stake...not gonna persuade me not to do it. I think if its that big of an issue, you are better off moving on to another site, as I feel that this is an aspect of DPC that won't ever change. |
I'd like to believe his choice was due to ignorance and he was misguided by something or someone. I'm sorry you feel he "knows" he is a cheat.
We have all identified the problem, what is the solution? Walking away is dismissive and has proven to be the wrong choice over and over again. |
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11/18/2009 04:04:47 PM · #96 |
| I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in almost 100 responses, you are with the minority on this one. If you feel that a code of ethics needs to be drafted, I encourage you to do so, and then post your draft in a thread for revision and discussion. I appreciate your call to action. |
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11/18/2009 04:06:17 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Like I said, walk away or accept it. The member who submitted that image is one in rather high standing with a lot of the community, he has been here for some time, he knows the rules, he understands what is meant by "spirt of the challenge", etc. But, he also knew that what he was doing was not against the rules, and that the challenge itself was "unenforceable." He obviously knew that people would not be stoked about it either, he knew that they would be angry, he knew there would be a lynch mob, etc. He didn't need a Code of Ethics to tell him that. The bottom line is, a code of ethics only works if the ground work for those ethics are in the person originally. If i'm a cheater, I'm going to cheat, and a text document on a website where I know nobody, nobody knows me, and I have nothing at stake...not gonna persuade me not to do it. I think if its that big of an issue, you are better off moving on to another site, as I feel that this is an aspect of DPC that won't ever change. |
I'd like to believe his choice was due to ignorance and he was misguided by something or someone. I'm sorry you feel he "knows" he is a cheat.
We have all identified the problem, what is the solution? Walking away is dismissive and has proven to be the wrong choice over and over again. |
I dare say you have identified a problem. There are several/many that would say (and have said) no "code" is needed, or wanted. There is no "we all" on dpc. In almost 8 years, I've never seen a topic that everyone agreed on. |
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11/18/2009 04:07:43 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in almost 100 responses, you are with the minority on this one. If you feel that a code of ethics needs to be drafted, I encourage you to do so, and then post your draft in a thread for revision and discussion. I appreciate your call to action. |
Oh no..... IVO = BAD! I could say the day is beautiful and I'd be accused of being abusive and caustic and .....??? ;-) We do this together. Jump on the band wagon! This needs to be fixed. |
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11/18/2009 04:09:11 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Like I said, walk away or accept it. The member who submitted that image is one in rather high standing with a lot of the community, he has been here for some time, he knows the rules, he understands what is meant by "spirt of the challenge", etc. But, he also knew that what he was doing was not against the rules, and that the challenge itself was "unenforceable." He obviously knew that people would not be stoked about it either, he knew that they would be angry, he knew there would be a lynch mob, etc. He didn't need a Code of Ethics to tell him that. The bottom line is, a code of ethics only works if the ground work for those ethics are in the person originally. If i'm a cheater, I'm going to cheat, and a text document on a website where I know nobody, nobody knows me, and I have nothing at stake...not gonna persuade me not to do it. I think if its that big of an issue, you are better off moving on to another site, as I feel that this is an aspect of DPC that won't ever change. |
I'd like to believe his choice was due to ignorance and he was misguided by something or someone. I'm sorry you feel he "knows" he is a cheat.
We have all identified the problem, what is the solution? Walking away is dismissive and has proven to be the wrong choice over and over again. |
I dare say you have identified a problem. There are several/many that would say (and have said) no "code" is needed, or wanted. There is no "we all" on dpc. In almost 8 years, I've never seen a topic that everyone agreed on. |
Is it not a problem he was chastised? That people were upset? Was this a SC imposed human "lab rat" experiment Karma?? ;-)
Message edited by author 2009-11-18 16:11:23. |
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11/18/2009 04:13:47 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Ivo:
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
Like I said, walk away or accept it. The member who submitted that image is one in rather high standing with a lot of the community, he has been here for some time, he knows the rules, he understands what is meant by "spirt of the challenge", etc. But, he also knew that what he was doing was not against the rules, and that the challenge itself was "unenforceable." He obviously knew that people would not be stoked about it either, he knew that they would be angry, he knew there would be a lynch mob, etc. He didn't need a Code of Ethics to tell him that. The bottom line is, a code of ethics only works if the ground work for those ethics are in the person originally. If i'm a cheater, I'm going to cheat, and a text document on a website where I know nobody, nobody knows me, and I have nothing at stake...not gonna persuade me not to do it. I think if its that big of an issue, you are better off moving on to another site, as I feel that this is an aspect of DPC that won't ever change. |
I'd like to believe his choice was due to ignorance and he was misguided by something or someone. I'm sorry you feel he "knows" he is a cheat.
We have all identified the problem, what is the solution? Walking away is dismissive and has proven to be the wrong choice over and over again. |
I dare say you have identified a problem. There are several/many that would say (and have said) no "code" is needed, or wanted. There is no "we all" on dpc. In almost 8 years, I've never seen a topic that everyone agreed on. |
Is it not a problem he was chastised? That people were upset? Was this a SC imposed human "lab rat" experiment Karma?? ;-) |
IMO, the bigger problem was the level people stooped to in response to him.
I cannot control how people react -- only they can control that.
We don't do "lab rat" experiments. We prefer larger animals. |
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