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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> DPC - CODE OF ETHICS?
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11/18/2009 12:03:59 AM · #1
First off, thank you to SC for closing the other thread as it was deviating from a very important and timely issue.

The question I present to the community is whether it would be prudent to formulate a basic code of ethics addressing fiascoes similar to those experienced in challenges like 2 second exposure and more recently, 24 steps. In addition, maybe some other elements relating to challenges specifically?

Should the site admin be encouraged to extend the rule set to include a basic code of ethics?

Thoughts?
11/18/2009 12:07:52 AM · #2
We have terms of service. I assume you mean something beyond that. Maybe you could be more specific about what might be included.
11/18/2009 12:09:38 AM · #3
Originally posted by Ivo:

...Should the site admin be encouraged to extend the rule set to include a basic code of ethics?

Thoughts?


"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."
Tacitus

:)

Message edited by author 2009-11-18 00:09:59.
11/18/2009 12:12:43 AM · #4
The TOS outlines legalities and the and the parameters associated with them. The Code of Ethics would deal with the "spirit" of the competition functionality of the site. Much in the same way we are governed in the forums. Is that clearer?
11/18/2009 12:20:07 AM · #5
I don't think legislating morality is a good idea.

Let this be a life lesson to you: cheaters and panderers go far in this world.
11/18/2009 12:23:42 AM · #6
Originally posted by posthumous:

I don't think legislating morality is a good idea.

Let this be a life lesson to you: cheaters and panderers go far in this world.

Hmmm. Never thought of combining the 2. Cheating panderers could own the world. MWuahh Hahhh Hahhhh!!!! ;)

So that woul dbe my vote no against a code of ethics.
11/18/2009 12:24:21 AM · #7
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by Ivo:

...Should the site admin be encouraged to extend the rule set to include a basic code of ethics?

Thoughts?


"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."
Tacitus

:)


Fair comment and these are not hard set rules. They are clear and universal guidelines for those who may need additional clarity on what "the community" requires to maintain some form of cohesion. It could be more general than the challenge specific ones already in place. Consider it a "harmonious" understanding which embeds integrity into the competition. It would be self governed, accessible and universal for everyone's benefit.
11/18/2009 12:26:57 AM · #8
Originally posted by posthumous:

I don't think legislating morality is a good idea.

Let this be a life lesson to you: cheaters and panderers go far in this world.


Sorta sad huh? I wish for a better world in which communication will remedy this ignorance. ;-)
11/18/2009 12:30:54 AM · #9
It's the nature of life that people will bend or break the rules to get what they want, I think that anyone who claims otherwise is either an absolute saint or lying.

However, I wouldn't like to see any specific rules implemented on actually meeting the challenge guidelines, I think for the rare occasion when it would actually matter, does it really make that much of a difference?

There's no money, prizes, livelihood etc at stake here, the only thing you actually win (other than the virtual ribbon) is credibility and admiration, and I think those would both be taken from you pretty quickly if it was discovered you didn't follow the guidelines.
11/18/2009 12:33:41 AM · #10
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by Ivo:

...Should the site admin be encouraged to extend the rule set to include a basic code of ethics?

Thoughts?


"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."
Tacitus

:)


Definitely truth in that statement.
11/18/2009 12:40:00 AM · #11
Pretty much what the 'us' folk say. (Tacitus, zeus, posthumous and tnus).
11/18/2009 12:40:56 AM · #12
Originally posted by posthumous:

I don't think legislating morality is a good idea.

Let this be a life lesson to you: cheaters and panderers go far in this world.


Agreed. However 21_N.gif Ivo can lead the crafting of a mission statement to reflect the goals of the site and the presumed moral guidelines recently discussed, i.e. sportsmanship, etc. A Mission statement can be a powerful motivator, particularly if crafted as a group. It would not be a rule, just a reflection of the group as a whole. If created by the members then it will reflect the current expectations of the sites major stakeholders.

Message edited by author 2009-11-18 00:44:26.
11/18/2009 12:44:11 AM · #13
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:

There's no money, prizes, livelihood etc at stake here, the only thing you actually win (other than the virtual ribbon) is credibility and admiration, and I think those would both be taken from you pretty quickly if it was discovered you didn't follow the guidelines.


And this is a sad testimony to what is happening already. I attribute this outcome to ignorance. Let's use this as yet another educational tool thus averting these divisive scenarios.

I have no clear solution but I wholeheartedly believe there is a need for clarity.

How about this? "Challenge descriptions may be circumvented without fear of community backlash". As long as we all agree, there is no problem right?

The Code should also be permissive encouraging creativity. Think about that one.
11/18/2009 12:50:26 AM · #14
timfy, you're no cheater!

;)
11/18/2009 12:51:06 AM · #15
I personally try to avoid judging morals because it is one of those things that is different for everyone. Though I like to think there is a basic code of right and wrong that everyone tries to follow no matter who they are. The guy on that decided to rub his cheating score in our face.. well he just put him self in front of a moving train. Hes not the only one who cheated hes just the only one to wave it around.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is much you can do to prevent stuff like this. Its like the big government, the more you try and control things the more out of hand it gets, because there will always be someone who goes around it.

As for the steps challenge. That is a classic photography teacher's lesson. You are to learn to create something out of nothing. I could have easily taken a photo of the Comal river which is only a few paces from my back door. At sunset that would have been another one of those stunning landscape shots. BUT that wouldn't be in the spirit of the challenge. I happily used a dark boring stair case instead. It ended up being my highest scored photo to date.

I say, if you have lost the spirit of doing these challenges the way they are described and you are just putting anything you can in to get a score. I'm sorry, your missing half the fun.
11/18/2009 01:02:36 AM · #16
Okay, so this is what I'm hearing;

Yeah, it would be great but it will never work because people are naturally deceptive and self serving....."quotes from smart dead people" ;-)

Either we shut up and accept it or try to fix it. I think it can be fixed within reason, Is there a desire to work through this? It can be fun.

11/18/2009 01:09:35 AM · #17
Originally posted by zeuszen:

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state."
Tacitus


I've always agreed 100% with this statement. It counts for every government in the world.
11/18/2009 01:11:50 AM · #18
Originally posted by bspurgeon:

Agreed. However 21_N.gif Ivo can lead the crafting of a mission statement to reflect the goals of the site and the presumed moral guidelines recently discussed, i.e. sportsmanship, etc. A Mission statement can be a powerful motivator, particularly if crafted as a group. It would not be a rule, just a reflection of the group as a whole. If created by the members then it will reflect the current expectations of the sites major stakeholders.


Great, happy to do so. We'll need a basic outline, a mission statement, yada yada yada. That works.

Should it be specific and use scenarios as examples? For example: Encouraging a global and open minded view on creative challenge entries. Creativity is how you grow!

11/18/2009 01:15:16 AM · #19
Not only has the internet demonstrated that no increase in the number of monkeys bashing away on typewriters gets you any closer to reproducing the works of Shakespeare, it has also shown that increased facilitation and effectiveness of communication and communication technology make us less like a global village and more like a global committee.

PS - sorry about the negative tone, Ivo. The problem is there and I certainly like your idea of playing at it rather than working at it. Even so, it smacks of sanctioning negative behaviour, which brings (perceived) negative behaviour into a foreground.

Don't forget that a certain smart dead person has instigated a reward for otherwise unrecognised merit around here. Way to go?
11/18/2009 01:19:48 AM · #20
I think there should be a code of ethics when it comes to public lashing of ANYONE on this site before there's a code of ethics against NOT BREAKING AN ACTUAL RULE... This idea that there should be sportsmanship and the so called "spirit" of the challenge.. What's the point of having either of those if we all still have the right & the opportunity to bombard ONE single person with a barrage of negative comments & personal attacks.. If we can't be asked to be civil towards one another, then how on earth can there be a "spirit" of anything ???
11/18/2009 01:21:42 AM · #21
Originally posted by Ivo:

Okay, so this is what I'm hearing;

Yeah, it would be great but it will never work because people are naturally deceptive and self serving....."quotes from smart dead people" ;-)

Either we shut up and accept it or try to fix it. I think it can be fixed within reason, Is there a desire to work through this? It can be fun.


Suppose something is done. How do we know when it's better or fixed?

Message edited by author 2009-11-18 01:23:15.
11/18/2009 01:24:03 AM · #22
Originally posted by raish:

Not only has the internet demonstrated that no increase in the number of monkeys bashing away on typewriters gets you any closer to reproducing the works of Shakespeare, it has also shown that increased facilitation and effectiveness of communication and communication technology make us less like a global village and more like a global committee.

PS - sorry about the negative tone, Ivo. The problem is there and I certainly like your idea of playing at it rather than working at it. Even so, it smacks of sanctioning negative behaviour, which brings (perceived) negative behaviour into a foreground.

Don't forget that a certain smart dead person has instigated a reward for otherwise unrecognised merit around here. Way to go?


All it has to start with is a series a well formulated questions we poll through surveys. The challenge is defining the questions. The other part is simple and may create a great framework.
11/18/2009 01:30:06 AM · #23
Originally posted by kandykarml:

I think there should be a code of ethics when it comes to public lashing of ANYONE on this site before there's a code of ethics against NOT BREAKING AN ACTUAL RULE... This idea that there should be sportsmanship and the so called "spirit" of the challenge.. What's the point of having either of those if we all still have the right & the opportunity to bombard ONE single person with a barrage of negative comments & personal attacks.. If we can't be asked to be civil towards one another, then how on earth can there be a "spirit" of anything ???


And this is why I like to defer to the written word, it greatly reduced ambiguity. We have some pretty strong feelings on what is good for me, you, us, and the community as a whole. At this time, there is no place to reference this in a reasonable manner. Lets create one??
11/18/2009 01:35:53 AM · #24
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by kandykarml:

I think there should be a code of ethics when it comes to public lashing of ANYONE on this site before there's a code of ethics against NOT BREAKING AN ACTUAL RULE... This idea that there should be sportsmanship and the so called "spirit" of the challenge.. What's the point of having either of those if we all still have the right & the opportunity to bombard ONE single person with a barrage of negative comments & personal attacks.. If we can't be asked to be civil towards one another, then how on earth can there be a "spirit" of anything ???


And this is why I like to defer to the written word, it greatly reduced ambiguity. We have some pretty strong feelings on what is good for me, you, us, and the community as a whole. At this time, there is no place to reference this in a reasonable manner. Lets create one??


OK.......... I've got it... And, we only need one rule.... My mom taught me this, and I do sometimes forget... here it is..

If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all.. that covers the personal attacks and public lashing.. BTW, I missed the thread"s" on this one.. I only read the comments on the image when looking through the final outcome & then realized this has all been going on.. I'm sad for the photog because no matter the outcome, no one would wish that on anyone, let alone do it to themselves..
11/18/2009 01:45:30 AM · #25
Originally posted by kandykarml:

If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all.. that covers the personal attacks and public lashing.. BTW, I missed the thread"s" on this one.. I only read the comments on the image when looking through the final outcome & then realized this has all been going on.. I'm sad for the photog because no matter the outcome, no one would wish that on anyone, let alone do it to themselves..


That is an excellent statement to emphasize restraint. Sometimes a response is required and necessary. How we respond is the question.

Would you be willing to offer some wisdom in the construction of a framework for the model?

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