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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> automatic backup - local NAS -> remote NAS ??
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11/12/2009 03:16:50 PM · #1
I want to set up a back-up like this:

I want to have a local NAS device in my house. I will have things backed up there. I want that NAS device to automagically back up to another NAS device I have located at my moms house for offsite redundant storage.

Do anyone know if this is easy to set up, or of a software program I can put on the local NAS to do the automatic backup. Can you hook a monitor and keyboard up to a NAS and install regular programs like syncback?

I don't have any experience with a NAS device so I don't really know what the possibilities are.
11/12/2009 04:36:44 PM · #2
Depends on the NAS - the one I have (a ReadyNAS) will happily use 'rsync' to automatically back up to another box I have; the much cheaper one I used to have (before it crashed HARD) didn't.
11/12/2009 05:54:21 PM · #3
how do you know which ones can and which can't. Is there a setting or tech spec I can check to make sure the one I want has that.

Would a Windows Home Server be able to do this?

Was that other box of yours offsite or on the same network?
11/12/2009 06:50:24 PM · #4
rsync is a fairly standard (well, in the Unix world) backup tool - if a NAS supports it, it's highly likely to say so in the specs. A quick google suggests that you can get rsync running on Windows Home Server, but I've never tried it myself.

My other box happens to be on the same network, but that's largely because I haven't yet figured out how to sneak it into my in-law's house without them noticing ;)

Which NAS do you have? It may well have some other options built in - I only mentioned rsync because it's what I happen to use, and tends to be quite widely supported (if not, natively, by Windoze!)
11/12/2009 09:57:37 PM · #5
Yes you can and there is a perfect solution for it.

hxxp://qnap.com/pro_detail_software.asp?p_id=113

QNAP 219 is perfect and I use the older 209 model. I have one at home and one at the office, I sync from Office to Home.
11/13/2009 03:33:20 AM · #6
@ganders I don't has a NAS. I am looking to buy one and want to make sure I get one (or two actually) that can sync remotely off site.

@stewzdaman thanks for the suggestion. They look quite good, I'll have to check them out more.
11/13/2009 04:05:37 AM · #7
rsync seems to be a pretty useful program too and it seems that off site storage might work with this.. not sure.
11/13/2009 12:23:29 PM · #8
I'm another old-school unix geek -- I'll cast another vote for rsync as well. I've used it in virtually every job I've ever had to copy and/or sync data across various-sized networks, including true around-the-world / global scenarios.

Concerning running it on winblows, you can certainly get a version of it in cygwin. You can also find standalone splinter software based on rsync -- DeltaCopy being a well-known example. It has a little more "touchy-feely" gui ("true" rsync is solely command line).

However, depending on which NAS you get, you can run it on the NAS device itself. I have multiple DLink DNS-323 units (only $119 right now, diskless) each running a full install of Debian Linux. In that setup, it's trivial to use rsync to move data around, and I do frequently. I highly recommend those devices for people "techy" enough to utilize them to their full potential... but not necessarily for the average user. Check out the dns323 wiki. If the stuff discussed there is complete Greek to you, it might not be a good fit.

There are three concerns you'll need to consider when moving data between two distant network components, as you are describing.

1. Uplink speed from the source device. Many people become rather spoiled with high downstream data speeds, and assume their home Internet connection must be able to move data either direction at blistering speeds. This is usually not the case. While your downstream feed is very fast, your uplink (your ability to send data out to a remote location) is normally very VERY limited in comparison. Verify your uplink speed using speedtest at dslreports (or any number of online speed test sites), and do some math. Even completely "maxed out" (which will make other Internet activity on your home connection slow to a crawl), it may take many days of 24-hours-a-day copying to complete your initial data sync. Then, consider how much data will be changing each time period (rsync will only copy changes once the initial copy is complete) and how often you will run resynchronizations. Make sure you won't be changing more than you can keep up with.

2. Incoming connection at target device. Many ISPs (as well as physical Internet gateways and/or routers) restrict incoming network connections to protect your home network from attack. You'll need to open a port (rsync is capable of using any port, or using a tunnel, discussed next), but you will need *some* open form of communication between the two devices. This will almost certainly require changes in the security settings on your target device network, or, depending on your network provider, may not be possible at all. If you cannot get "in" remotely to your target, you could implement a scheme where the target polls the source; but then you need an incoming connection on the source side. If you use the same paranoid provider on both sides, you may be stuck. You need a way "in" on one side or the other.

3. Security. Since you are going to be sending your data across the wild west of the 'Net, you need to consider securing your connection and encrypting your data. Using rsync, I'd recommend (at the very least) a basic ssh tunnel (rsync is tightly integrated with ssh and can create a tunnel itself using the provided command-line options, but you'll still need key pairs, passphrases, etc set up). That's becomes another topic altogether and can be, depending on your level of comfort with computers, a bit complicated.

In short, if you're already rather computer-savvy and/or willing to get your hands dirty, I'd say go for it. What you're talking about doing is very easy for an experienced IT professional and is only a few minutes of "real work." However, if you're not already familiar with the topics at hand, you're looking at several days of getting up to speed and figuring out how to make it work and keeping it secure. If that's not appealing to you, I'd recommend one of the commercial offsite backup solutions like mozy.
11/14/2009 05:12:20 AM · #9
It's probably worth bearing in mind, however, that Mozy (and, from what I can tell, all the other "unlimited" online backup services) are "not for commercial use" according to their terms and conditions - if you're backing up photographs that you sell, that really counts as commercial use.

I've never heard of any of these companies actually enforcing that part of their terms, but that's what has put me off using them up until now.
11/14/2009 09:44:17 AM · #10
Just for all the hardcore Linux/UNIX nuts, the QNAP solution I suggested _is_ Linux, has a compilable kernel, and it push button simple for those that aren't hax0rs.
11/16/2009 02:57:00 PM · #11
one reasno I shy away from QNAP is the RAID. If the QNAP system fails, I'll loose all my data (correct??) With the windows server things are stored simply so you can take a drive out and hook it up to a computer and read it's contents.

After reading more about QNAP though, they DO look good.
11/16/2009 03:12:17 PM · #12
Lifehacker had an interesting top 5 today related to this:

//lifehacker.com/5405041/five-best-online-backup-tools

The free version of CrashPlan software will apparently do backups to another remote computer that also has the software installed. Might be worth looking at.
11/17/2009 01:01:00 PM · #13
Originally posted by leaf:

one reasno I shy away from QNAP is the RAID. If the QNAP system fails, I'll loose all my data (correct??) With the windows server things are stored simply so you can take a drive out and hook it up to a computer and read it's contents.


No, RAID is there to protect your data. RAID works by mirroring one drive to another, so an exact copy. Both drives would have to have a complete hardware failure for this to be a problem, I never seen that. If one failed, pop in a new drive and it will re-mirror the blank drive.

Another RAID option is stripping the data across a set of drives 3 or more. In this case, you can replace the failed drive in a HOT swap and the other drives with automatically fill in the replaced drive with the data. More of an enterprise solution.

Message edited by author 2009-11-17 13:01:45.
11/17/2009 01:27:33 PM · #14
Originally posted by stewzdaman:

No, RAID is there to protect your data. RAID works by mirroring one drive to another, so an exact copy. Both drives would have to have a complete hardware failure for this to be a problem, I never seen that. If one failed, pop in a new drive and it will re-mirror the blank drive.

Another RAID option is stripping the data across a set of drives 3 or more. In this case, you can replace the failed drive in a HOT swap and the other drives with automatically fill in the replaced drive with the data. More of an enterprise solution.


Careful here -- RAID is one of those terms that gets thrown around a lot and misused in many cases. Just saying "RAID" protects your data is not at all correct. There are specific RAID implementations which *can* protect your data (from certain, specific hardware failures), but there are also RAID configurations designed for higher performance, but no protection from drive failure.

Also, not all RAID controllers (nor drives for that matter) support hot-swap. The RAID level has nothing do with with hot-swap support -- that's a function of the hardware (and possibly software, if considering software-based RAID) the RAID has been implemented on.

For both RAID implementation and hot-swap capability, carefully check the specs for any device you are considering. Even more importantly, review RAID definitions and make sure *you* are comfortable enough to understand the specs you are looking at.

Standard disclaimer -- certain implementations of RAID only protect against specific hardware component failures; they are not a mechanism designed or meant to replace normal data backup strategies, offsite data protection, blah blah blah and blah.

Message edited by author 2009-11-17 13:34:38.
11/17/2009 03:08:12 PM · #15
Even in a resilient configuration, RAID only protects you against drive failure. My old RAID box suffered a hardware (non-drive) failure; luckily it was configured as RAID1 (a pair of mirrored drives) and I was able to pull the data off quite easily.

My new RAID box is actually using a strange RAID5 like hybrid, which gives me more capacity but does carry the risk that, if the non-drive parts fail I'll potentially lose access to that data (at least until I replace the unit) - the only reason I'm taking that risk is that I've got a second, non-RAID box sat next to it taking automatic nightly copies (via rsync, funnily enough!)

So leaf is right, that if the NAS hardware fails, you potentially lose your data depending on what mode it's operating in. But then, this is the whole point of wanting automated backups across multiple NAS - that way, you're completely protected unless you have such bad luck that you suffer simultaneous, double hardware failure...
02/12/2010 03:56:36 AM · #16
I want to back up all of my data to my external hard drive at the end of every day, and I started using the Acronis True Image Home software to do so. I made the first backup yesterday, which understandably took a long time. But now I'm running the first daily backup, as a test, and it says it'll take 4 hours to finish!.So due to all these difficulties i quit Acronis & now i am using Magic Backup online service & really it's great .Magic Backup is so easy to use, and so reliable. Unlike other backup products that perform "scheduled" backups during the middle of the night, Magic Backup is always on the lookout for new or changed files that need to be backed up. The minute you're done editing a document, (well, 10 minutes after actually), Magic Backup will silently prepare and transfer a secure copy of that file to your private location on our servers. You never have to worry about complicated configuration settings, marking files for backup, changing backup tapes, burning backup CDs.

Message edited by author 2010-02-13 02:00:17.
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