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08/27/2009 08:33:58 PM · #1 |
Ok...here is a simple statement and question:
The WHITE HOUSE says the U.S. will have a deficit of 9 trillion dollars in ten years.
Questions:
Will we ever dig out of this hole?
How will it affect a 25 year old in the year 2025 ? (taxes, services, defense etc)
You must give you opinions on these questions without mentioning:
George Bush
Iraq
Afghanistan
Dick Cheney
Rush Limbaugh
Hannity
Fox News
Thanks
Message edited by author 2009-08-27 20:34:17. |
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08/27/2009 08:56:29 PM · #2 |
With the exception of Limbaugh, Hannity and Fox, I'm not sure it is possible to discuss the deficit without mentioning the others. (and I'm a "conservative" republican).
The hole didn't start being dug in 2009, and the rate that Obama digs only adds to the depth created by his predecessors. Had any president before now, Rep., Dem. or PInk and Purple polka-dotted, eliminated the deficit completely, or even gotten it to a "reasonable" amount, it might be fair to place the burden at Obama's feet.
Unfortunately, though, he is just continuing the political traditions. |
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08/27/2009 08:59:10 PM · #3 |
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08/27/2009 09:55:32 PM · #4 |
Talk about the greatest golfers of all time.
Do it without mentioning:
Tiger Woods
Arnold Palmer
Jack Nicklaus
Sam Snead
Gary Player
Byron Nelson
Ben Hogan
Either you're looking to start a back-and-forth rant session, or you're joking around and asking a rhetorical question (knowing full well that the condition is primarily the fault of Bush et al.). |
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08/27/2009 10:08:39 PM · #5 |
Vijay Singh.
All fingers point to Congress over the last 60 years. |
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08/27/2009 10:11:38 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Unfortunately, though, he is just continuing the political traditions. |
Well... I guess that's okay... as long as he didn't start it.
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08/27/2009 10:15:21 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by alans_world:
Vijay Singh.
All fingers point to Congress over the last 60 years. |
Congress over 60 years? That's quite a time frame to blame.
Considering how much is spent on the war in Iraq (even when considering the revenue earned from the war), don't you think the current state of the USA would be better were it not involved? |
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08/27/2009 10:22:28 PM · #8 |
The same for the previous war with Iraq, Vietnam War, Korean War, Cold War. I guess I didn't go back far enough..
Message edited by author 2009-08-27 22:23:12. |
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08/27/2009 10:23:38 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Ok...here is a simple statement and question:
The WHITE HOUSE says the U.S. will have a deficit of 9 trillion dollars in ten years.
Questions:
Will we ever dig out of this hole?
How will it affect a 25 year old in the year 2025 ? (taxes, services, defense etc)
You must give you opinions on these questions without mentioning:
George Bush
Iraq
Afghanistan
Dick Cheney
Rush Limbaugh
Hannity
Fox News
Thanks |
Is that deficit (annual shortfall) or debt (overall shortfall)? |
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08/27/2009 10:31:40 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by karmat:
Unfortunately, though, he is just continuing the political traditions. |
Well... I guess that's okay... as long as he didn't start it. |
I never said it was okay, at all. Just that you can't blame all of this on Obama and totally ignore the contributions of the past. |
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08/27/2009 10:41:20 PM · #11 |
Why did this go to rant? I don't see one thing "ranting" on any of the replies.
However, no one even attempted to answer the questions. I didn't ask "who" got us into the hole. I asked if we would ever dig out and how it will affect the workers that have to pay it back.
Originally posted by kenskid:
Ok...here is a simple statement and question:
The WHITE HOUSE says the U.S. will have a deficit of 9 trillion dollars in ten years.
Questions:
Will we ever dig out of this hole?
How will it affect a 25 year old in the year 2025 ? (taxes, services, defense etc)
You must give you opinions on these questions without mentioning:
George Bush
Iraq
Afghanistan
Dick Cheney
Rush Limbaugh
Hannity
Fox News
Thanks |
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08/27/2009 11:41:57 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Questions:
Will we ever dig out of this hole? |
I believe it is possible. I don't think it will be very easy. The American people have been known to do some amazing things.
I believe if our government will avoid cap/trade, and an expensive health care plan we can't afford, that would be a good first step. Borrowing/printing money when you're already very deep in the hole is never a good idea. Beyond that I don't have the smarts to imagine it. I do know from reading history that democracies have a tendency to fall apart after 200 to 300 years. It might be time for a brand new path for the people of North America. I won't be pretty.
Originally posted by kenskid:
How will it affect a 25 year old in the year 2025 ? (taxes, services, defense etc)
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16 years? At the very least I would expect much higher taxes, especially at the local level. Inflation will probably climb sharply. Services of all types, cut. We'll no longer be "the" superpower. That will be for China. |
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08/27/2009 11:44:48 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Why did this go to rant? I don't see one thing "ranting" on any of the replies.
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Yeah, really. The "See Ya Teddy" thread should have gone to rant the first day. But since I'm only a registered person now I didn't click the report post link and suggest that. Perhaps someone did on this thread. |
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08/28/2009 12:12:51 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Why did this go to rant? I don't see one thing "ranting" on any of the replies.
However, no one even attempted to answer the questions. I didn't ask "who" got us into the hole. I asked if we would ever dig out and how it will affect the workers that have to pay it back.
Originally posted by kenskid:
Ok...here is a simple statement and question:
The WHITE HOUSE says the U.S. will have a deficit of 9 trillion dollars in ten years.
Questions:
Will we ever dig out of this hole?
How will it affect a 25 year old in the year 2025 ? (taxes, services, defense etc)
You must give you opinions on these questions without mentioning:
George Bush
Iraq
Afghanistan
Dick Cheney
Rush Limbaugh
Hannity
Fox News
Thanks |
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Because you didn't want to have an honest discussion, that's why it went into rant. Speaking of our dept and excluding Bush, Cheney and Iraq is ridiculous.
Bush gave out tax cuts to the wealthy which cost the gov't approximately 1.8 trillion in revenue and more with interest. Cheney and Rumsfeld were the cornerstones that led us into Iraq which cost at least $700 billion or $6-9 billion per month. The returning troops will cost $5-7 billion according to the CBO.
Bush's policy would have given out the Bailout/Tarp money and Obama continued with that policy. I agree with what they did and you can't put it squarely on Obamas shoulders primarily because he didn't cause the problem to begin with. It seems to be working, as well. I'm sure we would have fallen hard if all those corporation went under. Imagine a few million more layoffs, in the middle and upper class...?
Reagan nearly tripled the debt by the end of his term and Clinton ran surpluses.
The irony is after watching FOX a little while ago noticing how many things were in full swing while Bush was still in office that have now been dumped on Obama and they are now blaming him for. The CIA terror stuff was going south for two years already to name one thing...
Whatever happened to Rumsfeld? Wasn't he forced to resign or something...?
Message edited by author 2009-08-28 00:32:19. |
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08/28/2009 12:19:23 AM · #15 |
Luckily, I am not 25. Either way, that asshole Obama is setting records with his ridiculous, liberal minded spending. Hopefully I'll be dead or somewhere around New Zealand when all you happy liberals have to deal with the damage he has done. At Obama's spending rate, you will never again see anything other than a massive deficit. But hey, we can always just print more dollars...right? F-ing liberal spending tactics will be the downfall of our nation. Watch.
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08/28/2009 12:22:25 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
...Obama is setting records with his ridiculous, liberal minded spending. |
Which records would that be? |
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08/28/2009 12:39:03 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
...Obama is setting records with his ridiculous, liberal minded spending. |
Which records would that be? |
In just over 7 months Obama has brought us to the brink... (yeah...he's to blame)
It's funny, I never flip the race card and deplore those who do it for a living like Sharpton, Jesse Jackson etc.because I believe 90% of the time they're full of total shit and their claims don't hold water BUT I think a good deal of this anti Obama stuff is a race issue. Thinly veiled behind wild claims and righteous indignation, a spade is a spade...pardon the pun.
Message edited by author 2009-08-28 07:37:32. |
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08/28/2009 03:30:31 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by ericwoo:
...Obama is setting records with his ridiculous, liberal minded spending. |
Which records would that be? |
In just over 7 months Obama has brought us to the brink... (yeah...he's to blame)
It's funny, I never flip the race card and deplore those who do it for a living like Sharpton, Jesse Jackson etc.because I believe 90% of the time they're full of total shit and their claims don't hold water BUT I think a good deal of this anti Obama stuff is partly a race issue. Thinly veiled behind wild claims and righteous indignation, a spade is a spade...pardon the pun. |
Ehhh... I think it's more a matter of polarization and extreme partisan hackery. It's easier to say "damn liberals" or "damn republicans" than to actually explain why you feel the policy is flawed. Most people have no real idea why one approach is better anyway, having had no real education in any of the hundreds of subjects that are required to understand these issues and thus prefer to encapsulate their views into simple statements like "I hate liberals" instead of "i hate deficit spending." I think one of the reasons people prefer to say how bad blue or red is is because if you start saying things like "i hate deficit spending" you are forced to acknowledge both sides have done it and your beloved party is no longer the knight in shining armor you thought it was.
As long as an we as a people continue to encourage this idiotic divide between people we will only move further from a change in policy towards an actual solution.
What will the deficit mean for the future? Required scaling back in a lot of areas. No more living outside of our means, and hopefully a return to an approach that is more grounded in reality than what has been the universal American approach to life for the past century.
What effect will it have on a 25 year old?
It depends if the US wakes up and realizes it can't compete with the growing industrialization in India and China when it comes to labor. The economy needs to shift further from production and focus on education and research and export our knowledge. It also depends if foreign policy is continued in the same manner. I don't foresee the problem improving if foreign policy isn't changed, because we throw a lot of money at the approach that we currently use and it's a HUGE drain on things.
Really though, the deficit is a moot point if terrorism as an ideology continues to gain support around the world. Misplaced nuclear weapons from the former USSR are bound to fall into the wrong hands if it does. Recession is a lot better than world war :\ |
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08/28/2009 03:44:23 AM · #19 |
Yeah, yeah, yeah ...
Originally posted by AJHopp:
Bush didn't quadruple the deficit. Obama did, ... |
According to the US Treasury, Bush the previous President essentially ran up as much of a deficit as the country had accumulated in the 224 years up to his administration. Show me where Obama's the current President has now quadrupled that figure ... somehow I think we'd have heard (from China if nowhere else) if the US had a forty trillion dollar deficit.
Originally posted by US Treasury Department:
Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2008
09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86 |
Of course, this sort of deficit profligacy is nothing new for so-called conservatives ...
Originally posted by cited article:
What concerns these economists most is the growing federal deficit -- "the major adverse legacy of the Reagan economic program," as William A. Niskanen, another of the President's former economic advisers, describes it. |
The Federal deficit essentially tripled on Reagan's watch:
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 * 1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 * 1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 * 1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 * 1,142,034,000,000.00
09/30/1981 * 997,855,000,000.00
Seems to me that if the deficit was 10 Trillion when Obama was elected, and is now 11 Trillion, that the deficit has increased 10% on his watch (so far).
BTW, the title of your thread is wrong (see above) -- maybe you could have actually looked up the figure before complaining about it. |
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08/28/2009 04:24:30 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
...
The Federal deficit essentially tripled on Reagan's watch:
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 * 1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 * 1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 * 1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 * 1,142,034,000,000.00
09/30/1981 * 997,855,000,000.00
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Pffff. Star Wars was TOTALLY worth it! |
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08/28/2009 08:10:30 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Pffff. Star Wars was TOTALLY worth it! |
I saw that movie! I agree!
:) |
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08/28/2009 08:19:40 AM · #22 |
NO... being several trillions of dollars in debt can never be considered a good thing as it saddles future generations with a massive debt and will greatly impinge of the lifestyle of all concerned.
Having said this, I do find some of the content of your entry disingenuous at best, particularly when you state that ensuing discussions are not to make mention of:
George Bush
Iraq
Afghanistan
Dick Cheney
Rush Limbaugh
etc.,
This would seem to suggest that these players had no bearing on the creation of this massive debt and that everything negative is wholly attributable to the current administration.
Ray |
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08/28/2009 08:23:48 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Luckily, I am not 25. Either way, that asshole Obama is setting records with his ridiculous, liberal minded spending. Hopefully I'll be dead or somewhere around New Zealand when all you happy liberals have to deal with the damage he has done. At Obama's spending rate, you will never again see anything other than a massive deficit. But hey, we can always just print more dollars...right? F-ing liberal spending tactics will be the downfall of our nation. Watch. |
If you don't like the tax system in the USA, I would strongly suggest you not move to New Zealand.
Oh, given a choice between death or New Zealand, I do believe I would opt for the latter.
Ray |
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08/28/2009 08:23:55 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
NO... being several trillions of dollars in debt can never be considered a good thing as it saddles future generations with a massive debt and will greatly impinge of the lifestyle of all concerned.
Having said this, I do find some of the content of your entry disingenuous at best, particularly when you state that ensuing discussions are not to make mention of:
George Bush
Iraq......
This would seem to suggest that these players had no bearing on the creation of this massive debt and that everything negative is wholly attributable to the current administration.
Ray |
But if you watch FOX that angle's pretty much their entire daily broadcast. DOH! Sorry, I forgot, they're on the list. |
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08/28/2009 08:56:03 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by ericwoo:
Luckily, I am not 25. Either way, that asshole Obama is setting records with his ridiculous, liberal minded spending. Hopefully I'll be dead or somewhere around New Zealand when all you happy liberals have to deal with the damage he has done. At Obama's spending rate, you will never again see anything other than a massive deficit. But hey, we can always just print more dollars...right? F-ing liberal spending tactics will be the downfall of our nation. Watch. |
AMEN brother. Obama may not have started the problem. However he has made a significant contribution. I just hope this healthcare buisness does not get passed.
The answer to your original question "can we ever get out of date?". I have a better question." Can a country file bankrupcy?"
If you are in debt up to your eyeballs, it does not help to get another loan....That is a common sence lesson that congress and the Obama administration need to learn!!!!
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