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07/22/2009 09:42:25 PM · #1
Will withhold any analysis or commentary (and if the thread degrades, then I assume it will get moved to RANT), but if you are against United States socialized medicine, check out this petition and sign away (one per registered voter, not household).

http://www.freeourhealthcarenow.com/

If you're for ObamaCare, then I'm quite sure there are places where you can demonstrate your support as well (and someone can post it here).

Thanks...
07/22/2009 10:15:36 PM · #2
Stand with the President... link
07/22/2009 10:59:44 PM · #3
Okay.....so Kelli's link is an actual real organization with the endorsement of the President.

Hawkeye, your link is for what organization????

I see no information, no links, it doesn't even state who this organization actually is.

And I should support these claims why?
07/22/2009 11:32:59 PM · #4
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Okay.....so Kelli's link is an actual real organization with the endorsement of the President.

Hawkeye, your link is for what organization????

I see no information, no links, it doesn't even state who this organization actually is.

And I should support these claims why?


As stated, it's an online petition that will be forward to I believe Congress and the President expressing dissatisfaction with socialized medicine. pretty simple.
07/22/2009 11:45:29 PM · #5
what do you understand socialized medicine to be and what is the dissatisfaction with your president's proposal?
07/22/2009 11:58:48 PM · #6
Originally posted by frisca:

what do you understand socialized medicine to be and what is the dissatisfaction with your president's proposal?


As I clearly indicated, this is not a debate thread ("Will withhold any analysis or commentary"), so I will not answer that question. I believe most Americans paying attention have learned enough so far to have an opinion for or against. This is simply a good link for those who are against it. Kelly offered a link for those for it.

Enough said.
07/23/2009 12:18:43 AM · #7
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

I believe most Americans paying attention have learned enough so far to have an opinion for or against.


Paying attention to what!? I only hear big words and scaremongering. I haven't heard from either side rational explanations and side by side comparisons. Media seems incapable of providing such comparisons. You can find all kinds of side-by-side comparison web sites when buying cameras, but nobody can run objective comparison of healthcare systems.
Someone mentions socialism, and I can just say, most of these have no idea what socialism is.

This discussion is probably one of the more futile discussions I've seen. The only unfortunate thing about it is that it really shows us all what kind of thinking exists in America today. DPC may not be a scientifically acceptable sample, but it is darn close to it...

rant on...
07/23/2009 03:41:50 AM · #8
A whole thread just for a link that isn't even about photography and doesn't actually provide any information or education? Bah. What a waste of forum space.
07/23/2009 07:00:29 AM · #9
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Enough said.

Right. So, lock the thread and just move on.
07/23/2009 08:10:28 AM · #10
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Okay.....so Kelli's link is an actual real organization with the endorsement of the President.

Hawkeye, your link is for what organization????

I see no information, no links, it doesn't even state who this organization actually is.

And I should support these claims why?


Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

As stated, it's an online petition that will be forward to I believe Congress and the President expressing dissatisfaction with socialized medicine. pretty simple.

Although the effectiveness of online petitions is debatable, and those that really don't have any supporting background info at least accessible by a link on their page would tend to be avoided.....

A couple of opinions pertaining to online petitions....

www.truthorfiction.com

And....

www.npaction.org

Message edited by author 2009-07-23 12:04:35.
07/23/2009 08:51:00 AM · #11
Obama 'Grand Experiment' - YouTube
07/23/2009 09:18:07 AM · #12
Obama campaign promise - It's paid for.

Forced to purchase healthcare - yes or no? Obama campaign originally said no.

Obama campaign promise - transparent healthcare negotiations.

Distortions on health care debate.
07/23/2009 10:15:25 AM · #13
As a canadian, I'm really glad I don't have to live this debate and its consequences.

If someone wants to know the opinion of a canadian on the canadian health care system, feel free to PM me, that way I won't look like I'm giving arguments to one side or another on a public space, but only to those who actually asked for my opinion.
07/23/2009 02:23:07 PM · #14
Yeh cause something like this has never been posted until now.

Originally posted by frisca:

A whole thread just for a link that isn't even about photography and doesn't actually provide any information or education? Bah. What a waste of forum space.
07/23/2009 03:00:58 PM · #15
Round 1 to America... Pelosi and Reid have indicated that they don't have the votes to get this passed before the August recess. The "hurray up and vote without reading the bill" phase has passed. So now we have to stay on it until Fall and keep this Obamanation from ruining the country.
07/23/2009 03:30:00 PM · #16
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Round 1 to America... Pelosi and Reid have indicated that they don't have the votes to get this passed before the August recess. The "hurray up and vote without reading the bill" phase has passed. So now we have to stay on it until Fall and keep this Obamanation from ruining the country.


Yeah...like the country wasn't ruined before he took office.

Where were you the last 8 years? Read any newspapers...did ya?
07/23/2009 03:40:00 PM · #17
Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Round 1 to America... Pelosi and Reid have indicated that they don't have the votes to get this passed before the August recess. The "hurray up and vote without reading the bill" phase has passed. So now we have to stay on it until Fall and keep this Obamanation from ruining the country.


Yeah...like the country wasn't ruined before he took office.

Where were you the last 8 years? Read any newspapers...did ya?


So you advocate taking a car with a flat tire and setting fire to it to fix the tire? Hardly.
07/23/2009 04:11:32 PM · #18
A few questions (for those on both sides of the argument): (I'm Canadian so have no stake in the outcome)

1) Do you feel there is anything wrong with the current health care system? If not, what do you tell people who can't afford health insurance and don't qualify for any of the gov't programs?

2) What do you feel is wrong with the proposed plan? Is there any part of the proposed plan that you do agree with? How would you change the parts that you don't agree with?

Sticking one's head in the sand and pretending that nothing is wrong is not a solution.
07/23/2009 04:24:49 PM · #19
How about we post Obama's health care plan? Does anyone have a link to the details of it? It would be nice to see what I would pay in taxes under his plan vs what I pay in premiums today, what's covered what's not, etc. I understand the point is to try and get everyone covered so I'd expect to pay more but it sure would be nice to at least know what exactly I'm getting with his plan.

07/23/2009 04:30:38 PM · #20
Originally posted by yanko:

How about we post Obama's health care plan? Does anyone have a link to the details of it? It would be nice to see what I would pay in taxes under his plan vs what I pay in premiums today, what's covered what's not, etc. I understand the point is to try and get everyone covered so I'd expect to pay more but it sure would be nice to at least know what exactly I'm getting with his plan.


I have not read this whole thing, but it might be what you are looking for.

Health Care Blog
07/23/2009 05:21:37 PM · #21
Originally posted by BAMartin:

Originally posted by yanko:

How about we post Obama's health care plan? Does anyone have a link to the details of it? It would be nice to see what I would pay in taxes under his plan vs what I pay in premiums today, what's covered what's not, etc. I understand the point is to try and get everyone covered so I'd expect to pay more but it sure would be nice to at least know what exactly I'm getting with his plan.


I have not read this whole thing, but it might be what you are looking for.

Health Care Blog


Actually, this might give you a better understanding and it's more updated. link As far as everything I've read and heard, it would not effect your private insurance at all except to lower what you pay in premiums. If you switch jobs and your previous job had better insurance, you could opt to keep it. Unless you are making over 250k a year, it shouldn't impact your taxes either.
07/23/2009 05:26:37 PM · #22
Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by BAMartin:

Originally posted by yanko:

How about we post Obama's health care plan? Does anyone have a link to the details of it? It would be nice to see what I would pay in taxes under his plan vs what I pay in premiums today, what's covered what's not, etc. I understand the point is to try and get everyone covered so I'd expect to pay more but it sure would be nice to at least know what exactly I'm getting with his plan.


I have not read this whole thing, but it might be what you are looking for.

Health Care Blog


Actually, this might give you a better understanding and it's more updated. link As far as everything I've read and heard, it would not effect your private insurance at all except to lower what you pay in premiums. If you switch jobs and your previous job had better insurance, you could opt to keep it. Unless you are making over 250k a year, it shouldn't impact your taxes either.


Thanks. I'll look at those but is there anything more official out there besides what other people have written about it? Being self employed my premiums are pretty high. Would those go down under his plan? If so why would it if I'm on a private plan?

Message edited by author 2009-07-23 17:27:39.
07/23/2009 05:28:18 PM · #23
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by BAMartin:

Originally posted by yanko:

How about we post Obama's health care plan? Does anyone have a link to the details of it? It would be nice to see what I would pay in taxes under his plan vs what I pay in premiums today, what's covered what's not, etc. I understand the point is to try and get everyone covered so I'd expect to pay more but it sure would be nice to at least know what exactly I'm getting with his plan.


I have not read this whole thing, but it might be what you are looking for.

Health Care Blog


Actually, this might give you a better understanding and it's more updated. link As far as everything I've read and heard, it would not effect your private insurance at all except to lower what you pay in premiums. If you switch jobs and your previous job had better insurance, you could opt to keep it. Unless you are making over 250k a year, it shouldn't impact your taxes either.


Thanks. I'll look at those but is there anything more official out there besides what other people have written about it? Being self employed my premiums are pretty high. Would those go down under his plan? If so why would it if I'm on a private plan?


They should go down by at least $2500 per year. Does that help?
07/23/2009 05:32:30 PM · #24
For more "official" http://www.whitehouse.gov/ First two videos on top, and you can look under "issues - healthcare".
07/23/2009 05:33:39 PM · #25
Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by BAMartin:

Originally posted by yanko:

How about we post Obama's health care plan? Does anyone have a link to the details of it? It would be nice to see what I would pay in taxes under his plan vs what I pay in premiums today, what's covered what's not, etc. I understand the point is to try and get everyone covered so I'd expect to pay more but it sure would be nice to at least know what exactly I'm getting with his plan.


I have not read this whole thing, but it might be what you are looking for.

Health Care Blog


Actually, this might give you a better understanding and it's more updated. link As far as everything I've read and heard, it would not effect your private insurance at all except to lower what you pay in premiums. If you switch jobs and your previous job had better insurance, you could opt to keep it. Unless you are making over 250k a year, it shouldn't impact your taxes either.


Thanks. I'll look at those but is there anything more official out there besides what other people have written about it? Being self employed my premiums are pretty high. Would those go down under his plan? If so why would it if I'm on a private plan?


They should go down by at least $2500 per year. Does that help?


Where are you getting that number from?
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