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03/25/2008 04:35:45 PM · #1
Sorry if this was asked before - feel free to direct me to the thread.

I wanted to know how you all vote. Is a "5" considered a good picture, fitting into the average, and anything over has that something "extra"? Is a 6 very good, and a 7 excellent? (rare?) I haven't participated in that many challenges, and wanted to understand the collective thinking.
03/25/2008 04:41:56 PM · #2
A search of forum titles with "vote" in them yields some 40 pages of results. :-)
03/25/2008 04:52:23 PM · #3

(From previous threads)

This is how I try (very hard) to vote

1 > a technically (focus, exposure, balance, effects, lighting, sharpening, saturation, colour, cast, evidence of artifacts etc.) incompetent photo or an entirely unintelligible one (sometimes due to image size), an 'offensive' one to civilized nature or (even) a technically apt photo which 'clearly' demonstrates a 'failure of feeling'

2 > a technically lacking photo with little or no perceptible artistic (choice of subject, composition, perspective, manner, emotional energy and range, etc.) merit or interest, even when generously considered; a somewhat 'offensive' photo or a gross and inappropriate sentimentalization of feeling in the context of the challenge; the pursuit of cliché without room for even a latent interpretation (irony, allegory, metaphor etc.)

3 > a photo of mixed or questionable merit, both artistically and technically; a technically 'acceptable' one without marked artistic or journalistic interest; a sentimental or symptomatically 'commercialized' image designed to 'sell' a product or (worse! -of a person) of reasonable or considerable technical merit; a potentially 'interesting' or 'promising' photo (subject matter/perspective) with 'severe' technical flaws and/or without 'clear' intent or direction; a technically flawless image void of emotion and lacking sensory stimuli

4 > a 'pretty' photo reminiscent of many; an otherwise captivating image with one or more clearly distracting elements, either within the capture itself or via border and/or title; a technically accomplished photo relying predominantly on an idea, subject and/or title for impact; an artistically 'promising' capture with clearly noticeable technical defects, compositional issues or incongruous aesthetics; a technically 'stunning' capture otherwise bare of 'feeling' or aesthetic 'sense'

5 > a 'good' photo by most standards; one that communicates capably without necessarily teaching or exhilarating us; an artistically interesting photo pointing an unusual view, perspective or matter, even if it suffers from distinct technical 'flaws'; a technically 'stunning' capture with limiting human or artistic 'range'

6 > a remarkable image, well executed by most standards while allowing for some technical shortcomings not easily prevented or corrected; an ordinary or simple shot, perfectly timed or 'found' that tells an old story in a new way; a very personal take, a 'fresh' controversy with commotive qualities, but aesthetically 'exciting'; an image imitative within a 'classic' fashion, but well executed (i.e. landscape/portrait etc.)

7 > an outstanding photograph fit for both study and pleasure, while allowing for minor technical shortcomings, an accomplished imitation of a mode of seeing or rendering drawn or alluding to another medium including enduring snapshots or candids of remarkable human interest

8 > same as 7, but one that stimulates awareness and taxes the senses, technically accomplished, with near-imperceptible flaws, if not entirely flawless; clearly 'innovative' photographs pointing a little known interest, direction or delight

9 > same as 8, technically without a fault, but a photo which commotes 'perceived' reality to the point of restlessness and action

10 > an enduring photo that challenges the order of gods and the world, one holding its own alongside any other.

On (Challenge) Topicality

Limiting potentially immeasurable choices to a defined subject or a chosen category of photography, really, should stimulate creativity, not hamper it. Topics, IMO, are or should be there for the benefit of the photographer, not for the untaxed glee of some voters swinging a bat.

I do not penalize entries for failing to meet the challenge. I may award a higher score to a unique interpretation or to a finesse I recognize, but I cannot, in good conscience, penalize something or someone for a fault that may lie within me and not with a picture.

I have seen and continue to see perfectly good photographs here penalized for exceeding the appreciative capacity of voters to recognize an entry for the poignant topicality it may demonstrate. If I consider the photo remarkable (artistically very interesting), I may just decide to award the highest mark possible in the faint hope to compensate for a predictably overall devaluation.
03/25/2008 05:50:19 PM · #4
Thanks guys, and I found the previous threads too!! :)
03/25/2008 06:15:02 PM · #5
Originally posted by Eisbaer:

Sorry if this was asked before - feel free to direct me to the thread.

I wanted to know how you all vote. Is a "5" considered a good picture, fitting into the average, and anything over has that something "extra"? Is a 6 very good, and a 7 excellent? (rare?) I haven't participated in that many challenges, and wanted to understand the collective thinking.


zeuszen does mention but it is important to always be open minded, if you think the photo doesn't fit the challenge remember that other people may have a different take on the challenge.
03/25/2008 08:32:48 PM · #6
How I vote, by Yo Spiff. .....*Ahem*

1- totally sucks, dark blurry undersized, probably can't even make out what it is.

2- pretty bad, member who entered it may be trying for a brown ribbon.

3- The average snapshot taken by my mother or my wife

4- Shows some effort to create an interesting shot, but lacking somewhere.

5- A "nice shot". Average DPC fare, but remember that standards are tough here. Your friends and family will be telling you how good you are. Does not reach out and grab me, however.

6-Really appeals to me, but still a little short, often due to technicals or elements you had no control over.

7- Impressing me, but you don't walk on water yet.

8- A 50/50 chance that I faved this one. I really liked it, and had a hard time finding anything but minor faults.

9- Either pretty darn close to perfect, or it really impressed the heck out of me me for some reason.

10- WOW, just WOW... How do you do it?

* I try to vote on image quality, but being as art is very subjective, personal appeal does have a lesser influence. However, I won't hand a 3 to a good entry just because it is dark and brooding and might prefer bright and cheery.

* If I feel the entry to not fit the challenge, I will rate it as usual, then knock off 1 or 2 points for DNMC, depending on how far off base I think it was. I feel this does not penalize an image too much for an interpretation I failed to appreciate, but it does provide some ding for shoehorns.
...And I know shoehorns!
629898.jpg

Message edited by author 2008-03-25 20:36:31.
03/25/2008 09:07:17 PM · #7
How do I vote?

I don't let the left side of my brain vote on something that should be judged by the right.
03/25/2008 09:13:40 PM · #8
Originally posted by SDW:

How do I vote?

I don't let the left side of my brain vote on something that should be judged by the right.


:-D
03/25/2008 09:59:04 PM · #9
Originally posted by yospiff:

How I vote, by Yo Spiff. .....*Ahem*

1- totally sucks, dark blurry undersized, probably can't even make out what it is.

2- pretty bad, member who entered it may be trying for a brown ribbon.

3- The average snapshot taken by my mother or my wife

4- Shows some effort to create an interesting shot, but lacking somewhere.

5- A "nice shot". Average DPC fare, but remember that standards are tough here. Your friends and family will be telling you how good you are. Does not reach out and grab me, however.

6-Really appeals to me, but still a little short, often due to technicals or elements you had no control over.

7- Impressing me, but you don't walk on water yet.

8- A 50/50 chance that I faved this one. I really liked it, and had a hard time finding anything but minor faults.

9- Either pretty darn close to perfect, or it really impressed the heck out of me me for some reason.

10- WOW, just WOW... How do you do it?

* I try to vote on image quality, but being as art is very subjective, personal appeal does have a lesser influence. However, I won't hand a 3 to a good entry just because it is dark and brooding and might prefer bright and cheery.

* If I feel the entry to not fit the challenge, I will rate it as usual, then knock off 1 or 2 points for DNMC, depending on how far off base I think it was. I feel this does not penalize an image too much for an interpretation I failed to appreciate, but it does provide some ding for shoehorns.
...And I know shoehorns!
629898.jpg


Well done yospiff! I agree 100%! Couldnt have said it better! 10 ;)
03/25/2008 10:01:41 PM · #10
Originally posted by yospiff:


* If I feel the entry to not fit the challenge, I will rate it as usual, then knock off 1 or 2 points for DNMC, depending on how far off base I think it was. I feel this does not penalize an image too much for an interpretation I failed to appreciate, but it does provide some ding for shoehorns.
...And I know shoehorns!
629898.jpg


By your standards you are saying you will give someone a 3 instead of a 5 or a 4 instead of a 6 and you believe it doesn't penalize an image too much? I guess technically it might not if you vote 100% in all the challenges you vote in.

What if your "feeling" was inactuate due to your lack of knowledge about a particular subject? Would you change your vote if your "feeling" was proved incorrect or say if you were able to read the story behind the picture while voting? Do you go back after voting and check out the ones you felt did not fit the challenge to see if there was any additional info about the image?

I guess my point is that I see all too often people who are "dinged" for other's perception/interpretation of what the challenge is "supposed" to be. A perfect example is the recent Pollution challenge. There were quite a few entries (myself included) who went with the Light Pollution theme. Light pollution is a valid and very real form of pollution although I saw many comments where people "felt" it did not meet the challenge.

From Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution: Light pollution, includes light trespass, over-illumination and astronomical interference.

And an entry dedicated solely to Light Pollution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pollution

And a little more for your reading pleasure - http://www.starrynightlights.com/lpIndex.html

My favorite from that challenge and my highest rated photo was Metropolis Emissions 656295.jpg by 21.gif AP and it finished 19th.

Maybe we all shouldn't be quick to judge on what we think the challenge is supposed to be.
03/25/2008 10:05:07 PM · #11
I think 21_N.gif zeuszen's voting strategy is quite good. :)
03/25/2008 10:05:49 PM · #12
Some people give a 1 if they don't think it meets the challenge. I think I'd rather yospiff's 3 or 4. :)
03/25/2008 10:09:39 PM · #13
I don't use the scale below a 4. Everything is a 4 or higher. A 4 simply does not meet the challenge AND is not at all photographically redeeming. If it meets the challenge or has some quality to it, it gets at least a 5 from me.

03/25/2008 10:10:03 PM · #14
Originally posted by secretagent65:

I think 21_N.gif zeuszen's voting strategy is quite good. :)


Interesting. I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I can't resist.

You are calling yospiff to task for dinging a point or two.
You like zeuszen's voting strategy.

yospiff has a voting average of 5.7.
zeus has an average of 3.5

I'll take my chances with yospiff's interpretation, I think. :)
03/25/2008 10:12:22 PM · #15
Originally posted by karmat:

Some people give a 1 if they don't think it meets the challenge. I think I'd rather yospiff's 3 or 4. :)


Point taken ;-)

Not trying to pick on 21.gif yospiff though, he just happened to be in the right place for a good example.
03/25/2008 10:16:47 PM · #16
Originally posted by karmat:

zeus has an average of 3.5


What can I say... I like his wording. *shrugs* Doesn't mean I'll apply the numbers quite the same. :)
03/25/2008 10:48:38 PM · #17
Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by secretagent65:

I think 21_N.gif zeuszen's voting strategy is quite good. :)


Interesting. I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I can't resist.

You are calling yospiff to task for dinging a point or two.
You like zeuszen's voting strategy.

yospiff has a voting average of 5.7.
zeus has an average of 3.5

I'll take my chances with yospiff's interpretation, I think. :)


Fair enough, but
you may wish to consider this:
Of the two who, do you think,

would leave you more room to grow?
Of the two, whose 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10

would you value more?

03/25/2008 10:50:31 PM · #18


as of the last few months

7 if I don't like
8 if I kinda like it
9 if I like it
10 if I really like it

Message edited by author 2008-03-25 22:51:11.
03/25/2008 10:56:19 PM · #19
Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by secretagent65:

I think 21_N.gif zeuszen's voting strategy is quite good. :)


Interesting. I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I can't resist.

You are calling yospiff to task for dinging a point or two.
You like zeuszen's voting strategy.

yospiff has a voting average of 5.7.
zeus has an average of 3.5

I'll take my chances with yospiff's interpretation, I think. :)


Which is it that you have a problem with... the "voting strategy" or the "scoring"?

Judging by your comments I would hazard to guess the "Scoring", which in itself does not address the strategy aspect of the exercise.

Ray
03/25/2008 11:14:26 PM · #20
Was your comment for me or karmat? You quoted us both.
03/25/2008 11:24:51 PM · #21
Originally posted by secretagent65:

Was your comment for me or karmat? You quoted us both.


Hell, I don't know.

(for karmat)
03/25/2008 11:34:01 PM · #22
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by secretagent65:

Was your comment for me or karmat? You quoted us both.


Hell, I don't know.

(for karmat)


LOL My question was for Ray... I too should have specified.
03/25/2008 11:54:57 PM · #23
Originally posted by secretagent65:

By your standards you are saying you will give someone a 3 instead of a 5 or a 4 instead of a 6 and you believe it doesn't penalize an image too much? I guess technically it might not if you vote 100% in all the challenges you vote in.


Exactly right. I voted and commented that way on the pollution entry you pointed out. I gave it a 6. If it was a "Cityscape" or "Night Lights" challenge, It would have received a 7, perhaps an 8 from me. It was an otherwise excellent entry, and I did see the intended connection with pollution. It was not a shoehorn, but I felt it did not illustrate the theme, and I also let the member know that in my comments. It lost 1 or 2 points from me out of 242 people that voted on it. That only makes a difference if a lot of others vote the same way. Judging from the other comments, that is exactly what happened. I think that is fair and keeps shoehorning to a minimum. There are some who will automatically slam an entry with 1 if the person feels it does not meet the theme.

As another example, take this image:
104741.jpg
It scored a 2.29, because of being (accidentally) entered in the "team sports" challenge. Would it have been fair to the other entrants if it won a ribbon when it was totally off topic? an extreme example, to be sure.

I still believe my scoring is fair. Coming in 19th, with a score of 6.29 is pretty darn good, especially when so many people thought it did not fit the theme. Awfully good work on that one. I really like it.

Message edited by author 2008-03-25 23:57:48.
03/26/2008 12:09:34 AM · #24
Originally posted by secretagent65:

Not trying to pick on 21.gif yospiff though, he just happened to be in the right place for a good example.


As were you! It is an interesting discussion. Everybody's standards are different and this discussion is helping to explain some of the voting that does do not make sense to me. Zueszen obviously is much more critical. Though his description of his voting roughly matches mine, he clearly judges differently.
03/26/2008 12:19:38 AM · #25
I keep it simple:

1,2,3 - Three levels of "doesn't meet the challenge".

4,5,6 - Three levels of "meets the challenge".

7,8,9,10 - Meets the challenge with four levels of "WOW".

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