All Editing should be allowed - Prove me Wrong!

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

03/10/2004 06:44:57 PM · #152

that rope picture says he used his laptop as a backdrop... so what are you talking about.. he didn't do any photo editing. Im gonna stop. because some people just can't

See the Light.

03/10/2004 06:48:51 PM · #153

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
This image is a great metaphorical example. It clearly shows that the weak arguements against editing are barely hanging on by a thread. :)

After all is said and done here, I still don't understand what your argument is.

The arguement is simple. Use the available tools and we will see more good and creative images faster.

Message edited by author 2004-03-10 18:55:14.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/10/2004 06:52:15 PM · #154

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
This image is a great metaphorical example. It clearly shows that the weak arguements against editing are barely hanging on by a thread. :)

After all is said and done here, I still don't understand what your argument is.

The arguement is simple. Use the available tools and we will see more good and create images faster.

So your argument is that having half of the site the way you want it isn't sufficient, you want it all your way?

dsa157

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

03/10/2004 06:54:52 PM · #155

Originally posted by louddog:

Not bad photos to start with, but all photos that would not have done too well in the basic editing rules challenge (this is just off the top of my head):
Dec Free Study, 1st place
Your Shadow, 1st place
Things that go together, 1st place
Painting with light, 4th place

Nice job finding some good examples for discussion, louddog! We have discussed all of these photos in other threads before, but now they can be considered under this discussion together.

I maintain the following about each of these:

1. The underlying photograph was of high quality. All basic standards of good photography (ie, well focused, good exposure, strong compositional elements, strong dynamic range, etc) are present in these images. In the case where the manipulation of the image was not immediately apparent (removing the cage, adding the "laser olive", most of us were impressed enough with the result that the image was either awarded a ribbon or scored very highly as you have pointed out.

In the case of "December Free Study", how can one argue that crabappl3 is not an exceptional photographer? With or without the cage, the details on the bird are exceptional! He made it even better with his editting. To produce an image like that takes tremendous skill as a photographer as well as a Photoshop user.

Dave

rickhd13

Sigma 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 DL Aspherical IF Hyperzoom for Canon

03/10/2004 06:58:50 PM · #156

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Honestly the only thing that pissed anyone off about this photo is the fact that he mentioned the word PhotoShop.

There is absolutely nothing sneaky or underhanded about this at all. This is not a creation of digital art. This is a photograph. So the backdrop was created in PS, who cares?? Would it have been a better photograph to all the anti-PS crowd if he said that he spent 10 hours handpainting a piece of plexiglass to get a perfect circle of the color of his liking and then rigged up an elaborate lighting system behind it to get the desired sunburst effect?

Don't get me wrong, as I am all in favor of editing a photo as long as it still looks like a photo but as far as this site is concerend it seems simple enough to me...work within the rules as they are outlined. The advanced editing is pretty much a free for all with the exception of the text and multi photo compositions.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the only person you really need to please with your photography or your digital art is yourself. If you like it, that is really all that matters. Keep in mind that the prize for winning a weekly challenge here is not wads and wads of cash....its a collection of little blue, red or yellow pixels in the shape of a ribbon...which in & of themselves could be considered digital art...but thats a whole nother thread :)

jab119

Canon EOS-70D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

03/10/2004 07:00:10 PM · #157

Originally posted by stdavidson:

in the members challenges what tools CANT be used???

as far as member challenges with Advanced editing rules you can use anything you want so your argument should end here for members challenges with advanced editing rules. The only 2 things you CANT do is add text and use multiple images.

now for the Basic editing rules for the open challenges, what tools CANT be used.

tells us Steve, tell us what tools cant be used and explain why the open challenge for non-paid members should be able to use these tools.

you are a paid member so im not sure what your problem is with the rules unless you just like arguing about stuff and ruffle peoples feathers.

James

Message edited by author 2004-03-10 19:04:12.

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

03/10/2004 07:29:49 PM · #158

Originally posted by dsa157:

In the case of "December Free Study", how can one argue that crabappl3 is not an exceptional photographer? With or without the cage, the details on the bird are exceptional! He made it even better with his editting. To produce an image like that takes tremendous skill as a photographer as well as a Photoshop user.

Dave

I don't believe I ever said crabapple wasn't an exceptional photographer. I simply said they were not bad photos to start and they wouldn't have scored as well with the basic editing rules.

03/10/2004 07:29:55 PM · #159

Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by stdavidson:
This image is a great metaphorical example. It clearly shows that the weak arguements against editing are barely hanging on by a thread. :)

After all is said and done here, I still don't understand what your argument is.

The arguement is simple. Use the available tools and we will see more good and creative images faster.

So your argument is that having half of the site the way you want it isn't sufficient, you want it all your way?

MK... the suggestion is to see more, better images and improved photography. Editing tools allow that. They are now and forever will be an intimate part of photography.

Having a "soft focus" challenge like we did without allowing digital soft focusing filters is... well, silly. How many of the pictures taken with panty hose over the lenses would have been done much better by simply applying an adjustable filter instead?

03/10/2004 07:47:19 PM · #160

Originally posted by jab119:

now for the Basic editing rules for the open challenges, what tools CANT be used.

tells us Steve, tell us what tools cant be used and explain why the open challenge for non-paid members should be able to use these tools.

you are a paid member so im not sure what your problem is with the rules unless you just like arguing about stuff and ruffle peoples feathers.

In basic editing most all PS filters are not allowed, most layering and masking, cloning in all its forms and modifications to selected areas of the image are not allowed. That is just for starters.

Personally, I think it is punishment enough for non-members not to be able to use the little update button to check their scores and exclusion from member challenges.

03/10/2004 08:01:42 PM · #161

Originally posted by dsa157:

Originally posted by louddog:

Not bad photos to start with, but all photos that would not have done too well in the basic editing rules challenge (this is just off the top of my head):
Dec Free Study, 1st place
Your Shadow, 1st place
Things that go together, 1st place
Painting with light, 4th place

Nice job finding some good examples for discussion, louddog!

...

Dave

Louddog sites and dsa157 provides solid reasons for allowing open editing. You two are so smart!

03/10/2004 08:07:54 PM · #162

Originally posted by littlegett:

My suggestion. in my personal opinion is to just follow the rules and drive on. because you only make yourself look foolish.

I pride myself on my foolishness. Iknow, I know... I need therapy.

Message edited by author 2004-03-10 20:11:41.

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

03/10/2004 08:20:29 PM · #163

I'm very disappointed.

I expected more personal attacks for defending an unpopular view.

So far no one has posted compromising nude photos of me, made disparaging remarks about my mother or suggested that I tie tin cans on cat tails. Heck, you haven't even tracked down my prison record yet.

You need to get with the program. How else can I be discredited?

jab119

Canon EOS-70D

03/10/2004 08:22:37 PM · #164

Originally posted by stdavidson:

well then those who are NON paid members need to pay up to use the tools. or just use whats available in the basic rules and be happy with that.

if DPC allowed everyone the ability to use the advance rules, then what benefit would there be to being a paid member....then DPC would probably not be around much longer since it cost money to store all the images and the bandwidth use to view the DPC site.

and I doubt Drew and Langdon will foot the bill alone to support this site

James

Message edited by author 2004-03-10 20:29:52.

jab119

Canon EOS-70D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

03/10/2004 08:37:45 PM · #165

Originally posted by stdavidson:

you asked for it

I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper!
I fart in your general direction!
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

now go away before I taunt you a second time.

James

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

03/10/2004 08:52:35 PM · #166

Originally posted by stdavidson:

I challenge all you naysayers to identify even one situation where strict photographic integrity is not maintained by allowing any and all possible photo digital editing techniques.

Your job, should you choose to accept it, is to prove that I am wrong.

Remember, if you or any of your DPC team should be killed or captured by my dazzling logic, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions!

Go ahead, make my day...

This is a " Digital PHOTOGRAPHY contest",not digital art contest and I think the rules are too liberal here!

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

03/10/2004 09:22:42 PM · #167

Originally posted by jab119:

Thanks! I needed that.

Hayane

Canon PowerShot A60

03/10/2004 09:55:11 PM · #168

Originally posted by littlegett:

Ugh, I got tired readding all of these replys to a very simple question.

This site is dedicated to Digital Photography. These contests are being judged by your peers for your digital photography essances captured by your digital camera.

I don't see where this site is called digital photo malipulation contest. Nor, does it say Digital Editing contest.

Plain and simple. The admints/owners of this site created a place to showcase digital photos. also they set the ground rules on which this site is governed.

Thus, do it their way. or find another site, or create your own site.

I have a horrible camera and I love to malipulate photos. Doing the unreal to something that was real. Its fun. Yet, I abide by the rules here. Which in turn is helping me to become a better photographer. There are so much you can do 'setting up a picture' to make the unreal real.

My suggestion. in my personal opinion is to just follow the rules and drive on. because you only make yourself look foolish.

Although I do have another suggestion. Write to the admins asking to do an contest with fool editing. maybe once every couple of months. That would have been a better way to use your energy.

I agree completely. Your camera is still worth x2 more than mine (yep it's *that* bad), so digital editing would be a great help for me. But I certainly advocate limited, if any, editing -- and I find that knowing I want to minimize my editing also forces me to think more about the way I want to take my photographs. But this is just a good by-product. The main reason I advocate limited editing, as I've outlined below, is theoretical :)

unknowndeath

Pentax K10D

11/23/2005 03:28:07 PM · #169

Does it matter if you change the image because it is already changed once it is captured nothing is going to be static even in the photojournlistic sense. I say add whatever you wish to any image as long as it adds some artic and intrensic value to the image's meaning. As far as photojournalism goes everything is already out of context because images are based on personal experience and perspective of the definitive moment. The proof of this lays in the DPC photo archive look at all the interpetations that everyone takes for the same topic one might think it makes no sense while another sees that same image and understands it clear as if visually sweating out the truth of the seen. It matters very little I think to have all editing or not as long as the final imagine is one that makes sense.