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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> An Unhappy Model Critiques the "Professional".
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 128, (reverse)
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12/29/2007 02:16:18 PM · #26
It's definitely possible to get square catchlights without studio lighting. I got these catchlights with a window.
521872.jpg
12/29/2007 02:56:43 PM · #27
We went to look at my kids senior pictures a few days ago. They were good, but I resent the feeling of a no-choice obligation to purchase a package of photos costing hundreds of dollars. If I refuse them, my daughter will be upset. I do not have the skill with portraits to want to do it myself at this point.
12/29/2007 03:13:26 PM · #28
After all of this, my mom still paid this guy over $700 for all the portraits we got. She loves them, so I guess that's ok; they are worth $700 to her. This still doesn't change the fact that this photographer is getting a ridiculous amount of money for a minimalist effort and little artistic insight. With enough practice and set up, I am confident that I could match and surpass the quality of his photos, and I am only an amateur.

In conclusion: client happy, subject not, photographer makes a living.

My advice to the guy is go out and try and make a living out photography and after 3 or 4 years come back and have another look at the article. It is a whole lot harder in the real world instead of being on the outside looking in.
12/29/2007 03:15:48 PM · #29
"my eyes are not blue."

that's hilarious!

Message edited by author 2007-12-29 18:08:23.
12/29/2007 03:18:52 PM · #30
I still think it was a put on or made up story. I've been on the internet too long to take anything at face value, especially when the red flags go off when I read an article like this and how it was written. You don't just "pick up a few books" and learn the jargon, buzz words, techniques, etc., on some of this stuff. At least the vast majority don't. Maybe he's different... in which case, he will go far in life and he shouldn't worry about a messily $700.

That's my opinion and gut feeling on this.

Mike
12/29/2007 03:20:07 PM · #31
Originally posted by MikeJ:

I still think it was a put on or made up story. I've been on the internet too long to take anything at face value, especially when the red flags go off when I read an article like this and how it was written. You don't just "pick up a few books" and learn the jargon, buzz words, techniques, etc., on some of this stuff. At least the vast majority don't. Maybe he's different... in which case, he will go far in life and he shouldn't worry about a messily $700.

That's my opinion and gut feeling on this.

Mike


I disagree. Everything I've learned about photography has been from reading books (and Internet sites).
12/29/2007 03:23:23 PM · #32
Originally posted by karmat:

Originally posted by MikeJ:

I still think it was a put on or made up story. I've been on the internet too long to take anything at face value, especially when the red flags go off when I read an article like this and how it was written. You don't just "pick up a few books" and learn the jargon, buzz words, techniques, etc., on some of this stuff. At least the vast majority don't. Maybe he's different... in which case, he will go far in life and he shouldn't worry about a messily $700.

That's my opinion and gut feeling on this.

Mike


I disagree. Everything I've learned about photography has been from reading books (and Internet sites).

I've learned a couple of things by reading.
12/29/2007 03:26:44 PM · #33
Why is everyone picking on the model? Have you looked at the photo, he's right, it's terrible!

Fair enough some people always think they can do better than a "professional", but doesn't mean you have to defend the bad apples...

Just my 2 cents.
12/29/2007 03:48:19 PM · #34
Originally posted by rob_smith:

Why is everyone picking on the model? Have you looked at the photo, he's right, it's terrible!

Fair enough some people always think they can do better than a "professional", but doesn't mean you have to defend the bad apples...

Just my 2 cents.

I do my best to pick on everyone equally.
12/29/2007 03:48:41 PM · #35
Originally posted by rob_smith:

Why is everyone picking on the model? Have you looked at the photo, he's right, it's terrible!

Fair enough some people always think they can do better than a "professional", but doesn't mean you have to defend the bad apples...

Just my 2 cents.


If I were to guess, it's to keep expectations low so the customer can continue to be sold a load of crap. I swear, sometimes I wonder if I'm at a used car salesman forum and not a photography forum.
12/29/2007 03:52:03 PM · #36
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by rob_smith:

Why is everyone picking on the model? Have you looked at the photo, he's right, it's terrible!

Fair enough some people always think they can do better than a "professional", but doesn't mean you have to defend the bad apples...

Just my 2 cents.


If I were to guess, it's to keep expectations low so the customer can continue to be sold a load of crap. I swear, sometimes I wonder if I'm at a used car salesman forum and not a photography forum.

I fealt the picking was pretty evenly spread... ? But, I'm not a photographer, nor a salesman. ;-)
12/29/2007 03:54:08 PM · #37
Projector sales - it's the way to do it these days with so many image thefts. Sell on emotion - yes, exactly. It's called the Photography BUSINESS for a reason. I'm sure the photographer know a good image, and can make them just fine. But not in volume, and profitably.
I did other proofing- the projector TRIPLED my average sale.

I seriously doubt the photog mentioned the cost of a lens- the 'gear' maybe (1Ds and 70-200 2.8 IS is $10,000...). If the customer brings it up, then maybe yeah, something is discussed.

His talk of composition and connection is true. Many photogs don't have the ability to make that connection to every client, every day. Few people do. I try, and usually get some natural expressions. As to that pose or what have you - no one can spend all day shooting one client, and I don't know what YOU the client might like or not like. Mom likes B&W, dad hates B&W. Now what do I do? Mom made the girl bring a dress, so yes, she hates every dress pic. Mom wants the boy to smile in every image, he wants a smirk in every image. Guess what? Neither will be completely happy with every image. Duh!

How many poses/shots did the photog take? IF they kid didn't like this one, then why did you buy it? (or did he scan his least favorite proof to show?)

Lighting...it's a high key image fool - it's supposed to look like this! IMO it's a tad too red, but some photogs do that intentionally - it's their style or look. Don't like it? THen you should have spent more time picking a photog whose style matched your wants.

Softening..had the photog done nothing the kid would have surely complained about that too. SHAVE! Stubble is hard to remove. Softening? Many photogs do it, use actions or whatnot routinely. I don't. That's MY style. Again, look at the sample images BEFORE you pick a photog. The mole? Acne...who knows. Artistic license! Tell him you want it back on , and i'm sure you can have your mole back.

His self portrait...underexposed, whites of eyes are red, acne on the face and forehead. Skintone is more natural, but very snapshottish in look. Pose wise ... he needs to turn more to his right (hide the ear) and tilt down a bit (nostrils). The BG adds nothing to the image, so therefore it distracts. If we're nit picking on then lets do the other...

$700 is NOT ridiculous. It's on the low end of average for most full time senior photogs using projection, depending on the market. I know photogs geting FOUR TIMES that on average and doing 300 seniors a year! And yes, they work the images every bit that much, or more.

Message edited by ClubJuggle - Please refrain from personal attacks..
12/29/2007 03:57:12 PM · #38
Originally posted by MikeJ:

I still think it was a put on or made up story. I've been on the internet too long to take anything at face value, especially when the red flags go off when I read an article like this and how it was written. You don't just "pick up a few books" and learn the jargon, buzz words, techniques, etc., on some of this stuff. At least the vast majority don't. Maybe he's different... in which case, he will go far in life and he shouldn't worry about a messily $700.

That's my opinion and gut feeling on this.

Mike


I wrote the article and I assure you it's not made up. I wish I remember the names of the two books I picked up. One of them was especially helpful. It was written for film photography (when you used polaroids to check how the lighting would look, not LCD screens). It essentially had a picture on one page then a diagram of the lighting used on the other. It talked a little about stops and what kind of light boxes or reflectors to use (which I still don't 100% understand), but it did get me thinking about light before I take a picture and what light makes what look.

As far as the name of the photographer, I chose not to include it because my goal wasn't to warn people about this specific photographer. I would rather them go to their photographer and make their own judgement based on what they learned from my article.
12/29/2007 04:09:37 PM · #39
nm, it's not worth the pixels

Message edited by author 2007-12-29 16:10:30.
12/29/2007 04:13:03 PM · #40
Originally posted by karmat:

nm, it's not worth the pixels

heh, I saw it. I'd buy you a beer if you were here. ;-)
12/29/2007 04:13:07 PM · #41
Originally posted by karmat:

nm, it's not worth the pixels


But, but pixels are cheap. I've got some to spare if you are running low :-D
12/29/2007 04:21:20 PM · #42
Well, I guess it comes down to been strong enough to NOT BUY what you don't like and do some up front work rather then wasting both your time with stuff you don't want (although you bought it anyway).

Wow $700 price = $700 pure profit... imagine, I could sell 4 cars for $25K and make a 100K per year :roll: Damn, I am in the wrong job.

Kid - Sometimes you don't get what you pay for but you rarely get what you want without paying.

Message edited by author 2007-12-29 16:22:53.
12/29/2007 04:27:01 PM · #43
Originally posted by robs:

Wow $700 price = $700 pure profit... imagine, I could sell 4 cars for $25K and make a 100K per year :roll: Damn, I am in the wrong job.



Uhh... $700 price means $700 towards the thousands of $$ worth of gear youve purchased to run your business.
12/29/2007 04:27:12 PM · #44
It's the same old problem: client wants X (portrait, wedding, whatever), photog has a style and charges whatever, yet other people moan from the sidelines even if both of the main people in the transaction are happy.

Don't like that style? Don't do it yourself and don't pay others for it. But where is it written every portrait has to be made to your specifications ("you" in this case is everyone who complained about the portrait in the article, not just the kid)?

But I do have to say that changing his eye color is ridiculous.

Mike, if your only intent in your article is to draw distinctions and educate people, then you need to tone down your rhetoric. The message I got was "don't get ripped off for this crap," not "be aware of what different styles exist and choose what you like."
12/29/2007 04:41:20 PM · #45
Originally posted by levyj413:

But I do have to say that changing his eye color is ridiculous.


Why is that ridiculous? It's just his style! Don't judge his work man. He isn't a kid he's a pro so it must be good. :P

ETA: Well I'm assuming the pro is a he. Sorry I watched the Shot on VH1 and Dean said all the good ones are guys or something like that. :P

Message edited by author 2007-12-29 16:42:29.
12/29/2007 04:51:53 PM · #46
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by levyj413:

But I do have to say that changing his eye color is ridiculous.


Why is that ridiculous? It's just his style! Don't judge his work man. He isn't a kid he's a pro so it must be good. :P

ETA: Well I'm assuming the pro is a he. Sorry I watched the Shot on VH1 and Dean said all the good ones are guys or something like that. :P

My bet is that the eyes changed colour during a curves adjustment and the photog didn't notice. Not on purpose. Pretty embarrassing for the photog, I'd think.
12/29/2007 05:32:48 PM · #47
I think it's a fascinating article! I've been attempting to learn some portrait-style photography myself, lately, and I know portraits aren't an easy task. I've also learned that there's a special distinction between the shots I like, the shots my subject likes, and what everyone who knows the subject likes, so it's really quite the minefield!

But that doesn't mean there aren't some goofy photographers out there. I'm still distinctly displeased with my own senior portrait, though my dad loves them. And at my school, we had the choice of only one photography studio if we wanted to be included in the yearbook and we were required to choose a package prior to taking any shots! It was quite the rip off, in my own opinion (especially since I still have a large bag full of wallets that we never gave to anyone), but that's just how some things go.

My points - Portraits are hard work, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some people who do 'em that suck.
12/29/2007 05:39:51 PM · #48
Mothers want shots that make their baby (of any age) look like they think they look; the most beautiful in the world. The babies (as they get older) want shots that show WHO they are.
Two totally different things, so who does the studio shoot for? The ones paying the bill.

eta; Anyone notice he's added dpc's mentions and edits (credited, of course)? :)

Message edited by author 2007-12-29 17:47:52.
12/29/2007 06:02:18 PM · #49
Well the article is fake, I think its pretty obvious! Just look at the language used and how its written. The guy has no clue how to take a picture then all the sudden he reads a few books and he wants to tell the reader what makes a good photo.
12/29/2007 06:05:45 PM · #50
Originally posted by MikeJ:

I still think it was a put on or made up story. I've been on the internet too long to take anything at face value, especially when the red flags go off when I read an article like this and how it was written. You don't just "pick up a few books" and learn the jargon, buzz words, techniques, etc., on some of this stuff. At least the vast majority don't. Maybe he's different... in which case, he will go far in life and he shouldn't worry about a messily $700.

That's my opinion and gut feeling on this.

Mike


I don't know anything about this guy, other than he seems incredibly smart and that he answers his email pretty fast. But from what I've read of his blog, I really don't see the stretch from picking up a few books to talking intelligently about photography. If he has an ulterior motive, I certainly can't figure it out. His agenda seems to fit in perfectly with his other articles (which are all about things that pertain to a guy his age).

A "troll" is someone who cruises forums looking to shake things up. This guy posted in his blog and it got picked up by a reddit user. I don't understand how this could be considered trolling?

Now, to the photographer's defense. Senior picture taking must be very challenging and artistically unrewarding. He/She has probably gotten a thousand requests from moms to make their darling angels look flawless and from subjects to get rid of those zits etc.

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