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11/19/2007 10:06:18 PM · #1
Not sure if those are the right words but anyone got a good blurb I can print & sign to allow anyone to print images if they are hassled at any of the express printing places?

Not that there is much of a chance of them caring :-/ but did a shoot with a couple of models and I wanted to include that on the CD (it's a TFCD type of deal).
11/19/2007 10:50:12 PM · #2
Wal-Mart's release pamphlet says:

"Title of Photograph(s):__________________________
Description of Photograph(s):____________________
I certify that I am the legal copyright author for the photo(s) described above. I authorize Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. to make copies of the photo(s) described above as set forth in the following:
Number of Copies/Sizes:________________________
Date Permission Expires:________________________
Copyright Author Name (Printed):__________________
Copyright Author Signature:_______________________
Address:_____________________________________
Phone:_______________________________________
Date:________________________________________"

Make changes as necessary, type this up, print it off (preferably on your letter head or with a studio logo), and sign each one individually.

Hope this helps,
-drew
11/20/2007 12:33:15 AM · #3
that's a good idea. I shot a model TFCD last year and wal-mart wouldn't print the images until they had something in writing from me
11/20/2007 09:59:28 AM · #4
Originally posted by doug61853:

...and wal-mart wouldn't print the images until they had something in writing from me

Didn't quite work that well at my Wal-Mart. I shot some family pictures, they paid for full sized images on a CD, she went to Wal-Mart to print some 8x10's. Wal-Mart printed them, looked at them, and decided not to sell them to her becuase they looked professional. She gave them my signed printing release with all my contact information, they still refused because "It wasn't on professional looking letterhead, and the customer could have printed the release at home." My client said, "Well I can go home and print it on professional letterhead if you want :p " They didn't like that very much.

She pointed out my cell phone number on the release and asked them to call me...they refused. She called me the next day to tell me the story. I called the photo lab, they still refused to sell her the prints, so I talked to the store manager. I cleared it with him for her to purchase the prints, so I called her back to tell her I was sorry for the hassle and she could pick up her pictures. Appearantly the store manager chewed some butts at the photo lab, because my client didn't have to pay for the huge stack of 8x10's and 5x7's. She made out like a bandit.

From now on I will incorporate the verbage from Wal-Mart's pamphlet on letterhead in all my releases. Now I just have to design a letterhead!
11/20/2007 10:01:23 AM · #5
Originally posted by drewbixcube:

Originally posted by doug61853:

...and wal-mart wouldn't print the images until they had something in writing from me

Didn't quite work that well at my Wal-Mart. I shot some family pictures, they paid for full sized images on a CD, she went to Wal-Mart to print some 8x10's. Wal-Mart printed them, looked at them, and decided not to sell them to her becuase they looked professional. She gave them my signed printing release with all my contact information, they still refused because "It wasn't on professional looking letterhead, and the customer could have printed the release at home." My client said, "Well I can go home and print it on professional letterhead if you want :p " They didn't like that very much.

She pointed out my cell phone number on the release and asked them to call me...they refused. She called me the next day to tell me the story. I called the photo lab, they still refused to sell her the prints, so I talked to the store manager. I cleared it with him for her to purchase the prints, so I called her back to tell her I was sorry for the hassle and she could pick up her pictures. Appearantly the store manager chewed some butts at the photo lab, because my client didn't have to pay for the huge stack of 8x10's and 5x7's. She made out like a bandit.

From now on I will incorporate the verbage from Wal-Mart's pamphlet on letterhead in all my releases. Now I just have to design a letterhead!


How about putting your release in the exif/iptc data on each image along with your contact info?
11/20/2007 10:24:26 AM · #6
I don't know that putting in the EXIF will work for most type of wal-marts, etc.

I've dealt with them more than i like to remember. Until they finally "learned" me, it was "ugly."

I finally took in a sheet (on very not professional letterhead) that gave Karma Shuford permission to print the pictures. Signed, Karma Shuford. That got their attention (and left a couple of them scratching their heads).

My favorite line -- We do this to protect you, the professional.

My retort -- Perhaps, indirectly. BUT it is more Wal-Mart protecting Wal-Mart's butt.

They also wanted me, at one point, to bring in my memory card with the originals on them. When I pointed out that the originals weren't on the memory card, because the pictures I was printing covered over a year, they were absolutely astounded. I didn't know why until a few weeks ago. I met someone who talked about how many memory cards she had archiving her shots. I asked her why and she said that when she filled one up, she would date it, file it and buy another one. :/
11/20/2007 11:16:10 AM · #7
Here's a copy of the wording from my printing release form.

***

Customer Name and Address:

Date of Sitting:

Subjects: (Full names of all people in photos if available)

Description - (example: 50 photos presented in both B&W and color formats. Three children, Outdoor shoot. Photo-journal/documentary style.)

I, JENNIFER JONES grant unlimited printing release to (Customer Name). This release is fully transferable by the above named FOR PRINTING ONLY, and a copy of this document should be considered adequate proof of release by the printer. This release does not include rights of sale, nor is permission granted for contest entry without written permission from Jennifer Jones. Reproduction rights of described photography transfered only if signed addendum to this form has been provided by the above named customer. Copyright is retained by Jennifer Jones for the above described photos.

Note for printer: If further information is needed per your company policy or verbal confirmation, please do not hesitate to call the above number. THANK YOU!

Signature _________________ Date: ___________________

For Customer Use:
Transfered to:
Signature ----------- Date ----------


I print this on company letterhead, and all of the major chain's have been more than accepting of the form. I received one call from a small framing and printing company who asked me to fax over a blanket release as well to cover themselves.

Hope that helps!

11/20/2007 12:03:19 PM · #8
Just go into the store with your camera and tell them in no uncertain terms if they do not print your photos they will need a plastic surgeon to remove your camera from their ass. Sometimes it works, Sometimes you get a ticket or maybe even arrested. Or you could take the easy way out and copy this form You will have to change some of the info, But it should work at both stores.

Message edited by author 2007-11-20 12:05:16.
11/20/2007 01:31:42 PM · #9
I got a call yesterday from a client (bride) whose wedding I shot back in july. Seems walmart won't copy the images (prints) for her to make Christmas cards.

GOOD! They are doing what they are supposed to be doing!

It's the customer that is stealing - although I doubt she thinks of it like that. I told her I'd be happy to print up whatever she wants and I'll work out a good price for her. Or I would sell her a digital file she could use.
Some people are just too damned cheap. The cost difference is $20 or less -and I'll bet she has a credit with me that she could use - so it's likely to cost her NOTHING.
But she thinks she's going to 'beat the system' and I guess that makes her happy, and I know she considers herself a good Christian...but that's not my definition of it.

Hooray for Walmart!
11/20/2007 01:35:09 PM · #10
Originally posted by karmat:

I don't know that putting in the EXIF will work for most type of wal-marts, etc.

I've dealt with them more than i like to remember. Until they finally "learned" me, it was "ugly."

I finally took in a sheet (on very not professional letterhead) that gave Karma Shuford permission to print the pictures. Signed, Karma Shuford. That got their attention (and left a couple of them scratching their heads).

My favorite line -- We do this to protect you, the professional.

My retort -- Perhaps, indirectly. BUT it is more Wal-Mart protecting Wal-Mart's butt.

They also wanted me, at one point, to bring in my memory card with the originals on them. When I pointed out that the originals weren't on the memory card, because the pictures I was printing covered over a year, they were absolutely astounded. I didn't know why until a few weeks ago. I met someone who talked about how many memory cards she had archiving her shots. I asked her why and she said that when she filled one up, she would date it, file it and buy another one. :/


If you are a pro, use a pro lab. The results are a hell of a lot better and more consistent than walmart, costco, et al. My nearest walmart is 7 miles, one way. So even one trip costs me nearly a gallon of gas - and my time. My pro lab ships free. Prints are often CHEAPER than walmart too (12c 4x6, 50c 5x7, $1 8x10). Duh, it's a no brainer.
11/20/2007 01:41:42 PM · #11
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

My nearest walmart is 7 miles, one way. So even one trip costs me nearly a gallon of gas


maybe it's time to stop driving the hummer then.
11/20/2007 01:45:08 PM · #12
Originally posted by karmat:

I met someone who talked about how many memory cards she had archiving her shots. I asked her why and she said that when she filled one up, she would date it, file it and buy another one. :/

Actually, that's a pretty secure way to archive shots -- the price for storage on flash memory (no moving parts) is getting closer to that of hard-drive storage, and is faster/less work than backing up to optical media (CD/DVD), whose true lifespan we don't know but which are known to degrade even in the few years they've been in use. Plus, you can fit a lot of 4GB cards in a safety-deposit box at the bank.

To the OP: I also have some standard model release forms in Acrobat (PDF) format, with form fields where you can type in known information (like the date and model's name) before printing -- looks impressive at the counter ... send me a PM with an email address if you want me to send them to you.
11/20/2007 01:48:04 PM · #13
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Originally posted by karmat:



If you are a pro, use a pro lab. The results are a hell of a lot better and more consistent than walmart, costco, et al. My nearest walmart is 7 miles, one way. So even one trip costs me nearly a gallon of gas - and my time. My pro lab ships free. Prints are often CHEAPER than walmart too (12c 4x6, 50c 5x7, $1 8x10). Duh, it's a no brainer.


Yep.

Lesseee. The nearest "pro lab" for me is in Asheville -- about 35 miles away. Wal-Mart (bad as I hate it) is 7.

To upload anything bigger than a 4x6 takes (for me) anywhere between 25 minutes and 2 hours).

There are times when Wal-Mart is necessary, convienient and cheaper.

(And my experience at Wal-Mart as far as quality is that with one exception, the prints have been pretty doggone good. DON'T use those little kiosks that scan them though -- those are nasty).
11/20/2007 01:54:24 PM · #14
Originally posted by Gordon:


maybe it's time to stop driving the hummer then.


03 Ford Windstar, average 18mpg (overall, city. more on trips) 14 mile roundtrip...you do the math.

Today's price of gas is $3.13. I also pay insurance, wear and tear, depreciation, all costs that go into the cost of a trip to walmart. If you can be in and out of a walmart in less than 15 minutes, let me know how you do it. 15 minutes driving each way, and at least 15 minutes there. Even if I value my time at the minimum wage of $7.25, and ignored the depreciation and associated costs, that trip to pick up prints costs $2.43 in gas and $5.44 in wages, or $7.87 total. If you have to make two trips (drop off and pick up) then it's over $15!

My lab ships UPS for free, and he drops the box at my backdoor. I emit no greenhouse gasses to pick that up, although I rarely recycle the carboard box. However, I'm keeping a well paid UPS employee employed, and not helping walmart exploit the needy underpaid workers they hire.

(just had to throw that last bit in there, sorry)

I may be wasting time on the internet (my biggest vice) but today I've booked a HS senior, a baby, talked with 3 other clients on matters, and am processing photos. I can't do that in the car (hummer or not) on the way to the walmart.

I just want pro photogs to use pro labs - they'll benefit from it as will their customers, and pro photography as a whole.

11/20/2007 01:57:18 PM · #15
Originally posted by drewbixcube:

Originally posted by doug61853:

...and wal-mart wouldn't print the images until they had something in writing from me

Didn't quite work that well at my Wal-Mart. I shot some family pictures, they paid for full sized images on a CD, she went to Wal-Mart to print some 8x10's. Wal-Mart printed them, looked at them, and decided not to sell them to her becuase they looked professional. She gave them my signed printing release with all my contact information, they still refused because "It wasn't on professional looking letterhead, and the customer could have printed the release at home." My client said, "Well I can go home and print it on professional letterhead if you want :p " They didn't like that very much.

She pointed out my cell phone number on the release and asked them to call me...they refused. She called me the next day to tell me the story. I called the photo lab, they still refused to sell her the prints, so I talked to the store manager. I cleared it with him for her to purchase the prints, so I called her back to tell her I was sorry for the hassle and she could pick up her pictures. Appearantly the store manager chewed some butts at the photo lab, because my client didn't have to pay for the huge stack of 8x10's and 5x7's. She made out like a bandit.

From now on I will incorporate the verbage from Wal-Mart's pamphlet on letterhead in all my releases. Now I just have to design a letterhead!


Mine has gotten used to me, I guess. Walmart has a release form online you can use when ordering.
11/20/2007 02:05:51 PM · #16
Originally posted by karmat:


Yep.

Lesseee. The nearest "pro lab" for me is in Asheville -- about 35 miles away. Wal-Mart (bad as I hate it) is 7.


abcphotolab.com
h&Hcolorlab
whcc.com
profilmet.com
tpi
millers

and there are hundreds more. I don't travel to any of them - I am in PA - profilmet is too, abc is in CT, H&H in MO.

Originally posted by karmat:


To upload anything bigger than a 4x6 takes (for me) anywhere between 25 minutes and 2 hours).

two things - you don't need to upload 5mb files. 1.2mb are more than enough for 8x10s, and 180k for 4x6 prints is plenty (800x1200). I accidently has a 65k file printed at 11x14 - yep, it was 550x700, and except for facial details looked fine. (group formal)
Consider finding a better internet solution if at all possible. And if you don't need fast turnaround, you can burn and mail a CD to the lab (pros did that with film for decades without problems)

Originally posted by karmat:



(And my experience at Wal-Mart as far as quality is that with one exception, the prints have been pretty doggone good.


Have the same file printed at several places, more than once and compare them. If you print a proof today and the client wants an 11x14 a month from now they colors, contrast, exposure should match. With a pro lab, they will. Everytime, all the time, day in day out, year to year.

And the back of the print won't say 'walmart' in inkjet printing. It will say, as part of the paper "Kodak Professional - DO NOT COPY".

The cliche' is Image is everything/ for a photographer that should say THE Image is everything. Better prints make YOU look better, your work look better - and that makes you more money.
11/20/2007 03:55:12 PM · #17
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

If you can be in and out of a walmart in less than 15 minutes, let me know how you do it.


Dunno. I've never been in a wal-mart.

As for print quality, I couldn't agree more. I used to use online budget printers (like dpcprints, shutterfly etc) until I compared them with a high end print place.

Night and day, on the same files, even with the same sort of print equipment. I use Holland photo which are local in Austin and get good results. I on occasion use West Coast imaging when I want a really great print. There's a very noticeable difference at each price point.

Message edited by author 2007-11-20 15:57:45.
11/20/2007 04:04:59 PM · #18
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

I just want pro photogs to use pro labs - they'll benefit from it as will their customers, and pro photography as a whole.


Here here! I have yet to darken the threshold of a walmart in my life.

Of course, my nearest pro lab is 3 blocks from my house. It would take me longer to drive than to walk...

edit to add - I've also used Flickr's printing service and been very happy with it, though I don't have a ton of experience with it.

Message edited by author 2007-11-20 16:06:23.
11/20/2007 04:06:40 PM · #19
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Originally posted by karmat:



Originally posted by karmat:


To upload anything bigger than a 4x6 takes (for me) anywhere between 25 minutes and 2 hours).

two things - you don't need to upload 5mb files. 1.2mb are more than enough for 8x10s, and 180k for 4x6 prints is plenty (800x1200). I accidently has a 65k file printed at 11x14 - yep, it was 550x700, and except for facial details looked fine. (group formal)
Consider finding a better internet solution if at all possible. And if you don't need fast turnaround, you can burn and mail a CD to the lab (pros did that with film for decades without problems)


Originally posted by karmat:



(And my experience at Wal-Mart as far as quality is that with one exception, the prints have been pretty doggone good.


Have the same file printed at several places, more than once and compare them. If you print a proof today and the client wants an 11x14 a month from now they colors, contrast, exposure should match. With a pro lab, they will. Everytime, all the time, day in day out, year to year.

And the back of the print won't say 'walmart' in inkjet printing. It will say, as part of the paper "Kodak Professional - DO NOT COPY".

The cliche' is Image is everything/ for a photographer that should say THE Image is everything. Better prints make YOU look better, your work look better - and that makes you more money.


(sorry, to lazy to do quotes)

Yea, but those pesky 20x30s. . .

As far as a better solution -- there ain't one. trust me. dial up is my only option. dsl? nope, phone company won't do it. cable? not, cable doesn't run in our area. satellite? satellite people won't even talk to us. :( looked into the cell phone route, don't remember the exact reason, but that didn't work well.

we have considered selling our house.

it doesn't say "wal-mart" on the back. it has the image file number (which can be handy). :P

I'm not arguing with y'all. I promise. I only use wal-mart when i absolutely have to.

Actually, I only go into Wal-Mart when absolute pressed.

but there are times when they are okay.

way #1 to not make it out of Wal-mart in less than 15 minutes = take a 5 yo and a 2 yo with you. :(
11/20/2007 04:20:56 PM · #20
Originally posted by karmat:


(sorry, to lazy to do quotes)

Yea, but those pesky 20x30s. . .

As far as a better solution -- there ain't one. trust me. dial up is my only option. dsl? nope, phone company won't do it. cable? not, cable doesn't run in our area. satellite? satellite people won't even talk to us. :( looked into the cell phone route, don't remember the exact reason, but that didn't work well.

we have considered selling our house.

it doesn't say "wal-mart" on the back. it has the image file number (which can be handy). :P

I'm not arguing with y'all. I promise. I only use wal-mart when i absolutely have to.

Actually, I only go into Wal-Mart when absolute pressed.

but there are times when they are okay.

way #1 to not make it out of Wal-mart in less than 15 minutes = take a 5 yo and a 2 yo with you. :(


Actually, it says the filename on the back -- which for some would be the image file number. :)

We use Walmart, though since Sam Walton died, they have gone downhill fast. Just like Wendy's with Dave Thomas gone. Even if they weren't day to day involved, they were a stabilizing force.

Actually for just doing prints, Walmart can be quick. Pay at the photo counter (or better yet, pay online when you send the order). In and out -- piece of cake.


11/20/2007 06:24:01 PM · #21
Don't forget, the OP was talking about a release to accompany a TFCD deal:

Originally posted by robs:

...but did a shoot with a couple of models and I wanted to include that on the CD (it's a TFCD type of deal).

When I SOLD the CD of family pictures to my client, I told her to print wherever she wanted. I also told her Wal-Mart isn't the best place to print, there are several online places that are better, or there is a photo lab down the highway. She also had the option of not paying for the CD and I would order some professional prints for her at the prices listed on my fee schedule. She chose to print at Wal-Mart, it is all that little town has known. She loved the pictures, not because the color ratios were triple tested and spot on, but because they were good prints of her family.

I am a big fan of Miller's and Mpix for my prints.
-drew
11/22/2007 02:27:16 PM · #22
Originally posted by Gordon:

[quote=Prof_Fate] If you can be in and out of a walmart in less than 15 minutes, let me know how you do it.


Gordon, People have NEVER been to wal-mart? What planet did you guys just come from?

;0)

Message edited by author 2007-11-22 14:29:45.
11/22/2007 06:08:12 PM · #23
I go to Wal-Mart three times a day (during weekdays). Then of course I have to for work. It's one of the regular bus stops I have to stop at. *grin*

11/22/2007 08:18:20 PM · #24
I will NEVER NEVER NEVER use Walmart for personal or professional photos again.

I tried them on two instances for 4x6 prints that turned out horrible. I had already put the photos on my computer, reviewed, then deleted the ones I wasn't going to use from the card. When I get the photos there are body parts cut off and the color was off. I showed them to the lady who said they print exactly as they show on the screen. I put my card back into the machine and showed her the photos show up perfectly on the screen, she reprinted them only to have the same result. She said she didn't know what to do to make them print properly and tried to blame it on something I did.

After learning that many printers automatically do a center crop I took 10 of the photos and sized them to 4x6. The results were even worse. The color came out better but the photos were cut off worse than the first ones.

I haven't tried any other quick labs. It is cheaper for me to send them into the pro lab.

I give my clients a full resolution cd with a release and explain to them they will not get the professional print results from a lab such as walmart. Most order from me but when they choose not to I recommend a couple of pro labs that I know will provide quality results.
11/23/2007 06:26:52 PM · #25
I have never had any issue printing at Walmart. Ritz once questioned me though, but I assertively told them I took the shots, and they stopped questioning immediately (I think being 6'4", 275lbs, shaved head, and looking overall like a very very very mean person helped me)

And prolabs are great and all, but its hardly the only option. I use my costco for prints all the time, and the customers don't question the quality or where they came from, cause they look great. And at this point the relationship we have with Costco is better then any I oculd have with a prolab.
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