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10/13/2007 05:50:29 PM · #1
Votes: 125
Views: 146
Avg Vote: 4.9120
Comments: 3
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 10/13/07 05:34 pm

I've been watching the progression of my votes and I'm sure that there were more than 3 votes yet only 3 comments.

One of the comments was only complementary leading me to believe that only 2 of them voted 3 or below.

I have no problem with receiving votes of less that a 3 but without the comments it is very frustrating. I leave comments for anything that I find really great as well as anything that I rate a 4 or less.

If I see something that I see as wrong with a photo, as much as I don't want to offend anyone, I put a remark in the comments so they at least know what I saw.

I welcome low scores as well as negative comments because I enter photos to get an honest idea of the quality of my photographs to that I can learn and improve. It is unfair to rate a photo so poorly and leave the person in the dark as to what needs to be improved. Even if it's just the subject choice or if the voter believes it doesn't meet the challenge.

I think that none of your votes should count unless you leave a comment for voting 3 or below.

Does anyone agree?
10/13/2007 05:59:00 PM · #2
This has been debated and debated and debated, and it will never happen. Mandatory commenting will not work. You'll effect one of two things

1. You can't force people to leave comments that are constructive.
"This sucks."
"Nice."
"3"
"."

2. People who don't want to be hassled by the mandatory commenting will simply shift their minimum vote up to a 4. It may result in higher scores, but everything is relative. The same winners win, and the scores that make us feel bad are just higher than they used to be.
10/13/2007 06:01:38 PM · #3
Well, I certainly don't want a higher score that is not reflective. Is that why some people post their entries occasionally on the forum to ask for comments?
10/13/2007 06:05:20 PM · #4
I guess that I can continue to do what I am doing and hope that enough others care enough to try and help others for me to learn.

I really appreciate the constructive feedbacks that I have received from dpc. They really help alot.

Thanks
10/13/2007 06:11:05 PM · #5
Some people have stopped commenting because they have received irate and abusive emails from the comment receiver for one reason or another...

Also, a lack of comments is a comment on the photograph by itself...probably meaning that your photo did not hit the viewer as being awful or exceptional, just so so.
10/13/2007 06:33:43 PM · #6
Well I have kinda stopped commenting for two main reasons:
1. I am very busy to go and look photos.
2. I have stopped commenting on some rude comment-reciever's photos, so I only comment after voting is over. (So that I do not make comments on their photos by mistake).
10/14/2007 12:02:17 PM · #7
Originally posted by doctornick:

Some people have stopped commenting because they have received irate and abusive emails from the comment receiver for one reason or another...

Also, a lack of comments is a comment on the photograph by itself...probably meaning that your photo did not hit the viewer as being awful or exceptional, just so so.


Ya know, THERE is a point that I'd like to hit upon since this is a "rant" board! :)

Right now, I'd rather NOT have comments LOL! I'm finding some of the comments are really getting obnoxious rather than "helpful" or constructive to photography at all!

Comments Like:

"Doesn't do it for me"

"Bad shot"

"Looks fake"

"Looks staged" (these comments are on on STUDIO SHOTS!....what the heck else is a studio shot supposed to be BUT "staged"????....grrrrrrrrr)

"I'd have like to have seen...(insert personal wishes here, including items I couldn't possibly obtain nor, would WANT them in the shot even if I had 'em!)

"(Designer Brand Name picked out on item in shot)...wow, you could have bought more gear rather than spend the money on that!"

"The little strip of blue on the model's watch takes my eye away from the entire rest of the shot". (If THAT is all it takes to distract your eye, I think you're looking for a reason to degrade the entire shot!.....vote it a 2 then! You're a moron!...sorry...had to say that! The devil made me do it! :))

"Shot sucks" (This coming from people who have NEVER entered a challenge! Yeah, that sits well!)

"Looks like you didn't try" (Again, from someone who had never entered a challenge, but had given out 500 "non-helpful" comments of similar nature to others and likely a whole heck of a pile of 1's! And, this is on a shot that had HOURS spent on set up, lighting, props and editing! Gotta love that one! You can comment on my shot and judge IT, but you CANNOT my "effort" no matter how brainy and wise you think you are!)

I could go on and on and YES, I have sent PM's or emails to "commenters" that I have felt have been totally moronic, or off the wall, or just plain lacked brains in the comments that they have left! However, I have ALWAYS tried to keep them extremely RESPECTFUL and give them the benefit of the doubt that they, perhaps, were just being "hasty" in commenting. I have never been "abusive" when I have done that.

Personally, I think that there are 2 reasons why people do this type of thing.......either they were out to pick apart people's photos in the first place just for a kick.....or, they, themselves were unpleased with their own photo scores and were out to "destroy" others' work. Someone truly out to give "constructive criticsms" would do so with comments that can help, not just make a comment.

If someone doesn't have the time to comment properly or are ticked off at their own scores.......PLEASE DON'T COMMENT. I'd rather NOT have them at all!

That's just my 2 cents worth! :)


10/14/2007 12:03:51 PM · #8
I usually only comment on higher scores 7+ and leave the critiques to the critique club. I'm only here to help and uplift others not put them down. We all started with shooting our first disasters lens cover on no film in camera flash sync off at wedding etc. Well at least I did 30 years ago. psart
10/14/2007 12:41:25 PM · #9
I think it's a shame that people feel unwilling to comment on shots. I often find when my shot gets a mediocre score that there's often nothing in the comments to give me any indication as to why. I always find constructively negative comments more helpful than positive ones. Though they're always nice!
10/14/2007 12:47:41 PM · #10
For at least 3 years now, I have been hoping ( and asking) for a few simple little tick boxes.
I wish we, as submitters, could declare our choice of comments in our preferences, which can then be seen by voters under our challenge submissions:

1) Please comment ! Good, bad, indifferent, I'll cherish them all.
2) I get hurt easily, please only comment if it is positive.
3) Don't waste your time here, I don't want comments.

One simple little check box would solve soooooo many problems.
10/14/2007 03:13:52 PM · #11
I really like that idea. I just wish we could do something. Maybe we could start a post in the forum for those of us who feel that we need more feed back to request comments.
10/14/2007 04:10:57 PM · #12
I wrote this over a year ago and nothing's changed....

Why I don't comment more
10/14/2007 05:43:22 PM · #13
Originally posted by PhotoInterest:

...
Right now, I'd rather NOT have comments LOL! I'm finding some of the comments are really getting obnoxious rather than "helpful" or constructive to photography at all!
...



From this thread:
Hi Frank,
Normally here is where I say simply that my feelings are that every comment is helpful, you can draw lots of info from even the shortest of little comments. I'm going to expand a little on that, since we've gone and called out several commenters here publicly.

First of all, your opening statement of your OP, that may be your personal approach to commenting, but it is definitely not the same with everyone. It is the very nature of the site, you post photos, people study them and state their opinions in the form of comments, likes, dislikes, positive, negative, yes, intrepretation sometimes, constructive, advice, whatever. A lot of folks on the site have a goal of learning, improving their own photography. One thing that helps this along is such critiquing of images. To put it bluntly, if all one is after is glowing praise, this is not the place, best to stick to showing those photos to freinds and family, they will stroke the ego no matter what it is.

Now, in your closing statement, you do say that you are looking for self improvement. Well, then you are in the right place! :-) And these are the kind of comments that can help you along the way. It is up to you though, to sort through, and 'organize' and draw out the information that is there. Sure, it is a little work, and it would be nice if every comment was long, and had a little positive to sugar coat the negative, and all that, but hey, it's not a perfect world, and some people are short and direct, that's fine.

Let's take a look at these comments. Keep in mind, that this is an example, and based on what I see, and my opinions.
'Not lovin the comp.' - First off, I always think that every comment is probably 'representative' of more people that shared a similar thought and just didn't comment. This tells me a lot. Basically, the composition is weak to this group of people. Did I use any strong compositional tools? Leading lines, rule of thirds? etc. Is it static, centered? Is it exciting, dynamic? Does the subject stand out? Is it obvious what the subject is? Knowing that the commenter thinks that the comp is weak, I can look at it and think, is there something different/better I could of done to make it stronger?

'I don't like this one because the object in the back is so blurry that it doesn't appear that it should even be in the photo. Secondly, the object in the front looks to be a drawing. So if you take away the object in the front the photo would be a poor one. I might not get it though so sorry for my low score.'- Ok, this is a great comment! Very specific info here. It brings into question choices of focus, dof and even again, the composition. If my main subject is the dragon, than this tells me, that viewers are confused about that due to the way that I have presented the image. Maybe I've included elements that are not supportive of the concept of the image. This gives me lots of food for thought to look at and self critique my shot.

'Wondering where you took this. Through the window of a Chinese restaurant perhaps?'
'not sure i understand. are we looking through a decal on glass?'- these 2 pretty much say the same thing. They are both formed as questions. These people come out and say they are not getting it. So I can ask myself, did I succeed in conveying my idea? Obviously not to at least this group :-) Again, did I compose the shot well, to get the concept across? Do all my included elements work together well to drive the theme? Could I have done things differently? Do I want the viewer to be confused when looking? If not, then I need to work on how I present my image.

'not on topic'- so again, this group is not seeing the S curve. We know that the dragon does have an S curve, so, we have to look at it and think how well did we present that? Is it obvious, or does the viewer have to 'look' a little to see it? Should I have made the subject more prominent? Maybe a different pov or angle could make a difference? Maybe focus choice or dof? Maybe the horse on the glass is over powering and they just didn't notice the dragon? Maybe my choice of subject doesn't 'fit' as well as I thought it did? Or, maybe I just didn't present it strong enough?

'I wish the s-curve was a stronger element in the composition.'- Well, this kind of validates the previous group, right? :-) These folks see it, but think that the presentation could be stronger. Easy to see how the other group could possibly miss it all together. And again, it points in the direction of taking a look at how I chose to compose the shot.

So now you have all this info, and raised questions, and thoughts in your mind. So, you can look at it and say, well those are their opinions, but they're all wrong, I'm right, I'm a genius and I don't care if others can see it or not. Awesome, keep doing what you're doing, keep in mind that you're right, and you don't care and just carry on, no need to complain or call anyone out for it. Ignore the ignorant masses, and go show your stuff to mom and aunt margarette for the occasional ego stroking.
....or, you can gather the info, and use it as a starting basis to take a hard honest look at your own stuff. Consider the choices you make in your image, and think about what can you do differently. Remember that this particular photo is water under the bridge now, but can you apply some of these thoughts, and some of this info to the next shot? Want more specific info? Great, post the pic in a thread, and you have some basis for the questions you wish to ask. For example, instead of just "Why did this shot not score well?", you could ask "How could I have made this composition stronger?" or "The dragon doesn't seem to be prominent enough in this shot, how could I make him stand out more?"

Sorry for being so long-winded, and if I seem to be brutal. I know for me, if I really wish to improve, I need to be brutal and honest with myself, and I need to make it happen, no one is going to spoon feed me :-) With this site, and like everything in life, the benefits are there for the taking, but you definitely need to reach out and take what you want, and make use of those benefits.
10/15/2007 08:18:46 AM · #14
""Shot sucks" (This coming from people who have NEVER entered a challenge! Yeah, that sits well!) "

So you're saying that you can't be a critic unless you have entered a challenge? I've never played professional baseball, but I can tell if a player is bad. Nor have I ever entered a cooking contest, but I can determine if I don't like the taste of something.

10/15/2007 08:28:21 AM · #15
Originally posted by doctornick:

Some people have stopped commenting because they have received irate and abusive emails from the comment receiver for one reason or another...

Also, a lack of comments is a comment on the photograph by itself...probably meaning that your photo did not hit the viewer as being awful or exceptional, just so so.


I had two annoyed entrants PM me moaning about my comments on their current flora entry. they both made the mistake of naming their shots, so I voted them even lower. If they had emailed me to discuss my comments politely, then I would of taken the time out of my day to put together a far more comprehenisce critique of their image, something that isnt really possible during the voting stage as it would take far too long. Fact of the matter is, dont insult me, then ask me to take another look at your shots, I am hardly in the best frame of mind after being abused and I am a bugger that "1" button.
10/15/2007 09:06:04 AM · #16
I echo Simms. I had a number of 'questioning' emails PMed to me during the technology challenge asking why i wrote such and such a comment, and why didnt i write this and didn't i see this or that in the picture.

I leave a comment if I think a picture is deserving of it- hence why the ones i vote 4,5,6 or 7 don't usually get one because these are pretty much unspectacular in my view. I just don't see why people have to get all uppity about it. If it's a personal attack, or they're personally offensive then make a case but if someone doesn't like your picture then deal with it and grow a set.

Also, it would take a long long time to extensively critique every picture I think is sub-par (a lot during the tech challenge) so I save it for the stand-out ones.
10/15/2007 10:42:48 AM · #17
Originally posted by Beetle:


1) Please comment ! Good, bad, indifferent, I'll cherish them all.
2) I get hurt easily, please only comment if it is positive.
3) Don't waste your time here, I don't want comments.


This list is from the point of view of the person who chooses number 1. Each option should be from the point of view of the person who would choose it. I suggest this:

1) Please comment! Good, bad, indifferent, I'll cherish them all.
2) I do not appreciate rude comments.
3) I only want constructive criticism from experienced photographers.
4) I am not interested in receiving comments.
10/15/2007 11:59:26 AM · #18
Unless commenting is turned on/off some commenters would find pleasure in leaving rude comments on photos that indicated they didn't want them.

I know SC can deal with it...but then they have to determine what is rude.

It's still my opinion that the ability to simply delete comments would increase overall commenting, not decrease it.
10/15/2007 12:09:02 PM · #19
I personally find any comment under 36 characters rude, especially if one of those characters is a tilde.
10/15/2007 12:37:33 PM · #20
Simms, dear, you've left me both unglowing and glowing comments (well, exactly one of each, I think) and I appreciate both of them. Your style can be on the harsh side, but what the heck - it's honest and that beats sugar-coating any day. Keep at it, ignore the PMs. (I may send you one after a current challenge closes - but it'll be a "thanks!")
10/15/2007 02:10:06 PM · #21
Originally posted by Tez:

I leave a comment if I think a picture is deserving of it- hence why the ones i vote 4,5,6 or 7 don't usually get one because these are pretty much unspectacular in my view.

Agreed ... although I do try to leave comments on those 4-7 shots if I think they have potential, and I think those are my most constructive comments. The really great ones certainly don't get constructive comments because they're already great. The really bad ones get some constructive criticism but it's of dubious value because there is usually too much wrong with the photo to fully critique it in a comment. On the other hand, looking at a photo in the 4-6 or -7 range, it is usually just off because of one or two details, and those are not only the easiest to put down in a comment, but also the easiest for the photographer to take away from the challenge as a point to improve upon. I think the 1-3's should know they have a crappy photo, and the 8-10's should know they have an excellent photo, so maybe we should all concentrate our comments on the 4-7's where they'll do the most good (and where the most photos fall into).
10/15/2007 02:57:40 PM · #22
Originally posted by Melethia:

Simms, dear, you've left me both unglowing and glowing comments (well, exactly one of each, I think) and I appreciate both of them. Your style can be on the harsh side, but what the heck - it's honest and that beats sugar-coating any day. Keep at it, ignore the PMs. (I may send you one after a current challenge closes - but it'll be a "thanks!")


You know me, I dont mind ruffling a few feathers. Glad you apprieiciated the comments - both good and bad.
10/15/2007 04:39:28 PM · #23
Originally posted by psart:

I usually only comment on higher scores 7+ and leave the critiques to the critique club...


What "Critique Club"?

Originally posted by Critique Club:

2 photographs have been critiqued by 1 different members.

There are 79 requests currently.
10/16/2007 11:11:29 AM · #24
Originally posted by ajdelaware:

""Shot sucks" (This coming from people who have NEVER entered a challenge! Yeah, that sits well!) "

So you're saying that you can't be a critic unless you have entered a challenge? I've never played professional baseball, but I can tell if a player is bad. Nor have I ever entered a cooking contest, but I can determine if I don't like the taste of something.


Not saying that at all!

What I am saying is that when someone who has never entered a challenge....never had the experience of having received comments at all on their work to know what it feels like to receive a comment, good, bad or indifferent....only writes......"Shot sucks" and no further explanation.....well, that does NOT sit well with me!

Had that person written...."I don't like this shot because........(fill in blank)....I could have accepted that comment much better.

BTW.....wouldn't accept that very well from someone who HAD entered 1,000 challenges either!

Guess I'd tick Simms off if I wrote him back saying......"Your comment sucks!" huh? ;)

Message edited by author 2007-10-16 11:12:42.
10/16/2007 11:29:41 AM · #25
Originally posted by Tez:

I echo Simms. I had a number of 'questioning' emails PMed to me during the technology challenge asking why i wrote such and such a comment, and why didnt i write this and didn't i see this or that in the picture.

I leave a comment if I think a picture is deserving of it- hence why the ones i vote 4,5,6 or 7 don't usually get one because these are pretty much unspectacular in my view. I just don't see why people have to get all uppity about it. If it's a personal attack, or they're personally offensive then make a case but if someone doesn't like your picture then deal with it and grow a set.

Also, it would take a long long time to extensively critique every picture I think is sub-par (a lot during the tech challenge) so I save it for the stand-out ones.


I take it that you mean "stand out" in terms of very good, or very bad???

If one comments on a very good photo and are giving them above a 7, do they really need anything more than a "great job....love the (blank)" type of comment? :)

IMO....it is the 3, 4, 5 shots that need the comments in order to understand WHY those shots are rather "unspectacular" so that there is a chance to see where improvement can be made.

Personally, when I vote something a 7 to 10 (yes, I do give out 10's! :)) I either leave a short, "nice job....love it!" It's the ones that I vote a 1 to 5 that I feel the need to comment on. There's a reason why I give scores at that range and I give those reasons where I can.
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