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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> sRGB or Adobe RGB ?
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09/11/2007 08:26:41 AM · #1
I know that to submit photos for DPC they must be in the sRGB colour space but I was wondering what colour space people work in and whether they shoot in Adobe RGB ? Any for or againsts working or shoting in either profile ?
09/11/2007 08:49:34 AM · #2
If you shoot RAW, then color space is inapplicable. You choose it on conversion, and can re-convert to a different space at any time you wish. If shooting JPEG, the Adobe RGB color space has a larger gamut (color range) *but* watch out. If you are not *very* familiar with color management, you may cause yourself far more problems than you solve. COlor management is a surprisingly complex topic, so for those who don't wish to delve into its details, I always recommend editing in sRGB. I do, however, recommend editing in 16-bit mode if your software supports it.
09/11/2007 09:26:09 AM · #3
Same camera settings... sRGB: Adobe RGB:

There's actually more color data available in the Adobe RGB version, but you MUST remember to convert to sRGB when editing for presentation on a monitor or you'll get drab, muddy images like this.
09/11/2007 09:38:21 AM · #4
Yeah, I found that out the hard way. Many times in the past my sharp and brilliantly colored looking .tifs became much duller after I did the "Save for Web" as a .jpg, my last step.

Now I reopen the .jpg and compare it to the final .tif file, and furthur adjust color or USM. I guess I should've asked in a forum like you did here.

Here is a tutorial that describes one way of doing it.
Using Photoshop to Prepare Photos for DPC Challenges
09/11/2007 05:18:02 PM · #5
So - raw doesn't assign a colour profile ? I edit in sRGB but my camera is set to sRGB as well. So your saying if I shoot raw - this seting doesn't count until I take it into PS ?
09/11/2007 06:38:21 PM · #6
Originally posted by Tajhad:

So - raw doesn't assign a colour profile ? I edit in sRGB but my camera is set to sRGB as well. So your saying if I shoot raw - this seting doesn't count until I take it into PS ?


Exactly.

edit, more complete answer: If you're using the raw converter in PS, there's a setting in the lower left corner for profile. When you convert from raw, it'll assign the profile you select there.

Message edited by author 2007-09-11 18:39:53.
09/11/2007 07:05:59 PM · #7
Thanks
I just realised something - I have been editing in AdobeRGB (but shooting in sRGB). I haven't been consciously converting into the sRGB profile for submission to dpc.
Does the "save for web" automatically convert to sRGB ?
Where can I convert to see the difference (and do further work on the file if necessary before submission - I assume it isn't ideal to be working on a file 640x640, sharpened and saved for web) ?

Also -just had a look at my Image - Mode - (PSCS2) I don't have a "Convert to Profile" option ?

Message edited by author 2007-09-11 19:16:28.
09/11/2007 07:11:23 PM · #8
I always edit in adobe RGB, but when use the save for web dialog my images look exactly the same as they did in adobe RGB. Even when I load the srgb's into dpchallenge and view them through internet explorer, they look the same as there adobe rgb counterparts.

Does cs3 automatically balance the colour or something to achieve this?
09/18/2007 02:36:58 PM · #9
You should choose the safe alternative and go for the widest gamut of the two, being Adobe RGB, especially if you're outputting to print.
As mentioned, convert to sRGB before outputting to web.
09/18/2007 02:48:43 PM · #10
Camera set to Adobe RGB (widest gamut of the two for capture) then all workflow done in Pro Photo RGB in PS CS3 (set as default during RAW conversion in ACR and is my default workspace in PS). This means you captured images using the widest gamut possible and are post processing in the widest gamut possible. Then, as a last step before saving every image to jpeg, I have a quick Action that converts to 8-bit and sRGB before performing a 'Save As...'
09/18/2007 02:57:20 PM · #11
Thoughts on ProPhoto RGB?
//www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/prophoto-rgb.shtml
09/18/2007 03:04:48 PM · #12
I shoot RAW, post process in Adobe RGB, and then convert to the appropriate color space if required for output. Local printing is done from Adobe RGB with photoshop handling color conversion based on ICC profiles. Web and print output going to a lab is converted to sRGB.
09/18/2007 03:17:02 PM · #13
All the "wide gamut processing" comments are well-taken, but again, for those who do not understand the details of color management and don't wish to (and it is a *very* complex subject), the best recommendation is an sRGB workflow.

ETA:
With regard to the Luminous Landscape article, it is well-written. A quote from the last part of the article:
"But, on the other hand, an image file in a wide space such as ProPhoto RGB needs to be kept in a cage, so that it doesn't accidentally get into the outside world. Anyone receiving a copy of such a file who doesn't know what they have, and who doesn't function in a properly colour managed workflow, or who presumes that the file is sRGB, can inadvertently use it to produce some really horrid results."

If you read this article, and understand everything he's talking about, you should be comfortable using a wide gamut color space (Like ProPhoto RGB). If it leaves you saying "huh?" then sRGB is a much safer path.

Message edited by author 2007-09-18 15:37:43.
09/18/2007 03:27:58 PM · #14
Originally posted by kirbic:

All the "wide gamut processing" comments are well-taken, but again, for those who do not understand the details of color management and don't wish to (and it is a *very* complex subject), the best recommendation is an sRGB workflow.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, if a user's only targeted output is images for the web or prints to be processed by a lab, there really is no reason to utilize anything beyond sRGB.
09/18/2007 03:45:36 PM · #15
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

I couldn't agree more. In fact, if a user's only targeted output is images for the web or prints to be processed by a lab, there really is no reason to utilize anything beyond sRGB.


Also, in general if you aren't using a monitor that's been calibrated with a hardware calibration tool and a colour managed workflow, anything other than sRGB is a waste of your time anyway. You won't be getting accurate colour, so there is no point wasting time worrying about it. sRGB will give you the most consistent results in that situation.

Now if you do have a hardware calibrated monitor and a proper workflow in place, you can do a lot better than sRGB, even for lab printed output or web display, but without the basics in place, it isn't worth the trouble.
09/18/2007 04:01:17 PM · #16
Agree with subsequent comments above.

09/18/2007 04:04:09 PM · #17
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

I couldn't agree more. In fact, if a user's only targeted output is images for the web or prints to be processed by a lab, there really is no reason to utilize anything beyond sRGB.


Also, in general if you aren't using a monitor that's been calibrated with a hardware calibration tool and a colour managed workflow, anything other than sRGB is a waste of your time anyway. You won't be getting accurate colour, so there is no point wasting time worrying about it. sRGB will give you the most consistent results in that situation.

Now if you do have a hardware calibrated monitor and a proper workflow in place, you can do a lot better than sRGB, even for lab printed output or web display, but without the basics in place, it isn't worth the trouble.

While you are on the topic of a calibrated monitor, the little PANTONE huey is so inexpensive that it's hard to imagine not taking at least this first step into a fully color managed workflow.
09/18/2007 04:09:28 PM · #18
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

While you are on the topic of a calibrated monitor, the little PANTONE huey is so inexpensive that it's hard to imagine not taking at least this first step into a fully color managed workflow.


I've seen those before but never actually used one.

Does it just adapt the monitor the ambient light temperature, or does it also let you calibrate and profile (two distinct activities) a monitor as well ?
09/18/2007 04:26:08 PM · #19
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

While you are on the topic of a calibrated monitor, the little PANTONE huey is so inexpensive that it's hard to imagine not taking at least this first step into a fully color managed workflow.


I've seen those before but never actually used one.

Does it just adapt the monitor the ambient light temperature, or does it also let you calibrate and profile (two distinct activities) a monitor as well ?

I'm not sure if my terminology is exactly right here, but the calibration process produces a series of color and gray tones on the monitor and then generates and applies an ICC profile specific to the monitor. With the 'pro' version the user can select white point and gamma, but the standard version provides a list of simple options that combine white point and gamma into something easier for the user to understand. The huey will also adjust for ambient light if you want. I've been pretty impressed so far given the reasonable price.
09/18/2007 05:01:53 PM · #20
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

While you are on the topic of a calibrated monitor, the little PANTONE huey is so inexpensive that it's hard to imagine not taking at least this first step into a fully color managed workflow.


I've seen those before but never actually used one.

Does it just adapt the monitor the ambient light temperature, or does it also let you calibrate and profile (two distinct activities) a monitor as well ?

I'm not sure if my terminology is exactly right here, but the calibration process produces a series of color and gray tones on the monitor and then generates and applies an ICC profile specific to the monitor. With the 'pro' version the user can select white point and gamma, but the standard version provides a list of simple options that combine white point and gamma into something easier for the user to understand. The huey will also adjust for ambient light if you want. I've been pretty impressed so far given the reasonable price.


I was only looking at these last night and seriously thinking of getting one! They are suppose to be very good for the price. Once your monitor is calibrated and profiled (Takes about 5 minutes they say) it's left in a caddy with a usb connection that will adjust your monitor automatically to the ambient light.

Do you have one now? If so are you happy with it.

Also from what I have read its only one of 2 that work on Vista as it has a free download to update the drivers.

Message edited by author 2007-09-18 17:02:25.
09/18/2007 05:44:00 PM · #21
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

While you are on the topic of a calibrated monitor, the little PANTONE huey is so inexpensive that it's hard to imagine not taking at least this first step into a fully color managed workflow.


I've seen those before but never actually used one.

Does it just adapt the monitor the ambient light temperature, or does it also let you calibrate and profile (two distinct activities) a monitor as well ?

The cheaper one simply calibrate, but I read that the PRO version will create profiles.
09/18/2007 06:23:59 PM · #22
my simple non-Pro version of huey DOES create a ICC profile for my monitor.

BTW, I still am not quite sure what the difference between calibration and profiling is. In any case it seems that my huey does it all in one step. Anyone would care to explain?

09/18/2007 06:34:20 PM · #23
Originally posted by LevT:

my simple non-Pro version of huey DOES create a ICC profile for my monitor.

BTW, I still am not quite sure what the difference between calibration and profiling is. In any case it seems that my huey does it all in one step. Anyone would care to explain?


Calibration is the process of bringing a monitor towards an ideal known state. Setting it in the useful range of brightness, setting it in the useful range of contrast, adjusting the red, green and blue channels to be as close to the correct white balance as they can be.

Profiling is the process of measuring how far you are from that ideal calibration and then constructing a set of adjustments to compensate for the difference. Profiles get applied in a two step process to let you see how things might print (soft profiling) or to display an image in one colour space (e.g., AdobeRGB that you might be editing in) on your monitor which is in another colour space (the profile that was calculated for it)

So calibration and profiling are in some ways two sides of the same coin, one involves bringing the analog output device (the display) to a known state, and the second one measuring how much error is left in that adjustment.

Sometimes that info is also used to dynamically adjust the graphics card to compensate further, by loading values into the DACs. It is also used by colour managed progams to display images correctly on the monitor, adjusting for the errors in the display as well as possible.
09/18/2007 06:34:52 PM · #24
Originally posted by LevT:

my simple non-Pro version of huey DOES create a ICC profile for my monitor.

BTW, I still am not quite sure what the difference between calibration and profiling is. In any case it seems that my huey does it all in one step. Anyone would care to explain?

Profiling means that it creates a file that applications such as Photoshop can open and use to modify the way it displays images.
09/18/2007 07:02:51 PM · #25
what exactly happens if I work in AdobeRGB in Photoshop and then I save the file without converting to sRGB and display it in the browser for example?
what happens with those colors that are out of the sRGB gamut? Are they discarded or are they just mapped to the closest matching color in sRGB?

Message edited by author 2007-09-18 19:03:38.
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