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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Verbally Assulted? What do/can i do.(long post)
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03/15/2007 02:11:36 AM · #1
Alright, alot has happened in the past days. I figured i would let you all know, and see what you have to say.
I am young and not really used to the photography buisness, so, educate me please.

Alright, what I do with my free time is basicalyl go to about 2 concerts a week. Recently i started shooting for Punkrockvids. Having a publication allowed me to shoot larger venues. So I quickly started shooting larger shows at The Rave. Its about four hour trip, there and back.

Now every time I shoot there I have to contact either a record label, band manager, or tour manager of a band playing there. Then they put me on will call with a photopass that they leave at the counter.

What usually happens is I go to the counter, present my ID, get my photopass, and shoot away!. However, last week I went and I showed my ID. And when the lady at the counter was going to give me pass. The manager of the venue said, "No, don't give one to him". So I asked, "why, whats going on?". He then said basically that there would be no photopasses tonight (a lie, because other people shot the show). I asked him if there was a reason and if there is a way i can figure out if I wont be able to shoot the show. He said that I can't shoot the show because he personally didn't like me because i sell my photos on my website. (also not true, not even possible). So i called the bands manager and they were mad at me, aparently the venue told them that i wasn't a good photographer and that i made money of my live shots. Back home i go. I actually lose about 20 dollars in gas money every show. And i dont make anything of my shots, in anyway.

Now, yesterday i had a large tour to shoot. It's called the Take Action Tour. So I drove out to the venue, and when I gave them my I.D. the person at the desk gave me a confused look and says, we can't give you a photopass, your not allowed to be here. I was like, well why not, and she said that we do not give photopasses to anyone. So I called the band, aparently the venue had alreayd talked to them as soon as they tried to put my name on the list. They said basically the same thing, bad photog blah blah. I went back inside and asked to speak to the manager. He was pissed. He said "Why the fuck at you here". And i said i wanted to shoot the show for punkrockvids. I also brought a printout of a website page so i could show him you could not buy photos from my site. He didnt wanna listen. basically i told him i didn't understand why i couldnt shoot, and asked him what i did wrong. He came out from behind the desk. And got really close to me. I was real scarred, he was prolly 6ft and atleast 200 pounds (im about 5 foot seven and 125 pounds). He siad "what is there to understand, here is the door, get the fuck out and i never wanna see your face here again".

Im super bummed, the next closest large venue is chicago and that is atleast three hours one day.
Is he allowed to just kick me out? it seems like a huge shux, and it has made me very upset. I just wish i could shoot the shows, and i dont get what i have done wrong. My rep with bands and tour managers is being killed as well.

yea, this is more so a vent then anything. Its just really upsetting me.

03/15/2007 02:25:20 AM · #2
are you telling us everything here?
03/15/2007 02:26:14 AM · #3
yea, i am
im super confused
like its out of the blue
my photoeditor is totally confused as well
03/15/2007 02:35:55 AM · #4
move on man...obviously something happened or they got you confused with someone else, and now you've got a bad rap.

If you're shooting for a publication (you say you have a photo editor, so I'm assuming you do)...he should be taking care of the credentials. If there's a problem, you should call him, and he should call his contact. I'm not sure how you got involved in that process in the first place.

I'm not even sure what you really want us to do...I mean if you felt assaulted you should have either called the police or gotten out of the situation, which it looks like you did. Are you looking for some sympathy, or are you looking for some super magic answer that no one's going to be able to deliver? Sympathy you'll find...some answer to a question that I'm not even certain you've asked, however, I'm not sure you'll find.
03/15/2007 02:44:41 AM · #5
Originally posted by deapee:

move on man...obviously something happened or they got you confused with someone else, and now you've got a bad rap.

If you're shooting for a publication (you say you have a photo editor, so I'm assuming you do)...he should be taking care of the credentials. If there's a problem, you should call him, and he should call his contact. I'm not sure how you got involved in that process in the first place.

I'm not even sure what you really want us to do...I mean if you felt assaulted you should have either called the police or gotten out of the situation, which it looks like you did. Are you looking for some sympathy, or are you looking for some super magic answer that no one's going to be able to deliver? Sympathy you'll find...some answer to a question that I'm not even certain you've asked, however, I'm not sure you'll find.


i was more wondering if this happens alot.
I mean it has alreayd happened and i have only been doing this for a few months.
sorry if i was unclear
03/15/2007 02:47:14 AM · #6
It's his place - he can refuse you out for any reason or kick you out at any time. After he's told you to get lost and not come back, he could have you pulled in for trespassing if you do come back.
03/15/2007 02:49:44 AM · #7
Originally posted by chimericvisions:

It's his place - he can refuse you out for any reason or kick you out at any time. After he's told you to get lost and not come back, he could have you pulled in for trespassing if you do come back.


alright, that is sorta unfortunate. I guess it makes sense. Thanks, yea he didnt tell me not to come back the first time. Im definatly not going there ever again.
03/15/2007 02:53:10 AM · #8
Originally posted by Elmakias:

alright, that is sorta unfortunate. I guess it makes sense. Thanks, yea he didnt tell me not to come back the first time. Im definatly not going there ever again.


I would definitely take deapee's advice and have your editor/publisher contact the venue to find out what the problem was. It may still be a dead end. It may be that he has nothing against you personally, but he's badmouthing you as a method to get back at your publication.
03/15/2007 02:58:01 AM · #9
I actually already had my photoeditor call. They simply said that they don't allow photopasses anymore. However, my friends shot the same night I was disallowed. My friends have another show on the 17th, so i will see.
edit:wording

Message edited by author 2007-03-15 02:58:53.
03/15/2007 03:01:25 AM · #10
Wow.. thats crazy!!

Hm... sounds like its more against your publication than you personally now if they told your editor that they arent issuing passes anymore. Completely sucks that your rep. is being slandered. I'd suggest that your photos should speak for themselves. But I might also contact some of the bands you've worked well with, and maybe get some references.

Maybe its time to look for another publication / agency to affiliate with as well?...

sorry to hear about your experience.
03/15/2007 03:05:59 AM · #11
Originally posted by Verbal Beating Victim:

Verbally Assulted? What do/can i do

Burning the place to the ground is the only thing that comes to mind. Hope it's helpful.
03/15/2007 03:15:07 AM · #12
I'd suspect that the competition have started a smear campaign to get you guys out of the way.
03/15/2007 03:17:31 AM · #13
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Verbal Beating Victim:

Verbally Assulted? What do/can i do

Burning the place to the ground is the only thing that comes to mind. Hope it's helpful.


Art, its made out of brick, so itll take along while
but i like where you are going with this
03/15/2007 03:24:42 AM · #14
Originally posted by BeeCee:

I'd suspect that the competition have started a smear campaign to get you guys out of the way.


almost sounds that way...or maybe someone is downloading them from your site (not sure if you've set up stuff against this, since I haven't been there) and maybe selling them and saying they got them from you. Pretty sucky for them to not let you explain or anything but as mentioned it is their venue and they are certain rights. I do wonder if you could go there just as a regular concert customer (without camera) without any hassle.

Good luck with this man, I hope these certain people don't start talking to other venues about it and totally killing your rep.
03/15/2007 03:37:02 AM · #15
Here's my guess for what it is worth. Have you ever given any of these people or bands links to your personal website on Smugmug? I like that site a lot as well, but it has links all over for things like shopping carts that could have confused people who aren't photographers or used to the site. I can see how they could confused and feel like every link on your page is related spefically to you and your photography, when in fact some of it is for the main Smugmug site itself. Just a guess at perhaps what could have started all of this for you.

Good luck - Dave

P.S. - You got some cool concert shots by the way, so just move on and look to shoot at other venues.
03/15/2007 03:42:48 AM · #16
perhaps try and book a meeting with the managers or event organisers and explain what's happening.

if you show them that your shots are good and you're not selling them, then they might let you in.

seems like you've been blacklisted from the press list. so if you're keen to shoot, you need to make time to visit them away from the concert nights and convince them that you're above board.

my $0.02
03/15/2007 03:50:26 AM · #17
Originally posted by super-dave:

perhaps try and book a meeting with the managers or event organisers and explain what's happening.

if you show them that your shots are good and you're not selling them, then they might let you in.

seems like you've been blacklisted from the press list. so if you're keen to shoot, you need to make time to visit them away from the concert nights and convince them that you're above board.

my $0.02


Originally posted by rasdub:

Here's my guess for what it is worth. Have you ever given any of these people or bands links to your personal website on Smugmug? I like that site a lot as well, but it has links all over for things like shopping carts that could have confused people who aren't photographers or used to the site. I can see how they could confused and feel like every link on your page is related spefically to you and your photography, when in fact some of it is for the main Smugmug site itself. Just a guess at perhaps what could have started all of this for you.


Well, the second time i went, I printed out a page (a sample gallery from one of the shows i had previously shot at the venue), and on it i wrote a note. Saying that yes there is a shopping cart option, however you cant add anything from my site into it. smugmug also has a section that keeps track of your earnings, I printed this out as well. I was prepared to sit down and talk, which was my intention. However it quickly turned into him yelling at me unnecessarily. I am not sure why he would not let me talk to him.

Message edited by author 2007-03-15 03:51:09.
03/15/2007 04:45:53 AM · #18
Not sure if you tried this, but you can always contact the bands directly. Maybe a week before they are due in town. And have your editor back you up. Show them your work and explain that you use smugmug as a portfolio, not for profit.
03/15/2007 05:39:35 AM · #19
That's what payola is all about, baby. Payola de money and day letta you inna.
03/15/2007 08:55:00 AM · #20
Originally posted by Marc923:

Not sure if you tried this, but you can always contact the bands directly. Maybe a week before they are due in town. And have your editor back you up. Show them your work and explain that you use smugmug as a portfolio, not for profit.


the first time this happened, it was the band member i called. I guess i didnt really write that. Because he eneded up handing it off to his manager. I mean, i don't think they really want to deal with it.
03/15/2007 09:15:35 AM · #21
Dont sweat it too much dude. The Eagles Club goes through managers like diapers. Won't be long and the guy that doesn't like you will move on to manage the McDonalds just up the road and someone new who doesn't know you will take his place. I have been to dozens of concerts there back in the early 90s we used to sneak cameras in, The bands never seemed to mind as most would pose for photos etc.. but those big bloated steriod monsters at the door freaked out on cameras.
03/15/2007 09:26:52 AM · #22
Originally posted by sabphoto:

I hope these certain people don't start talking to other venues about it and totally killing your rep.


If you make a living from photography (even in part), this might be lawsuit material.
03/15/2007 09:30:42 AM · #23
Originally posted by Elmakias:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Verbal Beating Victim:

Verbally Assulted? What do/can i do

Burning the place to the ground is the only thing that comes to mind. Hope it's helpful.


Art, its made out of brick, so itll take along while
but i like where you are going with this


You can burn anything if the fire's hot enough...
03/15/2007 09:42:04 AM · #24
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by sabphoto:

I hope these certain people don't start talking to other venues about it and totally killing your rep.


If you make a living from photography (even in part), this might be lawsuit material.


Yes, that would definitely fall under slander and could easily rack up a huge settlement for the slanderee.
03/15/2007 09:47:32 AM · #25
OK, from what I know (and haven't been in PR or the media in several years) is that most venues don't like to give photo passes to website photogs.

You don't get the respect from working for a web site that you do a print publication or broadcast media. The reason is that anyone can set up a web site. If I decided I wanted to see a show, I could have one up in a few hours. And, the system has been abused, MUCH.

There's not much you can do about that. BUT, you can talk to the venues managers, bands and everyone else involved and gain YOURSELF respect. Be professional, don't act like a star-crazed groupie and do good work.
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