Propaganda... Wha??? - DPChallenge Forums

11/19/2003 04:47:13 PM · #1

I didn't enter this challenge - I found the topic to be, well, too challenging to create a 'wow' photo that would demonstrate propaganda. In my mind, a shot of someone holding a banner at a rally for PETA or something to that effect would be a good entry. (someone promoting their idea/beliefs to others) However, I'm finding many shots in this challenge that I just can't relate to propaganda. Some of these I've looked at for minutes wondering what in the world it has to do with the challenge topic. This time around, I'm not going to vote on those photos, but instead, only vote on the ones that I feel are in the top 10. Is that right or wrong, do you think?

Message edited by author 2003-11-19 16:48:10.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4.0-5.6G ED

11/19/2003 05:11:04 PM · #2

I entered a WOW photo. A "WOW that's bad" one.:)

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70 f2.8 L IS

11/19/2003 05:16:27 PM · #3

This is a tough challenge to meet simply because there is disagreement about exactly what propaganda is. In my voting I will probably take off a maximum of 1 point if I cannot for the life of me figure out how it is propaganda, and will add one point if I feel it screams propaganda. I will, however, vote on all images, to give all a fair shake.

amsmyth

Nikon D50

11/19/2003 05:21:43 PM · #4

I feel as if we should vote on all, and comment on as many as possible or perhaps that's where you could do your top ten as comments. It is a voting challenge and if we vote only on those we like we have nothing to learn from challenge placement or the votes of others.

glimpses

Sony DSC-F707

11/19/2003 05:21:45 PM · #5

Propaganda is a way too complicated concept to be understood correctly by the people.. after all, if they would understand it there would be no propaganda...

alanfreed

Nikon D6

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

11/19/2003 05:25:50 PM · #6

I agree that it's a rather unusual topic, and like many it can be rather subjective. Do keep in mind that if you're going to just vote for the shots that you think are Top 10 material, your votes aren't going to be counted anyway since you need to vote for at least 20% for them to be tabulated.

I'd just vote based on the photographic integrity of the shot, and if it seems really out in the blue, vote accordingly if you take challenge relevance into consideration for your scoring :)

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

11/19/2003 05:28:16 PM · #7

Ten, I think you should vote low on them. If you have invested the time to give an image a chance to impress you with the way it complies with the topic, and it fails, then the photographer has failed to meet the challenge and deserves to be penalized a point or two. If he is not penalized it is not fair to all the other entrants who met the challenge and that you voted high for.

Imagineer

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

11/19/2003 05:29:01 PM · #8

Personally, I don't think all challenges require a 'WOW' factor in the shot. Some subjects just need to be presented as they are seen - photojournalism style.

After all, how can you describe this image with 'WOW!' - yet it's still a revealing, informative shot?
//www.afrc.af.mil/910aw/Public_Affairs/Airstream%20Online/November%202002/Protestors%20invade1%20P1010007.jpg

You may find the following site useful when considering what propaganda really means - and its wide breadth of definition.
//www.propagandacritic.com/

JC_Homola

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM

11/19/2003 05:35:46 PM · #9

Having done an initial vote run through, I found very few I couldn't somehow attach the label propaganda to. Or at least associate some how.

There are a few I feel are more advertising oriented. And few that really left me wondering, why some one felt it was propaganda.

I find myself voting more on photographic merit than actual content in this one.

This is not a clear cut topic. Just like propaganda itself the images can be very subtle or they can be bash you over the head w/ with the message.

ScottK

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/19/2003 06:17:23 PM · #10

Seems to me like propaganda - the "art" of propaganda, not identifying it in its existence - deals with 1) placing your side/agenda/ideology in a postive light while 2) placing your opposition in a negative light. And, at the same time, communicating a message you want the viewer to receive and accept, subtly, maybe even subconciously. To achieve this in photography, I think you really have to rely on imagery, and relate the imagery to some positive (for your side) or negative (for your opponent) aspect of your message. The image doesn't have to beat you over the head with it's direct relevance to the heart of your message, but may rely on the atmosphere of the image to enforce it.

I hope people are giving a little more attention to titles in this challenge, since they, IMO, represent the text we coulding incorporate into our image (except in the case of some who came up with clever ways to get text into their shot).

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/19/2003 06:28:58 PM · #11

Originally posted by Ten13:

Who cares how you vote,and what do you think about photos not meeting the challenge,would be much more honest if people like you start complaining after the challenge is over without influencing other voters!

deafwolf

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG APO IF for Canon

11/19/2003 06:47:57 PM · #12

I didn't enter because I had to go hang protest banners on overpasses all week.

11/19/2003 06:49:33 PM · #13

I didn't enter because I had to go hang protest banners on overpasses all week.deafwolf

Hehehe:)

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

11/19/2003 06:55:17 PM · #14

Originally posted by coolhar:

Like Ten13, I'm not likely to 'penalize' any photographers and won't partake in such exercises. I look at pictures and their presentation, looking for merit.

soup

Canon EOS-30D

11/19/2003 06:58:51 PM · #15

it wasnt the same over pass each time was it?
and your in london? i wish i was a money bush ;]

Originally posted by ?:

I didn't enter because I had to go hang protest banners on overpasses all week.deafwolf

Message edited by author 2003-11-19 18:59:20.

11/19/2003 07:04:22 PM · #16

Originally posted by alansfreed:

Do keep in mind that if you're going to just vote for the shots that you think are Top 10 material, your votes aren't going to be counted anyway since you need to vote for at least 20% for them to be tabulated.

I don't believe that's accurate. They will count (they have in the past), but had I submitted an entry, then it would not be included in the challenge if I didn't vote for at least 20%...

Natator

Canon EOS-5D

11/19/2003 07:07:29 PM · #17

Originally posted by Ten13:

I don't believe that's accurate. They will count (they have in the past), but had I submitted an entry, then it would not be included in the challenge if I didn't vote for at least 20%...

That isn't the case at all. What I believe happens is this:

You vote, your score is instantly reflected in the scoring figures (or at least on the next hour).

At the END of voting the scores you gave are all removed if you did not vote on 20% of entries. This is regardless of if you entered a pic yourself or not.

If you entered you do not have to vote on ANY entries if you do not wish to. Your entry is unaffected in any way if you choose to vote or not.

Message edited by author 2003-11-19 19:09:12.

11/19/2003 07:15:35 PM · #18

Originally posted by pitsaman:

pitsaman, did I wrong you in a past life or something? Seems like whenever I post a topic you find the need to jump all over me, so to speak. I don't see how my "complaining" can affect other voters. I'm not complaining, so I guess you misunderstood my post. I'm just trying to get a feel for how others are voting on this challenge, since the topic is a little hard to grasp for some. Others who have responded to my post didn't seem to find anything wrong with my question and they have provided me with some helpful insight. And for your verbiage "who cares how I vote" - I'm thinking the people who entered the challenge might! Using generalizations such as "people like you" seems a bit overboard. Next time you reply to one of my posts, I'm sure you can voice some useful insight to my question or statement.

jmritz - That was you on that overpass? (haha)

11/19/2003 07:21:28 PM · #19

Yes

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

11/19/2003 07:23:30 PM · #20

Natator - thanks for the clarification. The reason I was confused is because I only get the "remember you must vote for 20%..." thing on my screen only in the challenges I enter. So I thought "for your votes to count" meant the votes for my image, not the votes I was giving out. Confused? I guess I was, in which case, thanks for pointing that out.

coolhar

11/19/2003 07:46:15 PM · #21

To Ten and zeuszen,
Maybe the word penalize was not a good one. What I meant to say was that if a voter does not vote low for the entries that deserve to be voted low (whether because they arn't on topic or because they are poor quality photos) it distorts the whole voting process to the disadvantage of all the contestants, including you, if you entered, and the photos you liked enough to vote high on. Hope that is a little clearer.

jackditch

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 28-90mm f/4-5.6 II USM (Silver)

11/19/2003 08:07:35 PM · #22

propaganda is the type of challenge that lowers my average vote. I think the entries, for the most part are terrible. Thumbs down to propaganda!

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

11/19/2003 08:55:31 PM · #23

Originally posted by coolhar:

Yes, this is a valid point, coolhar. Thanks for rephrasing.

lwkimages

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

11/19/2003 09:08:42 PM · #24

Propaganda: "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person" -- Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary

I thought my entry portrayed exactly what the definition describes, but alas... I'm getting the lowest scores of my 7 entries. ...And the 4 comments I got are just brutal - almost rude! Yes, this was a difficult subject, and I'm getting the impression that the majority of those voting may be misunderstanding the intent - just as many of the entrants have.

Hmmmm.... Has a challenge ever been overturned or cancelled??

Message edited by author 2003-11-19 21:09:20.