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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Black and White Portrait II Question?
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 72, (reverse)
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01/07/2007 11:12:26 AM · #26
Originally posted by jmlelii:

Sepia is considered a form of Black and White.


Well, they are similar, but is it so hard to submit a true black & white photo? Just black, white, and shades of grey, or gray as the case may be.
01/07/2007 12:25:39 PM · #27
Originally posted by jmlelii:

Sepia is considered a form of Black and White.


sorry dude, I hope you are not serious....
01/07/2007 01:39:41 PM · #28
Originally posted by Cutter:

Originally posted by jmlelii:

Sepia is considered a form of Black and White.


sorry dude, I hope you are not serious....


Past thread on sepia/duotones vs. B&W

I voiced my opinion then, and it was not widely accepted. Only a few of us seem to care about the difference between sepias, duotones, etc and B&W's.
01/07/2007 01:45:34 PM · #29
Originally posted by jmlelii:

Sepia is considered a form of Black and White.


Tell that to some of the "too literal" voters here. ;-)
01/07/2007 01:46:24 PM · #30
Originally posted by Cutter:

Originally posted by jmlelii:

Sepia is considered a form of Black and White.


sorry dude, I hope you are not serious....


Why? As far as I'm concerned it is B&W. I guess that's why we all get a vote though.
01/07/2007 02:53:28 PM · #31
Originally posted by tooohip:



Why? As far as I'm concerned it is B&W. I guess that's why we all get a vote though.


If b/w and sepia were one in the same, then our language would not require the word sepia.

One word: Definition
01/07/2007 02:55:46 PM · #32
Originally posted by Cutter:

Originally posted by tooohip:



Why? As far as I'm concerned it is B&W. I guess that's why we all get a vote though.


If b/w and sepia were one in the same, then our language would not require the word sepia.

One word: Definition


Like I said... That's why we each get a vote.
01/07/2007 02:59:29 PM · #33
Originally posted by Cutter:

Originally posted by tooohip:



Why? As far as I'm concerned it is B&W. I guess that's why we all get a vote though.


If b/w and sepia were one in the same, then our language would not require the word sepia.

One word: Definition


So because my shot does not have any blacks in it at all ( as far as I can tell ) does this mean its not a black and white shot? It does have some awfully dark greys though..

Message edited by author 2007-01-07 15:01:16.
01/07/2007 03:09:08 PM · #34
Originally posted by Cutter:

Originally posted by tooohip:



Why? As far as I'm concerned it is B&W. I guess that's why we all get a vote though.


If b/w and sepia were one in the same, then our language would not require the word sepia.

One word: Definition


The Iñupiaq have a bunch of ways to say "snow". If there was only one way to say the same thing, not only would the English language but a whole lot of other languages have a whole lot less words and ways to express ourselves. Just think what it would do to the French when they talk about "love". ;D

Mike
01/07/2007 03:19:09 PM · #35
Originally posted by jmlelii:

Sepia is considered a form of Black and White.


Oh please! you're not serious are you?
Sepia is brown, not Black and White!
01/07/2007 03:28:26 PM · #36
Sepia is a toned black and white photograph.
01/07/2007 03:32:38 PM · #37
Originally posted by MikeJ:



The Iñupiaq have a bunch of ways to say "snow". If there was only one way to say the same thing, not only would the English language but a whole lot of other languages have a whole lot less words and ways to express ourselves. Just think what it would do to the French when they talk about "love". ;D

Mike


I agree there are many ways to say one concept....example: rain - downpour. But see even that second word is only attempting to describe the first word. Or your example of love. Isn't love a lot easier to define be using adjectives. Love itself is almost indescribable. But I digress...

Sepia has a very specific definition. I advise you to browse your handy dictionary for that one. I love sepia tones, but it is not black and white. But I am not so stubborn to say a b/w photograph must only have b/w and no middle greys. But I would hope all people are intelligent enough to grasp that...


01/07/2007 03:32:45 PM · #38
I think that if you want to enter a sepia, then you should enter a sepia. But whether or not any of us agree or disagree on the matter of sepia being a b/w, it is guaranteed not to score well. Photos that do well in b/w challenges stick rather literally to the b/w. A good rule of thumb for scoring on DPC is that if you have to ask whether or not something "counts", it will be largely perceived as DNMC or a shoehorn and is guaranteed not to score well.

Message edited by author 2007-01-07 15:33:49.
01/07/2007 03:35:00 PM · #39
Originally posted by Cutter:

Originally posted by MikeJ:



The Iñupiaq have a bunch of ways to say "snow". If there was only one way to say the same thing, not only would the English language but a whole lot of other languages have a whole lot less words and ways to express ourselves. Just think what it would do to the French when they talk about "love". ;D

Mike


I agree there are many ways to say one concept....example: rain - downpour. But see even that second word is only attempting to describe the first word. Or your example of love. Isn't love a lot easier to define be using adjectives. Love itself is almost indescribable. But I digress...

Sepia has a very specific definition. I advise you to browse your handy dictionary for that one. I love sepia tones, but it is not black and white. But I am not so stubborn to say a b/w photograph must only have b/w and no middle greys. But I would hope all people are intelligent enough to grasp that...


I don't need to look at a dictionary. If black and white means only black and white, then none of the images should have any of the tones of gray in it. After all, it's "black and white" and not "black and white and all the tones of gray". ;D

Mike
01/07/2007 03:54:38 PM · #40
Actually, sepia is really the ink that a squid squirts out for camoflage in self-defense. So, use sepia...or 'give us your best SHOT, and we will vote accordingly! IMO

Message edited by author 2007-01-07 15:55:09.
01/07/2007 03:57:02 PM · #41
By the way, sepia is a process that is applied to a black and white photograph. You don't "take" sepia images, you "take" black and white or color or infared or x-ray or what ever images. But sepia is a process that is added to the image afterwards to tone it or stablize it so it archives longer. In it's original use (I know a lot of people only know of film from the history books now) sepia was used to replace the silver in the print with silver sulphide. I use to do a lot of sepia toning back in the darkroom days (darkroom being where the old fashion photographers use to create their images after they took them). It's a smelly process, that's for sure.

It was always associated with black and white photographs. Times have changed, and today, with digital manipulation, people create sepia images directly from their color images. So I can see where a lot of the confussion comes from. And since this is a "digital" forum, I suppose that the belief that black and white and sepia have nothing in common is appropriate. Us older photographers just look at it a bit different.

Mike
01/07/2007 04:06:35 PM · #42
Since I am such a nice guy, I decided to do the leg work for you...

Sepia Defs

Doesn't get much more clear cut. The term "black and white" has never and will never be defined as only black and only white. It means devoid of color. And please don't get scientifically cute and argue the color spectrum in regards to b/w. Following that logic that 99.99% of humans take, that would include the tones in between black and white....read: grey.
01/07/2007 04:07:42 PM · #43
I can pretty much assure everyone that if I enter, I won't be using neutral gray for my B&W. I likely won't go so far as to sepia tone it, but it will likely be a "warm gray".

FWIW, an image that is only desaturated will get a lot lower vote from me than a sepia image.


01/07/2007 04:08:31 PM · #44
Originally posted by MikeJ:

By the way, sepia is a process that is applied to a black and white photograph. You don't "take" sepia images, you "take" black and white or color or infared or x-ray or what ever images. But sepia is a process that is added to the image afterwards to tone it or stablize it so it archives longer. In it's original use (I know a lot of people only know of film from the history books now) sepia was used to replace the silver in the print with silver sulphide. I use to do a lot of sepia toning back in the darkroom days (darkroom being where the old fashion photographers use to create their images after they took them). It's a smelly process, that's for sure.

It was always associated with black and white photographs. Times have changed, and today, with digital manipulation, people create sepia images directly from their color images. So I can see where a lot of the confussion comes from. And since this is a "digital" forum, I suppose that the belief that black and white and sepia have nothing in common is appropriate. Us older photographers just look at it a bit different.

Mike


So as you explain it, sepia is a step beyond black and white, derived from black and white, but the finished product is not black and white anymore.
01/07/2007 04:09:16 PM · #45
To the original poster... See what I mean... ;-)
01/07/2007 04:10:49 PM · #46
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I can pretty much assure everyone that if I enter, I won't be using neutral gray for my B&W. I likely won't go so far as to sepia tone it, but it will likely be a "warm gray".

FWIW, an image that is only desaturated will get a lot lower vote from me than a sepia image.


Aye. I don't have an entry, but my b/w shots are rarely pure b/w. I usually push them into very slight duotones. It usually deepens the shadows and highlights the textures just a touch (shadows into blue, midtones into red, highlights into yellow, never more than 5% in any direction), but the color shift is so slight that the perception is still b/w.
01/07/2007 04:13:00 PM · #47
Originally posted by karmabreeze:

It usually deepens the shadows and highlights the textures just a touch (shadows into blue, midtones into red, highlights into yellow, never more than 5% in any direction), but the color shift is so slight that the perception is still b/w.


I know exactly what you mean, it is tricky and risky, but I am with you....
01/07/2007 04:15:14 PM · #48
Originally posted by MikeJ:

By the way, sepia is a process that is applied to a black and white photograph. You don't "take" sepia images, you "take" black and white or color or infared or x-ray or what ever images. But sepia is a process that is added to the image afterwards to tone it or stablize it so it archives longer. In it's original use (I know a lot of people only know of film from the history books now) sepia was used to replace the silver in the print with silver sulphide. I use to do a lot of sepia toning back in the darkroom days (darkroom being where the old fashion photographers use to create their images after they took them). It's a smelly process, that's for sure.

It was always associated with black and white photographs. Times have changed, and today, with digital manipulation, people create sepia images directly from their color images. So I can see where a lot of the confussion comes from. And since this is a "digital" forum, I suppose that the belief that black and white and sepia have nothing in common is appropriate. Us older photographers just look at it a bit different.

Mike


Thank you - these threads drive me crazy. I still sepia tone black and white prints.
01/07/2007 04:18:46 PM · #49
Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

I can pretty much assure everyone that if I enter, I won't be using neutral gray for my B&W. I likely won't go so far as to sepia tone it, but it will likely be a "warm gray".

FWIW, an image that is only desaturated will get a lot lower vote from me than a sepia image.


Aye. I don't have an entry, but my b/w shots are rarely pure b/w. I usually push them into very slight duotones. It usually deepens the shadows and highlights the textures just a touch (shadows into blue, midtones into red, highlights into yellow, never more than 5% in any direction), but the color shift is so slight that the perception is still b/w.


Which gives a lot of depth to the image.

To me, B&W isn't about grayscales, it's about reproducing the feel of B&W photography (which was NEVER greyscale).
01/07/2007 04:24:05 PM · #50
Can't we all just get along?
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