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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Low light photography equipment recommendations?
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 10/10/2006 01:11:40 PM · #1
I am at the point where I have decided to sink some cash into a decent
DSLR. I am not brand restricted. My main focus is low light / indoor
photography. Basically I do a lot of work in aquariums so I need
something that functions well in low light.

I am also looking for a recommendation on a fast lens that can be paried with it since those pesky jellyfish just won't pose for my no matter how much I try and convince them (*smile*). Price is always a factor of course so while I would love to say I could afford $50K on a setup that isn't realistic. I would love to be able to get away with a chasis and lens that meets my requirements for under $2000 US. So fire away.
 10/10/2006 01:23:24 PM · #2
The only replacement for speed is speed. Get a nice fast lens, a 50mm f1.8 is always an excellent inexpensive choice for any system. Got one for my Asahi Spotmatic.
 10/10/2006 01:29:31 PM · #3
It is with slight fear of causing a brand debate, but I think the canon line is still doing a little better with keeping the noise down at higher ISO settings. This isn't to say that Nikons are bad or that they don't top Canon's in some areas, but if you are looking at very low light situations the ability to crank up the ISO and keep the noise down is very important.
 10/10/2006 01:34:43 PM · #4
The new 50mm 1.2L would be great - it's around $1500 I think, and pair that with one of the 8mp bodies and you'll get good high ISO performance. The 20/30D probably have better noise reduction for high ISO than the rebel XT, and the new XTI is probably worse because of the higher resolution sensor. Should be a little bit over $2k. You could get the 50mm 1.4 for only $300 if the half stop of extra speed and build quality isn't worth it.

You could also look for a used 50mm 1.0L, but those are kind of rare and expensive...

The ultimate setup would probably be a Leica R9 + DMR (or M8 when it's available), and Noctilux 50 1.0, but that'd run you easily over $10k for the R9/DMR/Noct setup, and about 9k for the M8/Noct.

If available light isn't an absolute requirement, how about using a circular polarizer to cut reflections from glass and using a flash? You could still get a fast lens, but use the flash when the lighting was too poor. A polarizer will take off between a stop and 2 stops of speed, though, so the 1.2 would act as a 2.5 or so (still not bad considering you can shoot at ISO 1600 and still print perfectly well from it with some cleaning up)

Message edited by author 2006-10-10 13:35:59.
 10/10/2006 02:09:30 PM · #5
Tamron Lens

I have heard really positive things about this lens. I even heard one person compare it to L glass, but at a fraction of the cost. I, personally, don't have it yet. However, I do have a slower Tamron lens 28-75 f 3.5-5.6, and for what it does, I'm delighted with it. It doesn't even do half bad in low light situations as long as I use a tri-pod.
 10/10/2006 02:14:53 PM · #6
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
The new 50mm 1.2L would be great - it's around $1500 I think, and pair that with one of the 8mp bodies and you'll get good high ISO performance. The 20/30D probably have better noise reduction for high ISO than the rebel XT, and the new XTI is probably worse because of the higher resolution sensor. Should be a little bit over $2k. You could get the 50mm 1.4 for only $300 if the half stop of extra speed and build quality isn't worth it.

You could also look for a used 50mm 1.0L, but those are kind of rare and expensive...

The ultimate setup would probably be a Leica R9 + DMR (or M8 when it's available), and Noctilux 50 1.0, but that'd run you easily over $10k for the R9/DMR/Noct setup, and about 9k for the M8/Noct.

If available light isn't an absolute requirement, how about using a circular polarizer to cut reflections from glass and using a flash? You could still get a fast lens, but use the flash when the lighting was too poor. A polarizer will take off between a stop and 2 stops of speed, though, so the 1.2 would act as a 2.5 or so (still not bad considering you can shoot at ISO 1600 and still print perfectly well from it with some cleaning up)


In lowlight, the problem with flash isn't output - it's coverage. And a polarizer would not be a good idea considering it's affecting your exposure overall, bad if you're trying to grab as much ambient as possible.

The best low noise performers in the Nikon lineup are the D50, D80, and D2hs. The difference is minimalized if you're shooting RAW/NEF and disable NR, but Canon in general has cleaner high ISO performance.

There's no replacement for speed. Get quality optics but worry more about aperture and build because focus is going to be tough in lowlight regardless. In lowlight, the AF sensitivity of the body is more of a factor than the focus speed of your lens.

The 20D/30D or D80 would be good bodies to build on. I recommend going to the store and trying them out.
 10/10/2006 02:20:02 PM · #7
Bear in mind that an aperture of f/1.4 will give you four times the shutter speed of an aperture of f/2.8, all other things being equal. Therefore, for real low-light situations, the 50mm f/1.4 is perhaps the most cost-effective solution, albeit with the drawback of the fixed focal length. Both Canon and Nikon make excellent lenses in this regard.
 10/10/2006 02:24:09 PM · #8
Originally posted by AJAger:
Bear in mind that an aperture of f/1.4 will give you four times the shutter speed of an aperture of f/2.8, all other things being equal. Therefore, for real low-light situations, the 50mm f/1.4 is perhaps the most cost-effective solution, albeit with the drawback of the fixed focal length. Both Canon and Nikon make excellent lenses in this regard.


there's also the sigma 30mm 1.4, if you'd like a little wider field of view...
 10/10/2006 02:26:54 PM · #9
i think that you have to pick a topic as most people are steering you towards a
a nice F/1.0 ($$$)or F/1.2 ($$) or even F/1.4 ($) but from reading your request you need a good 'wide' macro I.E. 60mm F/2.8 ($) -

i don't think a FAST lens will have the close focusing that you need (less than a foot) when your lens is stuck right up agaist the glass ...
10/10/2006 02:46:35 PM · #10
Originally posted by ralph:
i think that you have to pick a topic as most people are steering you towards a
a nice F/1.0 ($$$)or F/1.2 ($$) or even F/1.4 ($) but from reading your request you need a good 'wide' macro I.E. 60mm F/2.8 ($) -

i don't think a FAST lens will have the close focusing that you need (less than a foot) when your lens is stuck right up agaist the glass ...


You could always use a close-up filter on a fast lens to get close focussing and faster aperture.

I have to say, however, that, in my limited experience, for shooting in aquaria, speed wins out every time and, to be honest, I'm not really sure that a macro lens would be terribly useful for the jellyfish previously mentioned.
 10/11/2006 06:28:49 AM · #11
i use a Tamron 28-75mm 2.8 for when i goto our local aquarium
10/11/2006 08:48:48 AM · #12
Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
Tamron Lens

I have heard really positive things about this lens. I even heard one person compare it to L glass, but at a fraction of the cost. I, personally, don't have it yet. However, I do have a slower Tamron lens 28-75 f 3.5-5.6, and for what it does, I'm delighted with it. It doesn't even do half bad in low light situations as long as I use a tri-pod.


The tamron 28-75 2.8 stays on my lens 98% of the time, however the only time it comes off is in low light situations where I will put the 50mm f/1.8 on. Since the 50mm only cost around 80 USD I would pick it up no matter what other lens you decide on (unless of course its one of the faster 50 mm versions).
 10/12/2006 12:39:00 PM · #13
I'm gonna experiment this weekend with ISO 12500 film (actually 3200 pushed way up) and 50/1.8 lens in a nightclub. Hopefully something will be salvageable :)
 10/12/2006 01:21:03 PM · #14
I've shot quite a few aquariums (and underwater) the only problem with the 50mm suggestions is that with the crop factor your limited to telephoto shots. This will be fine if you are shooting small animals, but large ones will be a problem. Remember too that you want to shoot thru as little water as possible due to suspended particles and light fall off. So a fast wide angle is in order.

I'd suggest looking a the Sigma 20mm f1.8 or the Sigma 30mm f1.4. If you go Canon they make a fine 35mm f1.4.

As a long time Nikon user I must agree that for your specific needs, Canon would be a better choice now.
 10/12/2006 01:36:38 PM · #15
If your looking for a dslr for low likght I would recommend the Sony alpha (a100). The reason...IS (image stabllization) in body. They have some good glass aviable and making Carl Ziess glass to add to the line up. the IS being built into the body can give you an extra 1/2 stop or more for clarity sake. you can read a good review on it here. Uses the konica/minolta mount and you can find the Body for under $1000 whish is great for a 10mp+ camera.
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Sony/sony_dslra100.asp

//www.ccicameracity.com/sndslra100.html
matter fact here is the body for under $500 (place changes prices alot so my be $493 when I enter this and $700 tommrow afternoon)

heck this system is almost got me thinking I shold switch to sony instead of Canon. Its a good set up.

also lenses
Sony SAL-50F14 Normal 50mm f/1.4 Autofocus Lens
Sony - SAL50F14

$349.00
SAL-1870 Zoom Super Wide Angle AF DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6(D) Autofocus Lens for Sony & Minolta Digital SLR Cameras
Sony - SAL1870

$189.95
or
Konica Minolta 28-75mm f/2.8 MAXXUM AF LENS
Konica Minolta - 2696810

$399.95

am looking for more glass but there is a start


Message edited by author 2006-10-12 13:55:06.
 10/12/2006 01:47:41 PM · #16
Originally posted by nemesise1977:
If your looking for a dslr for low likght I would recommend the Sony alpha (a100). The reason...IS (image stabllization) in body. They have some good glass aviable and making Carl Ziess glass to add to the line up. the IS being built into the body can give you an extra 1/2 stop or more for clarity sake. you can read a good review on it here. Uses the konica/minolta mount and you can find the Body for under $1000 whish is great for a 10mp+ camera.
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Sony/sony_dslra100.asp

//www.ccicameracity.com/sndslra100.html
matter fact here is the body for under $500 (place changes prices alot so my be $493 when I enter this and $700 tommrow afternoon)

heck this system is almost got me thinking I shold switch to sony instead of Canon. Its a good set up.


1. The problem with Sony's IS system is that, being in the body itself, it's not as good as the lens IS systems out there.

2. IS is not going to help when your trying to shoot a jelly-fish that will never stay still enough.
 10/12/2006 02:12:43 PM · #17
Originally posted by LERtastic:
Originally posted by nemesise1977:
If your looking for a dslr for low likght I would recommend the Sony alpha (a100). The reason...IS (image stabllization) in body. They have some good glass aviable and making Carl Ziess glass to add to the line up. the IS being built into the body can give you an extra 1/2 stop or more for clarity sake. you can read a good review on it here. Uses the konica/minolta mount and you can find the Body for under $1000 whish is great for a 10mp+ camera.
//www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Sony/sony_dslra100.asp

//www.ccicameracity.com/sndslra100.html
matter fact here is the body for under $500 (place changes prices alot so my be $493 when I enter this and $700 tommrow afternoon)

heck this system is almost got me thinking I shold switch to sony instead of Canon. Its a good set up.


1. The problem with Sony's IS system is that, being in the body itself, it's not as good as the lens IS systems out there.

2. IS is not going to help when your trying to shoot a jelly-fish that will never stay still enough.


The is system is not perfect but is better than none. And it will help on shots where he is zooming in and can make even subtle diffrences of he is tracking a moving subject.
 10/12/2006 05:54:02 PM · #18
by "Sony Alpha" you of course mean "Pentax K100D", right? :)
 10/12/2006 06:35:50 PM · #19
Ahem. I'm biased, but... Canon 5D + fast glass = King of low light.
 10/13/2006 03:53:34 AM · #20
Heh. I'm with Lament on the Pentax side of things. Although I'd probably go with the K10D myself, the K100D has a 6 megapixel sensor which is probably roughly equivalent to the Nikon D70 for noise...

Canon has a significant advantage with longer exposures and noise, but Nikon does indeed do fairly well at high ISO with faster exposures...

The Pentax 50mm f/1.4 is also the cheapest 50mm f/1.4 out there...

However, Anti-shake is going to be of negligible use for aquarium shots... A lot of that stuff is angled specifically to eliminate glass reflections and is often quite close to the glass as well, so camera shake is a minor issue.

I would strongly recommend the Canon 50mm f/1.4 over the f/1.8. I find the performance of the f/1.8 to be rather poor.

Nikon 50mm lenses are pretty good as well...

Sony cameras have a lot more high ISO noise than they ought to, so I wouldn't put that at the bottom of the recommendation list.
10/13/2006 03:58:34 AM · #21
Originally posted by Nusbaum:
It is with slight fear of causing a brand debate, but I think the canon line is still doing a little better with keeping the noise down at higher ISO settings.

I've always thought that the Fuji Pro series are the best when it comes down to noise, I could be wrong.
 10/13/2006 04:20:43 AM · #22
Nope, they are the best for dynamic range.
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