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 01/07/2007 07:15:53 PM · #76
As CO2 increases, so does temperature. There IS a timelag - the timescale here is huge



Message edited by author 2007-01-07 20:20:59.
 01/07/2007 07:16:35 PM · #77
Does it matter who puts out the information. Who really knows? Who?

What I am saying is both sides of the dispute put out relavent arguments. So how do I as an average person know what to believe. I am not a scholor or a professor. I just want whats best for the people on earth. And for every person who says there is a problem there is another who says there isn't.

Travis
01/07/2007 07:23:59 PM · #78
OK, everyone listen up!

I'm a Scientist, damnit!

A GEOLOGIST to be more specific!

Here is my message to you:

You are all going to die, unless you have the good fortune, at the time of armageddon, to be near a geologist. This geologist may or may not see fit to save your sorry ass.

That's all for now.

EDIT... I'll throw a bone your way for now:
When you see me stop paying my credit card bills, get scared. When I hit the limit on all my cards, kiss your buttox goodbye.

Message edited by author 2007-01-07 19:26:02.
 01/07/2007 07:26:57 PM · #79
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
You are all going to die, unless you have the good fortune, at the time of armageddon, to be near a geologist. This geologist may or may not see fit to save your sorry ass.

What will you do, build us a starship out of rocks?
 01/07/2007 07:28:15 PM · #80
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
You are all going to die, unless you have the good fortune, at the time of armageddon, to be near a geologist. This geologist may or may not see fit to save your sorry ass.

What will you do, build us a starship out of rocks?

You'd probably use straw.
;-)
 01/07/2007 07:32:54 PM · #81
Originally posted by Travis99:
Does it matter who puts out the information. Who really knows? Who?


The scientists know.

Originally posted by Travis99:
What I am saying is both sides of the dispute put out relavent arguments. So how do I as an average person know what to believe. I am not a scholor or a professor. I just want whats best for the people on earth. And for every person who says there is a problem there is another who says there isn't.

Travis


For every 100 professional scientists, there is one schmuck with a blog spewing out lies from the petroleum industry.

I'll say it one more time - among the real scientific community, there is no controversy here. They are in agreement.

Unfortunately Global Warming is a political issue. There are many on The Right who hate Global Warming because they hate The Left. They don't care about the truth - they only care about spreading disinformation. They have lots of money and spend it, too.

And about thirty+ groups, well-funded by ExxonMobil, are feeding anybody who will listen fake science.

It IS difficult to use the internet and get good information. Many of the bullshit blogs and Exxon-funded groups have websites that make it seem like they actually care about the planet or the truth.

My advice - stick with actual scientific organizations.

Here is a good start: //www.ipcc.ch/pub/wg1TARtechsum.pdf

and

//lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

Here is a listing of some forty of the bullshit organizations that put out disinformation, and spawn bogus bloga:

//www.motherjones.com/news/featurex/2005/05/exxon_chart.html
 01/07/2007 07:37:16 PM · #82
Originally posted by Flash:


However, back when I listened to your namesake banging away on those skins........



Yeah - he did some great stuff - still does. Wish I had some of that Kool-aid now ;)

Message edited by author 2007-01-07 19:37:34.
 01/07/2007 09:24:31 PM · #83
Are they the same scientist that said we were going into another Ice age in the 1970's. Or different ones?
 01/07/2007 11:09:25 PM · #84
Another good website is Moveon.org....Oh where has Michael Moore Gone lately.
 01/07/2007 11:34:12 PM · #85
I don't think anyone is denying that global warming is occurring. The real debate is whether the current wave of global warming is primarily anthropogenic.
The current warming trends seems to have originated less than 150 years ago, but even the non-Exxon/Mobil-funded RealClimate.org says:
"At least three careful ice core studies have shown that CO2 starts to rise about 800 years (600-1000 years) after Antarctic temperature during glacial terminations. These terminations are pronounced warming periods that mark the ends of the ice ages that happen every 100,000 years or so.

Does this prove that CO2 doesn't cause global warming? The answer is no.

The reason has to do with the fact that the warmings take about 5000 years to be complete. The lag is only 800 years. All that the lag shows is that CO2 did not cause the first 800 years of warming, out of the 5000 year trend."

So, how can CO2 have caused this wave of global warming - 650 years earlier than historical records would have predicted?
 01/08/2007 09:03:36 AM · #86
...and, what I know for sure is that fish fossils have been found in deserts. Meaning that what was once a sea, is now a desert. It became a desert without anyone driving automobiles or flying airplanes or large manufacturing plants spewing smoke into the atmosphere, simply because it occurred prior to these modern "evils". Therefore, the Globe has been in "warming cycles" before and todays alarmist reaction to a "warming cycle" is bogus.

If, however, folks want to discuss the good stewardship principles associated with controlling pollution, ASIDE from the "global warming the sky is falling" mentallity, then I am ready to support it. Recycling is good. Raping the landscape is bad. Just don't cry wolf. It makes me not believe you when there really is one.
 01/08/2007 10:48:41 AM · #87
Loud applause here, for the last two posts.
 01/08/2007 12:01:11 PM · #88
Originally posted by Flash:
...and, what I know for sure is that fish fossils have been found in deserts. Meaning that what was once a sea, is now a desert. It became a desert without anyone driving automobiles or flying airplanes or large manufacturing plants spewing smoke into the atmosphere, simply because it occurred prior to these modern "evils". Therefore, the Globe has been in "warming cycles" before and todays alarmist reaction to a "warming cycle" is bogus.

That is just ignorant.
Do you understand "scale"?
 01/08/2007 12:16:37 PM · #89
Scale
 01/08/2007 12:27:35 PM · #90
Originally posted by Flash:
...and, what I know for sure is that fish fossils have been found in deserts. Meaning that what was once a sea, is now a desert. It became a desert without anyone driving automobiles or flying airplanes or large manufacturing plants spewing smoke into the atmosphere, simply because it occurred prior to these modern "evils". Therefore, the Globe has been in "warming cycles" before and todays alarmist reaction to a "warming cycle" is bogus.


Bear in mind that there are a lot of reasons why this might occur - principally, continents move and landscape changes shape over the course of aeons. The white cliffs of Dover are made up of compressed fossilised sealife (as is all chalk) - it doesn't mean that the water was previously a few hundred feet higher, but rather that the land was previously a few hundred feet lower.

Regardless of whether the warming cycle is man made or not, it is not unreasonable to be alarmed by it. If we are facing, say, a significant increase in the water table, we need to do something about it. I work a lot with insurers - these issues are being factored into your home insurance figures today. If actuaries (not the most exceitable people in the world) are taking this as a serious risk that will require many billions in reserves to handle, then you might want to give it some thought too.

If you think that we have an insignificant impact on the world, spend a few hours at one of the poles without sun cream and marvel at how fast you tan compared to 50 years ago.
 01/08/2007 01:38:16 PM · #91
Originally posted by legalbeagle:
Bear in mind that there are a lot of reasons why this might occur - principally, continents move and landscape changes shape over the course of aeons. The white cliffs of Dover are made up of compressed fossilised sealife (as is all chalk) - it doesn't mean that the water was previously a few hundred feet higher, but rather that the land was previously a few hundred feet lower.


What I read you saying here is that the earth has changed many times since its beginning and continues to change. On this we agree.

Originally posted by legalbeagle:
Regardless of whether the warming cycle is man made or not, it is not unreasonable to be alarmed by it. If we are facing, say, a significant increase in the water table, we need to do something about it. I work a lot with insurers - these issues are being factored into your home insurance figures today. If actuaries (not the most exceitable people in the world) are taking this as a serious risk that will require many billions in reserves to handle, then you might want to give it some thought too.


What I read here is that responsible stewardship is beneficial and worth practicing. Further, paid risk assessors are recalculating their risk levels based on the current "global warming" discussions.

Originally posted by legalbeagle:
If you think that we have an insignificant impact on the world, spend a few hours at one of the poles without sun cream and marvel at how fast you tan compared to 50 years ago.


My personal taste for tanning locations are located on Florida's Gulf, rather than at the poles.


01/08/2007 02:05:44 PM · #92
Wow Loss for words I to agree with legal for a change.
 01/08/2007 02:09:18 PM · #93
Originally posted by coronamv:
Wow Loss for words I to agree with legal for a change.


Okay - how about I edit my post... ; )
 01/08/2007 02:15:41 PM · #94
Originally posted by Flash:
What I read you saying here is that the earth has changed many times since its beginning and continues to change. On this we agree.


It has changed many times. The factor you chose to highlight as evidence of previous global warming (fish fossils in deserts) is not necessarily evidence of previous global warming, but more likely evidence of tectonic plate action over millions of years. I have an ammonite fossil collected from a mountain top for these reasons.

Originally posted by Flash:
What I read here is that responsible stewardship is beneficial and worth practicing. Further, paid risk assessors are recalculating their risk levels based on the current "global warming" discussions.
The issues are regular headline news in "Insurance Day". They are subject to a lot of research by companies that need to know the accurate risk assessment (to remain financially viable but not uncompetitive).

01/08/2007 02:31:13 PM · #95
If the burning of fossil fuels is the root cause of current Global Warming and subsequent earth changes in temperature, then what caused the other "warming cycles" during the earth's history?
 01/08/2007 02:38:21 PM · #96
Originally posted by Flash:
If the burning of fossil fuels is the root cause of current Global Warming and subsequent earth changes in temperature, then what caused the other "warming cycles" during the earth's history?

No one says burning fossil fuels is the "root cause" of global warming -- what current climatologists are saying is that human activity is causing greenhouse gas accumulation to occur at a rate far greater than would occur "naturally."

Global warming (and a subsequent ice age) may be inevitiable, but it is likely to be human actions which determine if that happens in 25 years, or in 2,500 or 25,000 ...
 01/08/2007 02:38:24 PM · #97
I don't know what to expect form global warming, but in CO we have more snow than we know what to do with. And more on the way. And it is cold.
 01/08/2007 02:40:10 PM · #98
Originally posted by boomtap:
I don't know what to expect form global warming, but in CO we have more snow than we know what to do with. And more on the way. And it is cold.

And 70 in New York.
 01/08/2007 02:50:55 PM · #99
Originally posted by GeneralE:
No one says burning fossil fuels is the "root cause" of global warming --


The thread was begun with the alarmist proclamation in the movie that CO2 emmisions (the burning of fossil fuels) is a severe cause for action.

Attached is a brief overview of the article:
"But our focus here is CO2’s role in greenhouse warming – that’s what Al Gore wants us to fret.
…
As illustrated in this graphic, the relationship between CO2 and temperature is logarithmic in nature – that is, as CO2 increases in the atmosphere, it absorbs less and less additional energy to produce correspondingly less and less additional warming. ¬At some point, adding more CO2 to the atmosphere doesn’t significantly change atmospheric temperature.
…
So what's the point at which more CO2 doesn’t cause more warming? Are we near it? The commonly-used range of estimates of CO2’s impact on global temperature should help put any worry into perspective.
As illustrated by this graphic, a doubling of atmospheric CO2 from pre-Industrial Revolution days (280 parts per million to 560 ppm), might increase global temperature from between 0.5 degrees Centigrade to 1.5 degrees Centigrade – that is, not much.
The current atmospheric CO2 level is about 380 ppm and the estimated temperature increase since 1880 (when regular temperature recordkeeping began) is estimated to be about 0.60 degrees Centigrade.
…
and we’re not close to such a doubling.
…

So where does all the fuss about manmade CO2 and global warming come from? Not from actual temperature measurements and greenhouse physics – rather it comes from manmade computer models relying on myriad assumptions and guesswork."

…

Thus, if burning fossil fuels are not the root cause, which I believe they are not, then Al Gore's movie is alarmist BS - which I stated was my opinion at the outset.

01/08/2007 03:20:30 PM · #100
well all you had to say was al gore is full of ....does anyone think he looks like commander ryker fro startrek next generation?
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