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07/27/2003 06:47:31 AM · #1 |
Having changed from traditional SLR to digital a few months ago, I was a bit shocked to see that the minimum aperture of my Olympus C730 is f8. Is this equivalent to an f8 on a 35mm lens, or is there some factor involved (and if so, what is it equivalent to?)
Frank |
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07/27/2003 10:11:52 AM · #2 |
Even F8 is too much,because f16 is rarely used anyway,so why adding additional cost on already costly equipment if none used it!
Olympus E20 have F2-F11
Message edited by author 2003-07-27 10:15:28.
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07/27/2003 10:34:30 AM · #3 |
I'll take the opposite side of that debate. On the telephoto end I can coax F10.2 out of my 995, and it is not nearly enough. I've been in plenty of situations where I want slower shutter speed, can't get it unless I slap on ND filters. How I miss just cranking the aperture to F16 or F22!
Well, one fine day I will commit to a DSLR and solve that problem, but for now, I'll need to continue to find creative work-arounds.
That said, to shoot at small aperture for increased DOF is much less with consumer digicams. The much smaller focal lengths o fdigicam lenses result in greater DOF at the same F-stop. I'm much happier with some of my macro shots with my 995 than with my ol' SLR, mainly because of the much greater DOF.
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07/27/2003 01:49:32 PM · #4 |
| The problem with digital cameras is that they were/are a work in progress. For example I was very disappointed after I bought my Canon G1 to discover that I couldn't use faster than 1/500 second except at f8. This has really crippled my ability to take certain kinds of action shots. |
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07/27/2003 03:15:18 PM · #5 |
It has to do with a variety of things. The main factor is lens technology, combined with focal length and the size of the image sensor.
The equation for determining aperture is:
f#(aperture) = f(lens focal length) / A(diameter of opening)
Message edited by author 2003-07-27 15:16:16.
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07/27/2003 04:13:46 PM · #6 |
The limited aperture is a function of the specific camera, not of the digital medium. One can not really fairly compare a film SLR to even a camera like the Olympus you are using; they're different animals.
Digital SLR cameras are capable of taking full advantage of the ranges their lenses are capable of. In my case, at full extension I can stop down to f/36 on my 28-135 lens and f/45 on my 75-300. This contrasts with f/9.5 at full extension on my previous Minolta camera, which was classified as an "SLR-like" but not a true SLR.
-Terry
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07/27/2003 08:06:10 PM · #7 |
I find the same limitations with my Nikon 5700. f8 is the smallest stop I've been able to achieve. Not that I haven't been able to get some great shots. It's the flexibility that the smaller f-stops allow.
That's why I'm thinking of upgrading to a Canon 10D. |
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07/27/2003 09:09:15 PM · #8 |
Have a look at the tutorial on digital DOF here (learn menu on the top right, and tutorials) Magnetic9999 did a great job of explaining how Digital cameras are different.
In short, the f8 on the 5700 is very different to f8 on an SLR. Probably closer to f32 of f45 SLR equivilant. Depending on your lense chioce an SLR might not help you that much.
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07/27/2003 09:26:36 PM · #9 |
ahhh... this old complaint. With something like these little canons I have here, f8 is as good as it gets. Sure, I may be able to get the DOF (actually, it struggles somehow), I still cannot get a high aperture to accompany a longer shutter speed in well lit conditions (especially when I go out around dawn).
Looks like we might need to dust off the credit card. |
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07/27/2003 09:27:38 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
The limited aperture is a function of the specific camera, not of the digital medium. |
In fact, the limitation has much to do with the "digital medium" as image sensor size is a big limiting factor in determining sharpness for a given aperture.
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Digital SLR cameras are capable of taking full advantage of the ranges their lenses are capable of. In my case, at full extension I can stop down to f/36 on my 28-135 lens and f/45 on my 75-300. This contrasts with f/9.5 at full extension on my previous Minolta camera, which was classified as an "SLR-like" but not a true SLR. |
SLR-ness has nothing to do with aperture restrictions. SLR (Single Lens Reflex) refers to the viewfinder having through-the-lens capability through use of an internal mirror (which pops up when the "film" is to be exposed). Cameras supporting an interchangeable lens system generally must be SLR so that the viewfinder closely approximates the lens conditions.
In the case of your Minolta, the image sensor size (and pixel density) probably had most to do with the aperture limitations as sharpness would drop off dramatically below f/8. There's a table somewhere that shows this info for various cameras, but the drop-off for the Dimage 7 is f/8, where as the 10D (like the D60) has a drop-off between f/11 and f/16. Yes, you'll increase your DOF at f/16 and below, but you'll get diffraction effects (visible Airy disks at 300dpi etc etc). |
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07/28/2003 01:56:21 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by brettd:
Have a look at the tutorial on digital DOF here (learn menu on the top right, and tutorials) Magnetic9999 did a great job of explaining how Digital cameras are different.
In short, the f8 on the 5700 is very different to f8 on an SLR. Probably closer to f32 of f45 SLR equivilant. Depending on your lense chioce an SLR might not help you that much. |
I'll just add that it's not just about digital cameras being different, since we're really talking about the size of the negative (image sensor for digicams). You'll have to worry about the same thing when changing formats.
Yes, I think the 5700 (6.6mm x 8.8mm) gives an f/8 (35mm) equivalent of something near f/32. The Oly 730uz (3.96mm x 5.27mm) yields something like f/45 (or a bit lower).
When we compare SLR (24mm x 36mm) with large format (8" x 12") we find the equivalent DoF at f/5.6 for 35mm is about f/45 for LF. |
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07/28/2003 02:11:16 AM · #12 |
| You must remember that F/8 will still let in the same amount of light, whether it's a 4x5 Hasselblad or a Canon Elph. |
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07/28/2003 08:08:59 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
There's a table somewhere that shows this info for various cameras, but the drop-off for the Dimage 7 is f/8, where as the 10D (like the D60) has a drop-off between f/11 and f/16. Yes, you'll increase your DOF at f/16 and below, but you'll get diffraction effects (visible Airy disks at 300dpi etc etc). |
Thanks for making this point Dale. Just because you have a lens that can stop down to f/16 or even f/22, doesn't mean you should, since theoretically using small apertures like that may affect picture quality because of diffraction, even on a DSLR like the 10D. (Note that Canon's full-frame sensor camera (the 1Ds) does not show any diffraction-artifacts at f/22, which is the often-quoted diffraction limit for 35mm film.)
This summarizes it nicely, taken from a thread on photo.net:
"...Again, if you have practiced avoiding f/22 with 35mm film cameras, then you should practice avoiding f/16 and f/22 with the Canon EOS D60. If you don't mind the results had with 35mm cameras at f/22, you probably won't mind the results had with the EOS D60 at f/16 and maybe even at f/22." -Mike Davis
Don't forget that dust-on-sensor problems are exacerbated by smaller apertures as well.
Also, although f/8 is f/8 is f/8 regardless of the camera or lens, that is true at the image plane only. Once that image is captured and processed, the resulting image can vary wildly! An f/8 picture enlarged to 8x10 from a 4x5 medium format film camera is very different from an 8x10 made from a 10mm digital sensor. |
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