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06/16/2008 02:36:32 PM · #201 |
I think that even his style of writing makes it clear that he is highly opinionated, not necessarily objective--a clue to anyone about to take his word as gospel from on high....(probably they take Wiki as the authoritative, undisputed source of facts, too).
It is not that hard to lift the useful bits out, or to be entertained by his over the top style.
I would point out there seem to be no shortage of very strong opinions on almost any topic here in DPC forums.... |
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06/16/2008 02:41:16 PM · #202 |
Originally posted by chromeydome:
I would point out there seem to be no shortage of very strong opinions on almost any topic here in DPC forums.... |
I'm not sure I agree with that!.............8>)
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06/16/2008 02:44:01 PM · #203 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by chromeydome:
I would point out there seem to be no shortage of very strong opinions on almost any topic here in DPC forums.... |
I'm not sure I agree with that!.............8>) |
Well, then, sir, it is My Very Strong Opinion that you are Incorrectly Uncertain!!! :-)) |
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06/16/2008 03:18:54 PM · #204 |
Originally posted by togtog:
...and his caveat page is kinda hidden away under the About link at the bottom of the page. |
The About (or "About Me", "About Us", etc.) would be the first place to look to find disclosures, etc. Come on, tog, you're being ridiculously unfair to this guy. You are free to create your own website and post your own opinions, however wrong they may be and make as much money as you can off of it. Just my opinion, anyway.
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06/16/2008 03:30:30 PM · #205 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by togtog:
...and his caveat page is kinda hidden away under the About link at the bottom of the page. |
The About (or "About Me", "About Us", etc.) would be the first place to look to find disclosures, etc. Come on, tog, you're being ridiculously unfair to this guy. You are free to create your own website and post your own opinions, however wrong they may be and make as much money as you can off of it. Just my opinion, anyway.
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Lol, love the graphic Art.
I was just attempting to explain why some people might take Ken too seriously is all. Usually when I click an about link it is some boring blurb about this company was founded in 1981 by the hands of the smith brothers, always loyal to each other they wanted to be loyal to others too, etc.etc. So I didn't even notice the link to be honest, just the insults (playful as they may have been) against the SB-800. :)
But like I said, I was too hard on the guy and his website and did not check into it throughly enough to find the caveat page. I can see how his brand of humour can be funny to some so I'm not trying to knock that either.
I have the habit of... not always speaking for myself but attempting to speak for others, i.e. in this case what could happen if someone did not read the About link before ordering their SB-600, or didn't have a sense of humor like I obviously don't. ;)
I honestly meant no general harm by my posts here and I ask forgiveness from those I have offended though certain opinions will remain mine. :) |
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06/16/2008 04:19:53 PM · #206 |
Originally posted by togtog:
I honestly meant no general harm by my posts here and I ask forgiveness from those I have offended though certain opinions will remain mine. :) |
No worries. Buy the tshirt and all is forgiven. :P
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06/16/2008 04:33:48 PM · #207 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by togtog:
I honestly meant no general harm by my posts here and I ask forgiveness from those I have offended though certain opinions will remain mine. :) |
No worries. Buy the tshirt and all is forgiven. :P |
Art you are a genius or is it... |
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06/25/2008 03:21:30 AM · #208 |
| Thing is, Ken Rockwell takes better photo's then almost all the people who talk garbage about him. Honestly, I love how people love to fight about him and his view's instead of taking photos. In MY opinion of course, also in MY opinion Ken Rockwell is the freaking man, thats just me though. |
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06/25/2008 09:05:52 AM · #209 |
>_> <_<
Did you know that professional skydivers with 1000+ dives are more likely to die related to the activity than amateurs? It's true, as skydivers get more experienced they learn shortcuts which save time but increase risk, while at the same time they become over confidant in their abilities and often fail to double check their equipment especially their shoots.
Just because someone has been around the block 100 times and takes great pictures doesn't mean they are infallible. ;)
Not that anyone said or implied that he was in fact infallible.
Just saying, hehe...
* These words are the responsibility of their respective authors and do not in anyway endorse the opinions or feelings of DPC, it's members, or it's advertisers.
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06/25/2008 01:25:16 PM · #210 |
Originally posted by gregory533185:
Thing is, Ken Rockwell takes better photo's then almost all the people who talk garbage about him. Honestly, I love how people love to fight about him and his view's instead of taking photos. In MY opinion of course, also in MY opinion Ken Rockwell is the freaking man, thats just me though. |
I had never actually looked at KR's website gallery before this....and now I'd just like the ten minutes of my life back. Can you help me with that Greg?
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06/25/2008 02:33:49 PM · #211 |
Originally posted by gregory533185:
Ken Rockwell is the freaking man |
What is he freaking about? Not the T-Shirts I'm selling, I hope... |
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06/29/2008 02:01:45 AM · #212 |
Well Gentleman, you got me there. Honestly I have a dark sense of humor and seem to like the guy. I do like someone who goes out there and upsets others and makes them think. If you all haven't noticed with the amount of post's on this forum here the man's style has paid off. So many people love or hate the man, and alot of people like myself seem to like him. I think he's the freaking man, why? We'll apparently he is an advertising genius as he has all of us going to his site either to love or hate him. More hits on his site, more views and such. No such thing as bad publicity in my book, and heck we'll we sure are giving him some. I honestly don't care about his legacy, but I do like his style. Wan't to get those ten minutes back dude? I'll lend you the flux capacitor if you want stick it in your car if you really want them so badly. I didn't plan on joining just to talk about Rockwell, I was honestly going to join anyway, and I will start posting up some pictures as soon as I get back home, you all seem like a cool bunch of people, lets toss this behind us and take some pictures, what do you all say?
Regards,
Greg |
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07/14/2008 08:56:08 AM · #213 |
I find his advise helpful - for someone like me, with a limited budget, finding a way to enter the DSLR world with the least cost without making a finalcial blunder (500 USD is a large amount of money for me), his kind of advice really helped. Not that I did not read Thom or other reviews out there.
After a year of browsing , lurking around in forums, reading and re-reading Ken, Thom, Bob Atkins, Luminous Landscape, photo.de and numerous sites, I have finally bought the D40 with the kit lens as Ken's advise seems the most sound and make the most sence. Hope to make good photos with it as I develop as a photographer - good enough to make his recommendation the correct choice.
His advise of learning how to use your equipment rather than focusing on the equipment really helped. I have just created a flickr account and uploaded a photo I took after learning from his site, using a pentax optio (2005 model) that I only started really appreciating after reading his writings.
//www.flickr.com/photos/28583663@N03/2667821706/
Most forum posts that I have visited that has his name in the topic ( I used to google his name to get his site and all these other links come up and I have visited a few out of curiosity) are mainly about bashing him up.
So this post to just put in my 2 bits - and yes, it's another post after a user has just registered, but hopefully I'll be around to post some more once I learn to submit photos here - assuming I can get some that are fit to be submitted!
Would love some feedback about my photo as well to help me improve.
Message edited by author 2008-07-14 09:00:00. |
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07/14/2008 09:07:15 AM · #214 |
While not necessarily thinking that either apply to KR, I would like to say that the qualitative terms 'genius' and 'fool' are not mutually exclusive.
A T-shirt with "All fellow geniuses and fools, please agree that we are mutually exclusive" printed on it, would get my order. Preferably with "History records very little in the way of mental activity on the part of the mass of mankind" - Aldous Huxley - in small print on the back.
Come to think of it, a book of T-shirts might come in handy.
I do hope I'm not drifting off topic. |
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07/14/2008 11:50:24 AM · #215 |
| Here we go, the little green head of jealousy strikes again. Ken has some good info, and obviously does a lot of research to get it. He shares it on his website FREE of charge for anyone that may be interested. Of course he is biased to Nikon, that's the tool he uses to make a living. And if I had a lens like that and a website, you can be sure I'm going to have it on the front page too, and be proud of it, like a pornstar is proud of his large tool that he makes a living with. I wish I could afford half of the equipment he has. Most photographers who bitch or make fun of him are mostly jealous, because their career has not been as prosperous as his, and they can't afford to buy what he has. I have visited his site many times, and have based some of my purchases on his reviews of certain items. I got this info for FREE, from someone who has knowledge of the Nikon product, and who uses it daily. Although I don't agree with all of his opinions, I do feel his knowledge and on hands experience outweighs reviews from people who don't use their product everyday. So to all the little green people, get over yourselves. Although I can't say Ken is the absolute best spurce for Nikon reviews, he is a very good source of knowledge and it is FREE! |
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07/14/2008 11:52:24 AM · #216 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Most photographers who bitch or make fun of him are mostly jealous, because their career has not been as prosperous as his, and they can't afford to buy what he has. |
Care to back that up? |
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07/14/2008 12:09:40 PM · #217 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
...So to all the little green people... |
Well thank God at least I am safe, as I am little black bird and not a little green people at all, see my profile if you don't believe me! |
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07/14/2008 12:23:49 PM · #218 |
Originally posted by rugman1969:
Although I can't say Ken is the absolute best spurce for Nikon reviews, he is a very good source of knowledge and it is FREE! |
And most importantly, the information is just that......information, what you do with it is up to you.
What I don't understand is why people seem bound and determined to trash the guy.....if you don't like him, his site, or his info/advice, MOVE ON!
I appreciate his knowledge and style......I find him both amusing and informative.
But if I am contemplating buying a piece of equipment I will make my own decision and live with the results. I'm not going to blame someone else for my choice.
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07/14/2008 12:39:37 PM · #219 |
That's just the way of the world.
When you're famous for whatever reason, just as many people who love ya will hate you too ! |
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07/14/2008 02:50:02 PM · #220 |
Only 499 left! Call in the next 5 minutes and I'll double your order! That's TWO geniuses and fools for the price of one! But wait, that's not all - you will also receive a subscription to DNMC - the magazine for people who are neither fools nor geniuses, but are literal thinkers!
Hurry! Operators are standing by. ...oh, wait- no they're not, they're out having a smoke. Wait about 5 minutes before you call. |
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07/14/2008 03:28:32 PM · #221 |
Whoever had bets on me posting a rant, you won. However fair warning for future bets, this is my last rant and hopefully my last reply in this thread. and yes I mean that.
I'll try not to rant, heh... I will not use personal attacks. Please be accepting council...
I BEG those who love Ken, and those who hate him to please read this post with an open mind.
Foreword:
The thread was buried, someone revived it. If that person said something negative about Ken or his website, I honestly doubt anyone would complain about replies arguing against that. So I believe it to be fair for the opposite to be true. It is unfair to say only positive posts are allowed, just like it would be unfair to only allow posts that are critical.
I do not believe it is right to attack Ken. I know I have done that in the past and it was out of anger, it was wrong, and I will try not to do so again. I do believe it is fair to criticize his actions or inaction however. I will try to be clear in the future both to you and to myself about exactly what I am criticizing.
The Good:
Ken Rockwell provides a website with a wealth of useful information on many different topics of photography. I think it is awesome of him to share his knowledge and experience with anyone and everyone completely free of charge.
I have bookmarked several of his pages on lens information for reference. I only have a total of 10 bookmarks, so his take up 20% of that total.
I am not jealous of him, he has obviously worked very hard to reach the position he is in although I admit I have not educated myself that much about him to know what that position is, I'm just going on word of mouth from others. There is a simple cure to jealous, flip a coin and imagine if it lands on heads you get all that you desire, if it lands on tails you lose everything you have. Most people will choose not to take that chance and neither would I.
The Bad:
So why don't I get warm fuzzies when someone mentions him or his website? Why do I watch this thread like a hawk and come running like some jealous boyfriend every time someone looks at him? ...ok that maybe sounds a little wrong...
Ken is very opinionated. That in itself isn't bad per say. I am very opinionated and there are things I will not slide on.
However as I know first hand, the stronger the opinion, the more solid the opinion, the more friction it will cause for those who have a different opinion. This is how wars start. Quick example, Ken believes the SB-600 to be the best Nikon flash, I believe the SB-800 to be the best flash.
Ken is certain of his opinion, as I am in mine. It comes down to personal preference. If the 600 works best for him awesome, I love choices and the 800 has more so I love the 800. Neither of us is right or wrong.
What bugs me for example is he makes a specific point to call out the 800 as being aimed at idiots and being a waste of money, and states his opinion as fact. That is cool when something is a fact, but an opinion is an opinion.
* This point does not affect me, I always check several reviews and base my choices on that. It might affect others though buying their first flash. Ken is popular, the top of google, and seems very sure of what he is saying. Why question his advice when he seems so certain.
Some here would say it is a persons own fault for buying the wrong item. I respectfully disagree. People should check and double check, yes. However people make mistakes, especially those who are new and don't know who to trust. They either have to take someones word, or try every single product.
Another point that bugs me is his comparison between point and shoot cameras, and expensive SLRs. Showing how close the results are between a $250 camera and a $5000 camera can be. Again, I think this is a good thing. Too many people do assume you need an expensive camera just to take snapshots or that they can buy talent.
Buuuuuuut, taking what he says, again at face value might lead someone to buying a cheap camera and not understand they may have high noise, high distortion, slow response, etc.
* Again this point doesn't affect me, I always check every detail before buying. However someone new to photography, or experienced and upgrading might make the wrong choice based on his website.
So, in the absolute simplest sense, I am worried someone will make a bad choice after reading his website, or to be more specific certain pages linked from google on his website.
Ken's website does in fact have a disclaimer stating his website and everything contained is just an opinion, with some details changed or made up, a satire site meant for entertainment purposes only.
This is my final point.
It bugs me that his site is satire while at the same time not seeming so. He doesn't take it to far as to make it obvious to new photographers, he actually probably drives a few away with his "remarks" and them taking him too seriously. I'm in the latter boat, or was anyway.
The problem comes down to his disclaimer, or rather lack of one. I know this is the point people seem to disagree with me the most on.
On a pack of smokes, the side lists health effects. Everyone knows smoking is bad, but every pack says so anyway.
This is because people are sue happy, why does this matter? Because putting that disclaiming on the side is considered required in order to properly ensure the consumer has been properly informed of the risks of smoking. Even when it is something obvious.
On DPC when submitting a photo a link to the rules are displayed every time, DPC could, and does bury the rules on another page, however the rules are linked to.
This helps prevent problems, people can't claim they were not informed, they have nowhere to go and that is the way it should be.
It is typical to either state terms, disclaimers, etc. up front, or to provide asterisks to points requiring disclaimers, with a disclaimer listed at the bottom.
I think 90% or more of ammunition would be lost against his website if he put a link at the top of every page saying something like "Please note, this website is satire and opinion only for my own amusement, take it for what it is, for more info please check my About page."
And that's it everyone. I cannot possibly state my position any more clearly. If this reply contains any errors they are made via ignorance and not malice and I accept any counter points to my own. However I am finished arguing, debating, and explaining. I will be limiting any future replies to this topic purely on a point counter-point basis if someone states something which is not correct.
I thank you all, for taking the time to read this. I hope you now understand where some of us might be coming from, or at least where I am coming from. I apologize to anyone I have offended through error on my part including Ken Rockwell himself.
PS- I love you Art, marry me, *dies laughing*, ok you will have to marry my corpse sorry about that...
Message edited by author 2008-07-14 15:28:44. |
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07/14/2008 03:57:01 PM · #222 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Whoever had bets on me posting a rant, you won. However fair warning for future bets, this is my last rant and hopefully my last reply in this thread. and yes I mean that. |
Sure.......the check's in the mail, you'll respect us in the morning.......8>)
Originally posted by togtog:
I think 90% or more of ammunition would be lost against his website if he put a link at the top of every page saying something like "Please note, this website is satire and opinion only for my own amusement, take it for what it is, for more info please check my About page." |
You started your premise "I think"......8>)
Point truly is.......the 'Net is the information place where you MUST double/triple check any and all info. NO disclaimer should be needed.....caveat emptor.
Ken has ample disclaimer info, *I* think.......8>)
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07/14/2008 04:06:01 PM · #223 |
Well, just to remove any doubt that this is not Ken! I am not here to defend him or crucify him - just to give my personal appreciation for having got what i feel is correct advise from his site for my first DSLR.
My exposure to photography started when I was 10 years old with an 8 mm minolta that loaded a cartridge. I could not get film for it except through a film studio that would wind up my cartridege with film from an 8 mm role for shooting movies. I still have it sonewhere.
Later I used my father\'s canon (don\'t remember the model number) which was in those times (1976-77) completely manual focus with a split image for focusing and a 50 mm 1.4 lens. I was all of 12 years old and still have some really beautiful nostalgic photos that I took of my dad and family. That got sold off and my dad got a pentax with a horrid kit zoom lens 3.5 something .. and that is still with my brother in Sydney somewhere. After the canon 50 mm 1.4, the pentax zoom lens images never achieved the clarity, contrast and quality of the canon.
I last bought an Olympus epic 2.8 fixed lens during my stay in the USA in 2004 and that has given me a lot of photos that I really treasure. I still use it for film photography and have once or twice shot slide with it.
The pentax optio was a gift from my brother and filled in the the period of my daughter\'s birth and the need to capture her early years.
So back to Ken - my next search was for a camera to get good photos of my daughter as the pentax optio was not up to keeping up to her active ways. So the search for a better camera started. My brother-in-law has the first cannon rebel model and the initial push was to get the latest version of that. But researching the web led to one thing and another and finally to Ken\'s site ... and on to other sites as well. After having almost decided to go for Pentax, I finally decided that it would be better in the long run to go for either Nikon or Canon.
Bob Atkins seems to be the only one that really put up a good personal experience based argument for the cannon system. But Ken, as some have pointed out already, has a great selling style and presents his views with more balls and take no prisoner attitude. Thom also gives great advise, and between the 2 of them have helped me make my decision to go for the D40.
Also the information and skills I learnt from Ken's site, though basic, greatly helped improve my photos with my pentax optio.
As to his skills, at least with SEO he seems to be doing real good ... I work with web developement and I sure could learn a thing or two from him ...
I see that 5 people have seen my photo here at
//www.flickr.com/photos/28583663@N03/
but none have given any kind of suggestion for improving my photography ... would really appreciate it if any of you would find the time .... I know there is tons of experience with the various people posting here so it would be good if you can rub some of that on to people like us starting off now ...
Hopefully this has convinced you that this is not Ken so comments would be greatly appreciated!!!
Message edited by author 2008-07-14 16:16:20. |
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07/14/2008 04:37:49 PM · #224 |
| Please, everyone (and this means you), let this thread die. Sheeesh. |
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07/14/2008 04:43:37 PM · #225 |
Originally posted by krafty1:
Please, everyone (and this means you), let this thread die. Sheeesh. |
Well, it might have, if you hadn't bumped it. ;-) |
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