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11/25/2002 10:46:43 AM · #1 |
| On our photojournalism images, the class failed. Still life had no business in this theme. Some of the better pictures had nothing to do with the topic and the people voting on this site seem to think that makes a big deal so they failed. My image might have been uninteresting but the image was clear and had a topic. I could have commented on these images but I would have been repetitious so I am stating it now. I didn’t even get a laugh like two weeks ago voting, when you had an over saturated frog sitting in a spoon for first place macro. This week will be better for everyone can use their style and the still life people that have found a home here will get back on track and be back on top. |
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11/25/2002 10:54:11 AM · #2 |
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11/25/2002 11:11:22 AM · #3 |
| Bah humbug indeed! FYI, my shot actually DID make the newspaper... |
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11/25/2002 11:12:41 AM · #4 |
The theme included magazine cover shots, which may have been a still life photo...just mvho kandice
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11/25/2002 11:13:41 AM · #5 |
| testing my signature line |
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11/25/2002 11:15:18 AM · #6 |
It was newspaper & magazines and all newspapers and magazines that I read feature both action and still-life.
When you shoot for Management Team (Dutch magazine) you can even setup the whole stil-life shot with and be extreme cliche with business and office stuff. Its the same for computer magazines. National Geographic does a lot of landscapes, nature and cultural objects.
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11/25/2002 11:23:02 AM · #7 |
i just think that the term 'photojournalism" is pretty clear about chronicling events that actually occured. not fake setup.
that magazine allusion in the challenge description, imho, kind of muddied the waters.
power to all who submitted, tho : )
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11/25/2002 11:27:06 AM · #8 |
Did you actually pull out a newspaper or magazine to see what these photographers do? You'll see that you'll alot more than just a 80 year old granny hanging from a window after chasing her cat. Just a thought. I think it was a tough challenge. My submission is tanking but I knew it would from the get go. lol.
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11/25/2002 11:28:23 AM · #9 |
* This message has been edited by the author on 11/25/2002 11:25:33 AM.
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11/25/2002 11:44:31 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
i just think that the term 'photojournalism" is pretty clear about chronicling events that actually occured. not fake setup.
that magazine allusion in the challenge description, imho, kind of muddied the waters.
power to all who submitted, tho : )
I'll disagree -- I think the challenge pretty clearly was to shoot in a photojournalistic style. To require people to actually find and document a "newsworthy" event seems too extreme a burden for this site and contest, and would confer unfair advantages on some members. Not that I might not give "bonus points" for real events -- just don't think people should be penalized just because there was no mayhem within their coverage area. |
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11/25/2002 11:52:29 AM · #11 |
I think this challenge was tough indeed. And if someone can't find a good PJ photo then maybe they shouldn't enter the challenge. It seems kind of stupid to enter the challenge with a photo of a cat. Get negative comments and a low score and then complain publicly about the poor scores & comments. I don't think it's fair for voters & commenting people because now they are made to be the bad guy because someone decided that they absolutely must enter the challenge at any cost.
Another gripe I have is that Photojournalism is not always about technique. Sometimes it's just about capturing the moment. No matter if there's a branch in the way or if the person is not in a "good" pose for the photo.
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11/25/2002 11:52:52 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
i just think that the term 'photojournalism" is pretty clear about chronicling events that actually occured. not fake setup.
I have to say that I disagree too.
Photojournalism really just means photographs taken to use within journals - and that term is generally accepted to include printed media such as newspapers and magazines.
Although it can sometimes be more narrowly used to describe a specific photographic style I think it behooves us to try and be as open in our interpretation of the word as reasonably possible.
Just my 2 pence anyway...
* This message has been edited by the author on 11/25/2002 11:50:13 AM.
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11/25/2002 11:53:19 AM · #13 |
definitely!!! shouldnt have to be a fire or an arrest or an accident.
my point was i'd prefer to see a chronicled 'real' event in this challenge, over a set up shot .
even it's people waiting for the bus or something equally 'newsworthy'
: )
* This message has been edited by the author on 11/25/2002 11:58:15 AM. |
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11/25/2002 11:55:18 AM · #14 |
i really agree with the philosophy of this. as addictive as the site is, there's nothing forcing you to enter if you don't have a shot :) ..
you wouldnt enter a figure ice-skating championship on roller blades for example, or a try to top a Quake III tournament with your tetris score :P
nothing's stopping ya from entering but if you do, you should take yer lumps quietly, lol
Originally posted by psychephylax:
I think this challenge was tough indeed. And if someone can't find a good PJ photo then maybe they shouldn't enter the challenge. It seems kind of stupid to enter the challenge with a photo of a cat. Get negative comments and a low score and then complain publicly about the poor scores & comments. I don't think it's fair for voters & commenting people because now they are made to be the bad guy because someone decided that they absolutely must enter the challenge at any cost.
Another gripe I have is that Photojournalism is not always about technique. Sometimes it's just about capturing the moment. No matter if there's a branch in the way or if the person is not in a "good" pose for the photo.
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11/25/2002 11:56:39 AM · #15 |
| I think your image should hold its own without a title... even if it is a cliche shot of a flower or whatever. Some shots in the challenge are not typical photojournalistic images but are nice nonetheless... I just dont think you should rely on the title to fit your image to the challenge... I tend to give higher marks to images that fit the challenge without the title and then the others get ranked according to technical merit artistic merit and are slightly penalized for relying on the title. This way it can still be a good image that doesn't necessarily fit the challenge but it doesn't get a 1 or 2 from me. |
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11/25/2002 12:04:40 PM · #16 |
I think that some people are WAY to closed minded on this topic.
The comment I received (combined with my low score) said that he does not see the photojournalism in my picture. Well After taking that comment and looking at the other submissions, I dont see many photojournalism pics have been submitted.
More things hit the front page than a fotball game or a tragic event. There are MANY different types of daily, weekly or monthly publicatons that have front pages.
What makes it photojournalism to me is getting a picture that is going to make some want to pick up the publication and read the story behind the picture and the title.
James |
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11/25/2002 12:15:38 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
i really agree with the philosophy of this. as addictive as the site is, there's nothing forcing you to enter if you don't have a shot :) ..
you wouldnt enter a figure ice-skating championship on roller blades for example, or a try to top a Quake III tournament with your tetris score :P
nothing's stopping ya from entering but if you do, you should take yer lumps quietly, lol
My point exactly...I sat out plenty of challenges and when I feel I have something that is excellent for a challenge I submit. I'm sick & tired of the overall narrowmindness of the people on this site. A very good flower photo can rate higher than a photo that meets the challenge. That's gotta be depressing for others as well.
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11/25/2002 12:23:46 PM · #18 |
Photojournalism
'Put yourself in the shoes of a magazine or newspaper photographer, and try to capture a shot worthy of the front page. Good luck! Your photograph must be taken this week.'
Maybe I am missing something but it doesn't seem to suggest that this has to be the front page of a newspaper...
I personally do think that magazine front pages/ covers can be included in this challengew without being over generous in interpretation.
It doesn't say it has to be a paparazzi shot or limit it to a newspaper.
And even if it does - many newspapers use shots that are not taken at an event itself but which illustrate the main story - a macro of a pile of capsules can illustrate a front page story about viagra more effectively (and tastefully) that an action shot of it in use!!
Also, in photojournalism these days pictures seldom do stand without an accompanying title. They are most often accompanied by an article which itself is emblazoned with a large and attention-grabbing headline.
Why are we being tougher in our interpretation of front page suitability (in terms of content, not technical perfection) that a real editor may be?
Kavey
* This message has been edited by the author on 11/25/2002 12:21:58 PM.
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11/25/2002 12:24:04 PM · #19 |
Hi, I'm new to this site, I have voted on two challenges already, but this is the first one I entered. Personally I loved this challenge, but I was on my school newspaper in highschool, and continue in college. I had the chance to go to some highschool national competitions for journalism both National Student Press Association and Junior Education Association. I had the chance of sitting in while judges (professional photographers and teachers) talked about the faults and the positives of the pictures in the group. It was a terrific learning experience! I wanted to let people know a little bit about what they talked about.
+ good focus, + good colors, + lack of graininess, + catching the right moment, + expressions, +BEING ABLE TO TELL A STORY. This was a big one! + good angle for shooting
- Posed subject, or subject looking directly at the camera, - bad cropping, and unknown focus for picture, - lack of human aspect (at least for newspapers the best photos ALWAYS have a human in them), - background (paying attention when shooting making sure to shift if say a telephone pole is growing out of someones head)
Also during these competitions, the judges NEVER looked at the titles or captions before giving their suggestions to students. A photo should definitely stand on its own, and be able to tell a story on its own. I agree, that there are many magazines that have still lifes, and sunsets, but these photographers are often considered more to be art photographers then photojournalists. Our job was to go out and try and find the story, not make one up! The worst thing that a newspaper photographer can do is to fake a photo (BIG SIN!)
I hope that this information helps to clear up photojournalism and what to look for. I wanted to let some of the members who were saying that this challenge was failed know that there are quite a few very good photos on here that would definitely make the front page! I think the criticism on here is terrible, even though I agree that some people should not have entered, and just put anything in they could, I still think that overall people really tried to do this very hard challenge! Good luck to everyone, and I hope that the comments you are receiving and informative and helpful!
-Talya
18 yr. old student
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11/25/2002 12:38:04 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by RiderGal:
Hi, I'm new to this site, I have voted on two challenges already, but this is the first one I entered. Personally I loved this challenge, but I was on my school newspaper in highschool, and continue in college. I had the chance to go to some highschool national competitions for journalism both National Student Press Association and Junior Education Association. I had the chance of sitting in while judges (professional photographers and teachers) talked about the faults and the positives of the pictures in the group. It was a terrific learning experience! I wanted to let people know a little bit about what they talked about.
+ good focus, + good colors, + lack of graininess, + catching the right moment, + expressions, +BEING ABLE TO TELL A STORY. This was a big one! + good angle for shooting
- Posed subject, or subject looking directly at the camera, - bad cropping, and unknown focus for picture, - lack of human aspect (at least for newspapers the best photos ALWAYS have a human in them), - background (paying attention when shooting making sure to shift if say a telephone pole is growing out of someones head)
Also during these competitions, the judges NEVER looked at the titles or captions before giving their suggestions to students. A photo should definitely stand on its own, and be able to tell a story on its own. I agree, that there are many magazines that have still lifes, and sunsets, but these photographers are often considered more to be art photographers then photojournalists. Our job was to go out and try and find the story, not make one up! The worst thing that a newspaper photographer can do is to fake a photo (BIG SIN!)
I hope that this information helps to clear up photojournalism and what to look for. I wanted to let some of the members who were saying that this challenge was failed know that there are quite a few very good photos on here that would definitely make the front page! I think the criticism on here is terrible, even though I agree that some people should not have entered, and just put anything in they could, I still think that overall people really tried to do this very hard challenge! Good luck to everyone, and I hope that the comments you are receiving and informative and helpful!
-Talya
18 yr. old student
:-)
Good post, however, where whould photojournalistic wedding photography fit? The way a lot of photography books describe it, it's a style. There is another style, which is documentary photography; this is where no fakes can be presented, and the artistic expression most of the time is of no importance. However the PJ STYLE of photography usually implyies, a combination of candid and fine art photogoraphy.
Just a though.
Dimitrii
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11/25/2002 12:49:11 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
i just think that the term 'photojournalism" is pretty clear about chronicling events that actually occured. not fake setup.
that magazine allusion in the challenge description, imho, kind of muddied the waters.
power to all who submitted, tho : )
I really don't think the term is at all clear about whether or not a PJ shot can be "set up", especially within the parameters of DP Challenge. I was told by a highly respected member of this site that setting up a shot for this challenge would be fine. I didn't, but I think that making remarks like "the term is pretty clear...not fake setup" in this forum may inappropriately cause voters to think that setting up a shot should be voted down. I think we need to be really careful not to add new bias to the "definition" of the challenge while voting is happening. If we want to bias the definition, we should do that BEFORE Sunday night. If setting up a picture should result in lower scores, shouldn't the photog be informed of that before he submits?
Seems a little backward to assume that everyone understands this the same way, then clear up the definition after the fact :-)
And I agree - power to all who submitted. And wisdom to the voters :-)
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11/25/2002 01:26:51 PM · #22 |
I found this quote the other day... from //www.nlford.com/essay.htm. I think it describes what photojournalism is supposed to accomplish very well.
"A great photo happens when a photographer sees a situation unfolding in front of them that evokes an emotion that the photographer feels deep down, in the middle of their chest. And in a split second, they then make a conscience choice of exposure, lens, depth of field, lighting, body language, composition, etc., and releases the shutter. The film is then processed, scanned, laid out on a page, printed on a press, driven across town to the newspaper carrier who throws it on some guy's porch, who then opens the newspaper and looks down at that photo … and if that guy gets the same feeling deep down in the middle of his chest that the photographer did when they viewed the situation in the first place, they have made a great photo." - Nancy L. Ford |
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11/25/2002 01:59:05 PM · #23 |
My score is the worst I've seen in a while, and the thing is that the photo has meaning to me. I forgot that you should never enter a photo that means something HERE. My photo is about an actual event, not a fake set up. Unfortunately my photo is not beautiful because it is NOT set up. My one comment so far is that it isn't good because there are no people in it. I think there are definitely times where a photo can stand on it's own without people in it.
I really saw very few photos in this challenge worthy of "photojournalism".
I agree with Mag - if you don't have a photo, don't enter!
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11/25/2002 02:06:32 PM · #24 |
not exactly what i said .. more like if u have one that you know aint great, dont complain if it does bad : )
Originally posted by TerryGee:
I agree with Mag - if you don't have a photo, don't enter!
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11/25/2002 02:12:22 PM · #25 |
sorry mag...I guess I read it how I wanted it to read.
Yours was " there's nothing forcing you to enter if you don't have a shot"
I still agree :)
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