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DPChallenge Forums >> Out and About >> Freeman Patterson Workshop Group Thread
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07/24/2005 10:38:42 PM · #1
This thread will work like the DPC Mentorship threads, basically following the rules of the road (even if you are familiar with the mentorshop thread rules, read these, they are modified for the group though)

Group: Freeman Patterson (FP) Workshop Group (FPWG)
Moderator: nshapiro
Participants: nshapiro, dahkota, AJAger, Nusbaum, glad2badad, ursula, GeneralE, colyla, fifield, bear_music, cpanaioti, Falc, di53, waterlillies, BlackDot, suprada, wkmen, dwterry, skiprow, arpita, DocInfinity

Not everyone will participate in every exercise. There are no obligations to do each one, but the group will move forward at a regular pace (to be determined) that works for the majority, if not every member.

We'll be discussing the exact workshop methodologiy in later posts, but we need to set the basic ground rules for this thread, and we are going to follow the mentorship rules, mainly.

MEMBERS AND NON-MEMBERS READ THIS (members note #3 especially):

1. If you are not an active member of this group, please feel free to follow this thread. It is not intended to be exclusionary - we hope everyone can learn from it.

2. If you are not an active member of this group but have a question or comment, please send it directly to the moderator by Private Message. The moderator will either answer you directly or post your comment and their response to the thread. Thank you for understanding that we are trying to keep these groups small and on-topic. If this experiment takes off, we plan to start more groups to try to accommodate as many people as we can.

3. This thread is about experimenting and learning. We are going to encourage members to post their failures as well as their successes. Please make sure all criticisms are constructive and encouraging. It's also essential that we don't make it a "best shot competition". As you read FP, you'll see he makes a very good point, that when you are in competition for the best photo, you will not feel as free to experiment, and will not think laterally.

4. Have fun learning and helping others learn!

Edit: Added final member. See invitation post for details.

Message edited by author 2005-07-27 02:12:08.
07/24/2005 10:45:20 PM · #2
We are going to start, as we discussed in the invitational thread, with FP's "Photography and the Art of Seeing".

I propose we start over the next week by reading pages 1-54, and the following exercises on page 29, "Exercises in thinking sideways".

I think it would be cool to emphasize blogging/journaling as our communication with each other. In other words, if you are willing, write up your experiences in doing the exercise, and post whatever hits and misses you have that help illustrate the experiment.

We'll see how things work out, but if you have a better idea on how to do this, feel free to write here or PM me.


Message edited by author 2005-07-24 22:48:14.
07/24/2005 10:58:06 PM · #3
Hot Dog! I'm so excited that this is starting! I started reading the book...it's amazing how his words are like smooth like warm water.

You mentioned blogging/journaling....just a heads up (everyone probably already knows, but I only recently discovered) that on buzznet you can set up blogging along with photos and it's free! :) I know a lot of people have accounts over there but I'm still 'discovering' :)

I'm really looking forward to this! Just learning to let go...and go with the flow :) .... and not worry about what other people think.... I'm ready!

Thanks for getting this whole thing started Mr. Neil!



Message edited by author 2005-07-24 22:58:51.
07/25/2005 08:42:15 AM · #4
Great enthusiasm Colette! My original thoughts were to have people journal/blog in the thread, but I can see some benefits for readability for individuals with their own blogs, and posting links to them here.

Blogger is free, and that might be a good way to do it. Also, for those who want an even simpler interface to a blog, and who are not members here (so they don't have a place to host photos), if you get the free Picassa and Hello (from Picassa), you can blog with a super easy local interface, and it posts it for you. But it may be better just to use the Blogger interface (or both), because my initial experiments with Hello seem to suggest a smaller writing pad, and maybe only one picture per post. And the blogger interface itself isn't bad, and gives you the most flexibility. I just set up a sample blog for myself for the FP thread, it's at
My Freeman Patterson Workshop Blog. Note they give you 300MB of space for free for your photos!

Try your own blog, or do your journaling here--whatever works for you. If you do it externally, simply do us a favor and post a link to it each day when you add new entries.
07/25/2005 08:48:19 AM · #5
(Please see "reading assignment" in my earlier post)

Exercise 1. Draw up a list of some photographic rules, then take photographs that break them. For example:

Rule 1. Hold your camera steady
Rule 2. Keep the center of interest is in sharp focus
Rule 3. Adjust your camera so the exposure is right
Rule 4. Use the rule of thirds in composition
... etc.

This is close to the text of Pattersons book, but not exact, so as not to plagiarise.

Blog your experience here or in your FPWG blog!

Message edited by author 2005-07-25 09:17:50.
07/25/2005 08:59:28 AM · #6
Damn - you beat me to it ;-)

Originally posted by nshapiro:

We are going to start, as we discussed in the invitational thread, with FP's "Photography and the Art of Seeing".

I propose we start over the next week by reading pages 1-54, and the following exercises on page 29, "Exercises in thinking sideways".

I think it would be cool to emphasize blogging/journaling as our communication with each other. In other words, if you are willing, write up your experiences in doing the exercise, and post whatever hits and misses you have that help illustrate the experiment.

We'll see how things work out, but if you have a better idea on how to do this, feel free to write here or PM me.


Sounds like a good start. I went to the park and read the first section upto p37, so I'm on the road. Ithink the first thing to note is that the excersises on p29 are examples and that we should first of all work up a list of rules which we might try to break instead of just accepting FP's list.

As a starter here are a couple I would propose:
1. Keep the camera horizontal/vertical - I guess the horizon police will hate this one.
2. Place the main subject on the 1/3 lines - I'm so guilty of having this fixed in my head.

One thing I just discovered - think up the rules to break is real hard ;-)

Any more?

Message edited by author 2005-07-25 09:00:26.
07/25/2005 09:14:53 AM · #7
You mean we actually have to read the words in the book too..?

Just joking. Started reading this weekend as well. Illuminating how much I've been missing by looking and not seeing. I've been trying to break rules this weekend.

Not easy.
07/25/2005 09:24:01 AM · #8
My book should arrive either tomorrow or wednesday. From what has been said here in the forum, it sounds like I was out doing this sort of thing a couple of weeks ago by playing with some "handheld long exposures" where I purposefully blurred the subject.

I'll get out and take some pictures after the book arrives, but in the meantime, I was wondering... do pictures such as these "break the intended rules" ? (too bad they weren't shot for the latest long exposure challenge!)
07/25/2005 09:52:13 AM · #9
You don't exactly need the book yet to do Exercise 1. That's one reason why I restated it here. Also, I think it's fair that if you've already started your way to "seeing" and lateral thinking by breaking rules, you can use those in the discussion/posts here.

David, those are awesome. I was planning on using some of my existing movement blur shots as part of this exercise. Certainly I've broken rule 1 (hold camera still) numerous times intentionally, so I'll be starting with the other rules, and just using my past experience as breaking rule 1 (in this case, redoing isn't necessarily learning!). I will add links to some of those to my new blog as part of my journal (though they are in my DPC portfolio already), but, for example,

77230.jpg
07/25/2005 09:58:11 AM · #10
That's beautifull, Neil. Would you care to share exactly how you did it?
07/25/2005 10:01:29 AM · #11
Originally posted by BlackDot:

That's beautifull, Neil. Would you care to share exactly how you did it?


Hard to describe the movement, but I put the camera on self timer, set it to a 1/2 sec or so exposure, and as the timer signal approached the exposure, I rotated the camera left 1/4 turn, then back and past start 1/4 turn right. Repeat quickly till the actual exposure happens!
07/25/2005 10:24:48 AM · #12
Very cool picture! You know what it reminds me of? Remember those spirograph (right name?) things you had as a kid? A big plastic circle and you took the different size round ones with a pen/pencil and went in circles? (okay...I'm dating myself huh!) Love the effect!

07/25/2005 01:04:47 PM · #13
Dang, I'm in conflict here LOL...

1. My books haven't arrived yet
2. I'm working on self-imposed "learn the parameters of the 20D" exercises, and those are the opposite of rule-breaking
3. Ray and Beetle are showing up tomorrow, and some other guests on Sunday, for a week

Bottom line; I may be late entering participation in this group. But I'm reading along, I'm intersted, and I'll catch up quite soon I think, in early August.

Robt.
07/25/2005 01:23:37 PM · #14
I just added my first "blog" entry to cover my Breaking Rule #1. It was as much an experiment in adding it to the blog versus here as anything else, since I haven't used blogger much. The main advantage I see for that is that you don't use your space up here, if you are loading images that are experimental and not part of your portfolio (in my case, for this rule, I already shot these, so they weren't new, but the principle applies). The other nice thing about it is the continuity you would get as we progress through the exercises. At the end, you will have your own "log" of your progress, without other peoples shots and discussion near it.

On the other hand, it could make it a bit more work to read this thread, though I think that's pretty minor, since we will be providing links

And for your convenience, here's my link again, so you can see how it's progressing:

My Freeman Patterson Workshop Blog.

You can leave comments there on entries too (if someone would please leave one, then that will be a example).

If you want your own blogger, look at the top right of my blogger page, there's a button: "Get your own blog". It's free.

07/25/2005 01:27:52 PM · #15
Not very agressive FP yet, but still. The bathroom window is a reflection off a tile I spotted in the bath.
I was in the park doing my "Getting to grips with my 20D" exercises (shooting different Fstops at 1/60 to see what happens) :-P when this leaf right above my head asked to be shot.
Edit: Images moved to Blog

Message edited by author 2005-07-25 14:09:41.
07/25/2005 01:40:16 PM · #16
OK, wouldn't it make more sense for us to have a deadline, and all reveal our "experimental results" at the same time. My efforts will now be unalterably colored by the postings here already (though I haven't looked closely).

I think it would be different if we were all in the room together, working on projects simultaneously, but these early revelations are one of the aspects of DPC I find most irritating, posting "outtakes" before the challenge starts, and such.

Just a suggestion ... I might not have time to complete the assignments anyway, so it might not matter.
07/25/2005 01:44:27 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:

OK, wouldn't it make more sense for us to have a deadline, and all reveal our "experimental results" at the same time. My efforts will now be unalterably colored by the postings here already (though I haven't looked closely).

I think it would be different if we were all in the room together, working on projects simultaneously, but these early revelations are one of the aspects of DPC I find most irritating, posting "outtakes" before the challenge starts, and such.

Just a suggestion ... I might not have time to complete the assignments anyway, so it might not matter.


That's not a bad idea--we can probably accomodate both ways (don't read the spoilers, and it would be even easier not to do that if people used their blogs to keep their journal.

If you want a deadline, I was thinking we'd do "weekly" assignments (unless others feel differently, open for discussion, of course). So perhaps next Monday we can all post links to our blogs/journals, or post your results here, if you prefer to journal in this thread.
07/25/2005 01:55:17 PM · #18
Weekly seems sensible--I haven't set up a blog site, but I have portfolio space and a pBase account; which method do you prefer? If it's mainly for a place to park mages I have that already, but if you want lots of annotations then the blog site might make more sense.

I found a copy of the book at a local bookstore--I should pick it up later today.
07/25/2005 01:57:52 PM · #19
Originally posted by nshapiro:

My Freeman Patterson Workshop Blog


Found a bug in your post. It's probably not evident to you because you are logged into DPC. Try logging out and it will probably show up.

Anyway... on your very first image, you posted the image URL like this:
http://www.dpchallenge.com/portfolio_edit.php?IMAGE_ID=137745

Try changing it to this and I think it will work:
http://images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/300/137745.jpg

07/25/2005 02:15:19 PM · #20
Thanks David--should be fixed now. I had to copy the link from the View Photo page rather than the Edit Profile page.
07/25/2005 02:18:04 PM · #21
i'll look into blogging later, but for the moment, i got a buncha hardware issues i have to resolve. and, seeing that i'm waiting on my copy of the book, i took neil's footnotes and made up some quick rules to break and broke them.

i might revisit this rule-breaking, but at the moment, i was more interested in breaking dpc rules ;-)

1) focus must be razor sharp
208848.jpg

2) no distracting backgrounds
208846.jpg

3) don't try anything new
208847.jpg
07/25/2005 02:20:02 PM · #22
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Weekly seems sensible--I haven't set up a blog site, but I have portfolio space and a pBase account; which method do you prefer? If it's mainly for a place to park mages I have that already, but if you want lots of annotations then the blog site might make more sense.

I found a copy of the book at a local bookstore--I should pick it up later today.


I did my blog to hopefully set an example you can surpass (I mean in documenting, not competing photos!)

I personally think describing/documenting what you did is important for the group to all benefit. Whether you blog in this thread versus the blogger space (or elsewhere) is a matter of personal preference and personal comfort. I think I will be using Blogger because I like having it all as "my own journal thread". This thread will start to get very busy if everyone were doing it in here.

Message edited by author 2005-07-25 14:20:32.
07/25/2005 02:25:31 PM · #23
Originally posted by nshapiro:

Thanks David--should be fixed now. I had to copy the link from the View Photo page rather than the Edit Profile page.


Hmmm... still not working. Now you have this:

http://www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=77230

If you copy the above into the address line of your browser, you will see that this is taking you to a "page" on dpc. You don't show a page, you want to show an image. That's why I recommended the other URL.

So if you put this into your address bar you'll see only *one* thing, you'll see your image and nothing else:

http://images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/300/137745.jpg

An alternative would be to use the image within a link. And maybe that is what you are trying to do. That way bloggers will see your image *and* if they click on it, it will take them to the page mentioned above. Need any help putting the link together to do this? Just ask.
07/25/2005 02:30:44 PM · #24
if you want the address of an image, right-mouse click on it and select properties, then select the url for the image.

this is true for all images, thumbnails, AND profile images

;-)

Message edited by author 2005-07-25 14:31:22.
07/25/2005 02:38:40 PM · #25
Setting up the blog was pretty easy and quick...
My Blog
...now I just need to take some exercise pics! ;^)

It's nice being able to use space somewhere else for the photos I'll be doing for this workshop instead of using portfolio space on DPC.

Thanks for the heads-up on the blog site Neil.


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