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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Astrophotography - Moon shot
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04/27/2005 01:27:04 PM · #1
I have a question: I submitted the picture "The Rock" in the previous challenge (Rock Paper Scissors) and with a score of 4, many commented the picture as not being well focused and not crips enough. But no one helped be with some tricks to take better Astro Shots of an object being about 380,000ft from the earth and with which you have to deal with:
1. light polution, 2. humidity, 3. soft clouds, 4. very ow light (so high ISO) 5. the movement of the earth vs the moon with a very high magnification. Of course you'll have more cripier image taken by hubble or any other devide that is not under the atmosphere and that is built by the NASA!

I'm new in Astrophotography but I quickly learned that this is not as easy as shooting an object on the earth and it's very very difficult to get a good crisp image, moreover if you have to take the shot during the week of the challenge.

If you have any recommendations of tricks please forward it to me.
04/27/2005 01:34:01 PM · #2
Hi,
Have a look at this: Exposure calculator
I used it a while ago, just to get the idea of what values to use then experimented a bit.

As for other astrophotography, i'm sure a google search will yeild a plethora of results. Jupiter & Saturn are easy to spot at the moment. I you need any ideas look at SKYMAPS, a really handy site.

Good luck dood!
04/27/2005 01:38:53 PM · #3
Hi Hughes,

While I can't offer any help or suggestions on moon shots, I will say that your
Broken Glass submission for the Abandoned Buildings Challenge ROCKS!
04/27/2005 01:45:57 PM · #4
How did you attach your camera to your Meade? I've read THESE GUYS make the best. I only have a ETX-90 so can really justify the expense. I took this handle to the eyepiece

I know its a bit lame! but you see the stripes (if you squint a bit!) with a FAT lens you could probably achieve the same shot.

Message edited by author 2005-04-27 13:46:23.
04/27/2005 01:47:07 PM · #5
Your are right, racer. It is very difficult to get really good astrophotos. Your image is pretty decent but appears to be underexposed and slightly out of focus. Your 8" telescope is probably f/10. The moon's brightness is very close to the brightness of the daylight sky, so use that as a guide for exposure with a f/10 lens.
Focusing is another problem, the image in the slr viewfinder is pretty small so use a magnifying eyepiece to improve your ability to see proper focus. With the kind of magnification you get using a telescope, the moon's motion also becomes an issue. Use an equatorial mount that has a clock drive to reduce relative motion. The Moon's rate is slightly different than the earth's rotation rate but is close enough for short exposures. Hope this helps!
04/27/2005 01:53:32 PM · #6
lets see i would like to think of myself as a pretty well adept amiture since i have been building my own telescope for about 3 years now and taking pics. through my other for over 5years with 35mm.

it sounds to me like what u need is a good mount that is know as a tracking mount is u want to get big into it all it will lock your scope (assouming u have 1) on what ever object u set it to and it will alow u to use a LOW ISO and a longer shutter with out having any visibul motion..........

if u don't have a scope then i would strongly recomend u get 1 it is the best way to get past light polution but i still have to drive out past midnight with my (poor sleep deprived) mom or dad to get a good dark area......it is really tough to get big into if u want go to the libary and get/or just buy this book-"Astorphotography for the Amiture"

it is an invaluble book for every starter or even long timer at this also a book called-"Whats out tonight" that 1 is amazing he has accauratly prodicted till the year 2050 the corse of the sky and astrlogical events

that is all the help i can give for what it sounds like u want to do...what u are battling is what every1 battles.......development sky and light

_brando_

if u have any questions about scopes i can be reached by PM
and will get back to as soon as i get it.

also remember expence is a big thing u cant just expect to go out and shot with a 70-300mm lense and get a clear pick u need something with a vibration reduction and u need at least 500mm or over to get really close.......i'm going deep space huntiong as soon as the damn clouds here blow over and i will hopefuly have some shots of the orion nebula in my porfolio if u check later in the week

Message edited by author 2005-04-27 13:56:24.
04/27/2005 01:59:57 PM · #7
In addition to what's already been posted, I'd like to comment on vibration: it is the enemy!
Normally I'd strongly recommend using mirror lock-up, but unless you have the Hcked firmware, that is not available in teh 300D. You can prolly get good moon shots without it, but you'll have to make sure the mount is very solid.
You really don't have to worry about the motion of the moon in the frame if you are shooting at 1/125s or so, which is about right with that type of 'scope (I use an 8" f/10 scope as well).
Seeing conditions can also greatly affect your results. I've had evenings where I just could not get a sharp image to save my life, and the reason was atmospheric turbulence. It's worst when the moon is near the horizon, and is worse at lower elevations. Going to high elevations is not feasible for some of us, so we have to live with shooting when it's higher in the sky, and/or waitign for very stable atmospheric conditions.
Focusing is a major task, and the suggestion of a viewfinder magnifier is right on. It is very difficult to "nail" the focus, and if the temperature is changing or if the 'scope is not properly equilibrated to the outside temperature, the focus may drift.
Hope some of these thoughts help!
04/27/2005 02:00:30 PM · #8
Originally posted by cheekymunky:

How did you attach your camera to your Meade? I've read THESE GUYS make the best. I only have a ETX-90 so can really justify the expense. I took this handle to the eyepiece

I know its a bit lame! but you see the stripes (if you squint a bit!) with a FAT lens you could probably achieve the same shot.


unless u can interchang lenses u can put it right on your scope
but if u are inventive there is a way to creat a light tite adaptor out of a film canstor....i use to have the site but i don't think i have it any more since i just use my 35mms adaptor on my nikons mount
take to some toob stock with an inventive mind and u might get something
04/27/2005 02:02:31 PM · #9
Did you use prime focus or eyepiece projection?
The higher the magnification the harder to get a sharp shot.
I took this at prime focus on a 8" f6 1200mm telscope. Movement of the telescope is the main reason for soft images. To prevent this i shot on windless nights with remote shutter release on 10 second delay and also mirror lock-up. I think your main problem is your trying too high a magnification.
Sometimes less is more.


04/27/2005 02:04:00 PM · #10
Here is my first try at astrophotography using the 300D and a Celestron 500mm telescope...not sure the model of the scope. It is my neighbour's and I was experimenting, it is a daytime shot, but auto levels adjusted it to this.

It is not perfect, need more practice with exposure times and manual focussing. Any comments?

04/27/2005 02:10:05 PM · #11
Hi racer. For a higher magnification, single-shot image of the moon, your shot is really pretty good. As soon as you start zooming in close like that, atmospheric turbulence really gets to be a problem. The only halfway decent pictures I've gotten of the moon have been at lower magnifications. Aside from waiting for an excellent night of atmospheric seeing, what I've seen a lot of folks doing is using web-cams to take hundreds of images of a portion of the moon, and then use a stacking program to average them all together to get incredibly sharp, high magnification images. Of course that wouldn't be valid here ;)

There is an excellent forum over at cloudynights.com that discusses planetary, solar, and lunar imaging: Link

Message edited by author 2005-04-27 14:13:13.
04/27/2005 02:11:38 PM · #12
My test shot from a few weeks ago. Not very sharp, oversharpened and a cloud got a little in the way, but I was impressed with how much detail I could get with just my 300mm lens.



One thing I have learned from night shots, though is never to expect that you got a good, focused shot by what you see in the LCD screen. I have to take a bunch of shots, run the CF card up to the office (over the garage), and view them only to find out they're all crap and I have to make some adjustments and try again. Hit and miss. Fun though. :)

-Ken

ps: I love marbo's quarter moon and many of the other moon shots I've seen on the site.
04/27/2005 04:21:00 PM · #13
Is it possible to do the "mirror lock-up" with the Rebel 300D?

Originally posted by marbo:

Did you use prime focus or eyepiece projection?
The higher the magnification the harder to get a sharp shot.
I took this at prime focus on a 8" f6 1200mm telscope. Movement of the telescope is the main reason for soft images. To prevent this i shot on windless nights with remote shutter release on 10 second delay and also mirror lock-up. I think your main problem is your trying too high a magnification.
Sometimes less is more.

04/27/2005 04:26:02 PM · #14
Originally posted by racer:

of an object being about 380,000ft from the earth


It's even worse than that racer: it's 380,000 kilometers!
04/27/2005 05:15:27 PM · #15
From my experience, solo moon pics don't score well in challenges anyway. Here was my entry in "Parts".



In my experience, P&S cameras with eyepiece projection are MUCH easier to use, and get better focus. I have yet to be able to correctly focus my DRebel, and I've even tried a Hartman Mask.

-Chad
04/27/2005 05:21:32 PM · #16
For anyone wanting to try focusing with a Hartmann Mask, this is a cool template generator.

//billyard.ca/Hartmann.html

Here is an overview of what this mask does:

//www.astropix.com/HTML/I_ASTROP/I08/I0817/I0817.HTM

-Chad
04/27/2005 05:24:51 PM · #17
[quote=racer] Is it possible to do the "mirror lock-up" with the Rebel 300D?

Yes if you install the firmware hack.
04/27/2005 07:12:15 PM · #18
Waw. It is an very superbe photo. Impressive.

Originally posted by cpurser:

From my experience, solo moon pics don't score well in challenges anyway. Here was my entry in "Parts".



In my experience, P&S cameras with eyepiece projection are MUCH easier to use, and get better focus. I have yet to be able to correctly focus my DRebel, and I've even tried a Hartman Mask.

-Chad
04/27/2005 07:12:50 PM · #19
Thanks!

Originally posted by cheekymunky:

Hi,
Have a look at this: Exposure calculator
I used it a while ago, just to get the idea of what values to use then experimented a bit.

As for other astrophotography, i'm sure a google search will yeild a plethora of results. Jupiter & Saturn are easy to spot at the moment. I you need any ideas look at SKYMAPS, a really handy site.

Good luck dood!
04/27/2005 07:25:24 PM · #20
Thanks everyone for all those good tricks. I can't wait to go out and take other shots again.

04/27/2005 09:02:35 PM · #21
I don't wanna miss out. This is my first shot of the moon ever. I shot through my 80mm f6 refractor. Haven't had the camera on it since, but I liked the result.

04/27/2005 09:07:45 PM · #22
There was an earlier moon thread today too, find it here.
08/30/2006 03:20:34 PM · #23
This thread has a suitable title ... : )

At 10:41 PDT this Saturday (9/2/06) the European SMART-1 satellite is scheduled to crash into the Moon, hopefully producing a flash visible from Earth "through a small telescope" as they say ...

Details at this NASA site, and you may also be interested in the free Virtual Moon Atlas and its associated image collections.
08/30/2006 03:32:06 PM · #24
Forecast is pretty good for tonight. All my batteries are charged, the venerable Coolpix 4500 is up the task.

I'll post my historic photos tomorrow....
08/30/2006 03:33:42 PM · #25
Originally posted by strangeghost:

Forecast is pretty good for tonight. All my batteries are charged, the venerable Coolpix 4500 is up the task.

I'll post my historic photos tomorrow....

Today is only Wednesday ...
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