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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Backing up 44,444 photos
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12/15/2004 03:13:36 PM · #1
I decided it was time to make a master backup of all my photos, on to DVD. I normally backup my photos a bit at a time, when I have enough to fill a DVD. But DVDs can go bad and I thought it would be a good idea to have one collection of everything I have taken to date.

It turns out this is a LOT of photos 44,444 to be exact (neat how that number came out)

I am using Archive Creator, which I like, but it is not a fast process. I started yesterday at about noon it took close to 12 hours just to make the index page for all the photos.

It looks like I will finish getting all the DVDs (13 in all) burned by about noon today.

I would be interested in hearing what other people use to backup their photos and how long it takes when there are a lot of photos to backup.
12/15/2004 03:16:07 PM · #2
I burn a DVD/ CD for the photos as soon as they are downloaded from my camera and the chaff has been separated from the wheat. I have a 2nd 250GB Hard drive on my Mac that contains copies of the photos on my main drive.
12/15/2004 03:18:24 PM · #3
Networked second hard drive is what i do too.
12/15/2004 03:21:26 PM · #4
I burn two copies of all new shots to DVD every month or two. One copy stays by my desk, and the other goes into a fireproof media safe.
12/15/2004 03:23:18 PM · #5
I have a file server available which I synchronize my editing workstation to each night. This gives me a 24 hour near line backup with minimial time invested since it only syncs files with differences.

In addition, I have a DVD burner on the editign workstation which I use to master a few diferrent files:

(1) backup by year in triplicate. 1 set goes off site.
(2) backup by qtr / month triplicate. Interval depends on how active I am or how important the photos are. For the most part I depend on my fileserver as a primary safety net. Since it's quick and automagic.


12/15/2004 03:35:38 PM · #6
I have a central server w/ 250G of RAID storage, mapped as a local drive on my PC. My photos are downloaded onto that, then backed up to 3 redundant DVDs, stored in different locations, when work on those images is done.
12/15/2004 03:37:32 PM · #7
Second hard drive. I have one drive at home, one at work. Every hour, on the hour they syncronize using a program called Second Copy:

//www.centered.com/

Plus, I use ONLY Segate drives. I've never had one go bad.

Note that this does not prevent data loss due to corruption! If you (or a virus, or a toddler, or a malfunctioning PHP script) deletes the files in one location Second Copy will probobaly dutifly delete the files in the other location.
12/15/2004 03:39:29 PM · #8
Because of the ever-increasing storage demands for archiving photos (I've got over 130GB of photos currently on-line, well over 30 DVD's worth), I've decided that hard drives are the most cost-effective and fastest way to archive data.

Ideally, something like a Miglia MediaBank HS-R external hardware-RAID with three (or more) drive trays is the way to go. This connects via FireWire 800 to your PC or Mac (they also offer the HS-Ri internal version with ATA interface) and is much faster than transferring gigs and gigs of data over network-attached storage, doesn't require you to maintain and power Yet Another Computer as a server, etc. The HS-R transparently reads/writes all your data to two independent hard drives. Before you go to bed each night, you pop out one of the drives (you now have an "instant" backup of everything in a nice small package) and insert the third drive into the now-empty slot. The HS-R begins copying everything to the newly-inserted drive, transparently... even if you are still using the computer. You can now take the drive you just removed and put it in a "safe place" as a backup, until the next time you "swap drives" and (instantly) create your next backup on the ejected drive...

With more drive trays, you can come up with a more extensive backup procedure. With a 4th drive, you could take one of the drives to an off-site location for extra security. For example, every Monday, you could bring it to work and lock it in your desk. You just bring home the "old" one that was previously at your work and put it in the rotation for "nightly backups".

With the cost of ultra-high capacity drives gettting cheaper and cheaper (i.e., Maxtor 300GB drives for $160), this seems to me, at least, the best compromise between convenience, reliability, efficiency, etc. You never have to worry about "doing backups", you just swap drives, which takes seconds. And being able to access photos without having to insert DVD after DVD is terrific!

Message edited by author 2004-12-15 17:36:04.
12/15/2004 03:43:03 PM · #9
Yes, good point Welcher. The drive needs to be in a file server. You should not be using your workstations to store files. You can build a home file server for under $1k. Store all files (photos, financial records, MP3s, etc.) all this file server. Do not store any files on your workstations, kid's computers, laptops, etc.

This serves two purposes:

1) You only have one thing to backup. Backup up everything on the file server (the data drive, not the OS drive), and nothing on the other computers.

2) If one of the other computers dies or gets replaced you don't lose any data. Just reinstall the OS and apps and keep working.

Some people backup their OS too, but I find it doesn't take to long to reinstall so why bother. If you do some reasearch, you'll see the file server doesn't even need to run an OS - certainly not Windows in most cases but I'm not going to get into that on a Photography board.
12/15/2004 03:51:58 PM · #10
How fast would a USB 2 external Harddrive be compared to burning DVD's?
How much data can I write away in half an hour to a standard HD via USB 2?

I create huge 600dpi 16 bit scans (uncompressed TIFF and PSD) and need to sent them to an editor and publisher once in a while. Instead of burning several discs it might be better to use an external harddrive and drop it off at him to pick it up a few hours later or just wait till it is finished?
12/15/2004 04:19:51 PM · #11
I agree that maintaining a fileserver probably isn't the right approach for a basic photography enthusiast who isn't otherwise skilled in system administration. But, if you're a pro, or a serious enthusiast, I don't think that maintaining a file server is a bad idea. It's fast to recover from, and can be fully automated. It's not much more $$ than buying a hot new firewire appliance. I can also review images from either my laptop, editing workstation, or wife's laptop because they are central instead of distributed.

Regarding the speed, I agree that DAS (direct attach storage) via SCSI/firewire/USB2 is faster than 10/100 ethernet, but once you hit the now affordable 1G network the difference is negligable on all but the biggest data sets. But the real question for me is, why does speed matter? My editing workstation backs up to the fileserver nightly (over 10mb ethernet) while I'm asleep. That gives it 8 hours to complete it's duties before I care. The only time I care is when a manual process is used - like swapping discs as I burn them.

My fileserver is an old 400mhz system loaded up with disks which chugs away in my basement. The system was free and the disks are 40gb each - dirt cheap on eBay. It does double duty as a local mail server, and caching proxy / DNS which smooths out my internet usage. All in all it's been a cheap solution that works like a dream.


12/15/2004 04:54:41 PM · #12
I have an exteral (firewire/usb2)drive that I back up to. You can make or buy a 160gb portable drive for $140 to $160 Canadian and probally much cheaper in the US. I have two of these one ffor my data from programs and the other for photos. The great thing about protable drives is that you can bring your data with you to work or anyother computer.

Message edited by author 2004-12-15 16:58:19.
12/15/2004 05:21:06 PM · #13
Originally posted by cghubbell:


My fileserver is an old 400mhz system loaded up with disks which chugs away in my basement. The system was free and the disks are 40gb each - dirt cheap on eBay. It does double duty as a local mail server, and caching proxy / DNS which smooths out my internet usage. All in all it's been a cheap solution that works like a dream.


What OS is it running? Linux?

Chad
12/15/2004 05:45:08 PM · #14
Originally posted by cghubbell:

I agree that maintaining a fileserver probably isn't the right approach for a basic photography enthusiast
<snip>
I don't think that maintaining a file server is a bad idea.


Are you responding to my post? Maybe I mispoke. Maintaining a fileserver is easy, and everyone even slightly serious about their data should have one. I would venture a guess that includes 90% of the people here.

12/15/2004 06:02:48 PM · #15
Originally posted by tbdean:

Maintaining a fileserver is easy, and everyone even slightly serious about their data should have one. I would venture a guess that includes 90% of the people here.

I disagree about a fileserver. Maintaining another computer, keeping it up to date with patches, etc. is overly complex for the vast majority of users, and is relatively expensive in terms of energy costs. If you assume that an "extra PC" consumes 200 watts of energy (a reasonable estimate with all the electronics, fans and multiple hard drives spinning), at $0.10 a kilowatt/hour, that is over $14/month in electricity. Many of today's high-end PC's consume much more than that, with PC power supplies in the 500+ watt range becoming more and more common for the "serious enthusiast".

The solution I mentioned earlier is not only easier to set up and requires zero administration, but a copy of all your data is always "instantly" available as a backup (even in a minimal configuration of two drives). And if you have money for additional drives, it allows significantly more flexibility for various backup strategies, including off-site. In addition, because it is a true RAID solution, if one of the two active drives does fail (and being mechanical drives, hard drives do eventually fail), there is no downtime. You just replace the failed drive and you're done. No restoring, no reloading. Just insert new drive and continue working.

I run a Linux-based firewall, web server, mail server, Samba server, etc. at my house, and I'd still prefer the Miglia-based hardware RAID solution (mostly because of how slow network access is. When I go browsing raw files, I don't want to have to wait forever for Capture One or Bibble to pull in each raw file as it generates previews.)

Message edited by author 2004-12-15 18:10:25.
12/15/2004 06:28:41 PM · #16
I am moving towards EddyG's solution -- at about $0.50/GB the cost is about the same as for archival-quality CD-R's, and require no device or software or anything, plus you don't have to change disks to burn tons of files. If you have a FireWire or USB drive formatted in FAT32 you can even move it between Mac and Windows machines.
12/15/2004 06:42:21 PM · #17
Originally posted by scalvert:

I burn two copies of all new shots to DVD every month or two. One copy stays by my desk, and the other goes into a fireproof media safe.


My wife kept some valuable media like this in a fireproof safe before we met. When her house burned down, the safe came out fine, but everything inside of it was incinerated. Your safe might be better, but just wanted to pass along that warning.

And just so I don't hijack the thread, I keep all images on an external hard drive that backs up twice a day and I burn all of my images onto CD each time I have about 700MB worth. I'm making an archive right now of all of those onto DVD, so I should be fine as long as my wife doesn't burn down this house too. ;-)
12/15/2004 06:43:39 PM · #18
And the other thing that people forget ... where so you keep those back-ups? In the house? What about fires, or burglaries, or flood damage, etc.?

My personal strategy is to have a USB2 hard drive caddy, and two drives - one here that is regularly backed up, and another that lives in the Yorkshire house that is swapped with the other every now and again. I shouldn't ever be more than about a month out of date is the worst happened.

Ed
12/15/2004 07:15:47 PM · #19
Originally posted by PhilipDyer:

My wife kept some valuable media like this in a fireproof safe before we met. When her house burned down, the safe came out fine, but everything inside of it was incinerated. Your safe might be better, but just wanted to pass along that warning.


Fireproof safes, Data Storage Safes, etc aren't really fireproof as the average person thinks of the term. They are more like fire resistant. They are only designed to hold the inside temperature below a set point for a certain amount of time. Allow the safe to sit in a fire for long enough and the contents will be damaged.

For example standard fireproof safes will hold the internal temp below 350° and data storage safes below 125°, usually for 1-3 hours. After that you can expect the contents to be lost.
12/15/2004 07:17:51 PM · #20
If you don't have a safe, you cuodl always keep them in the refridgerator :D

We have a deposit box at the bank for stuff...and at one point I kept an external hard drive backup of my files on my body at all times...
12/15/2004 10:29:16 PM · #21
I stream all my bits to the great beyond via a giant radio transmitter powered by potatoes. When the little green men come with my anal probe, I'll be asking them if they've got my damn backups.

My images are crucial enough that I can't just depend on yet-to-be-proven-existent extra terrestrials, so I also use nanites to carve my bits into stone and bury them in toxic waste sites, where I'm sure no one will try to steal them. Retrieval is still an issue, but it is not an insoluable problem.

Being a practical thinker and just generally sensible, I'm concerned the aliens might never come and the earth will be torn asunder, so I have genetically engineered several species of space-faring birds with my images (to date) encoded in their genome. I am working on a solution to the lossy aspect of the backup scheme as generations of my creations will slowly mutate away from their purpose.
12/15/2004 11:25:04 PM · #22
Originally posted by dwoolridge:

... I have genetically engineered several species of space-faring birds with my images (to date) encoded in their genome. I am working on a solution to the lossy aspect of the backup scheme as generations of my creations will slowly mutate away from their purpose.

LOL -- you think you jest, but they have already made "processors" on the molecular scale ... flash storage should be simpler yet. I don't know about the mutation problems -- hopefully it will just introduce a little random noise you can NeatImage away, and not corrupt the header and make it impossible to open at all ...

Actually, if you copy your files via a wireless network, in theory the waveform describing those bits is well on its way to the edge of the universe ...

Message edited by author 2004-12-15 23:28:25.
12/15/2004 11:53:31 PM · #23
dwoolridge and generalE thanks for bedtime humor. I wonder what fractal type data backup dreams I'll be having tonight... regardless of the methods, always backup. How many have a bank depostit box full of film negatives as I ?
12/16/2004 12:43:28 AM · #24
Originally posted by dwoolridge:

I stream all my bits to the great beyond via a giant radio transmitter powered by potatoes. When the little green men come with my anal probe, I'll be asking them if they've got my damn backups.


You too?

Geez, and I thought I was the only one.

As for me, I copy the whole gambit to another HD inside my box as a giant tarball. Then once it gets large enuf I burn it out to DVD. Not too thrilled w/ the solution, but it seems to work for the time being. I think some time in the near future I might invest in a Lacie 1TB external drive set and use it as anothe redundantly redundant storage location. If anything it has serious geek points behind it ;)
12/16/2004 02:15:08 AM · #25
I am dumbfounded by all the technical jargon, but I'm glad this came up. Currently I back up on CDRW which is a pain in the butt because of their low capacity. I'm thinking of buying a DVD-R. I also thought about buying an external HD but I know that I will eventually outgrow it and need something other form of back up. Besides, you can't exactly send the Copyright office a hard drive. For those reasons, I think a DVDR is the way to go for me. Oh, and I don't know jack about system maintenance or whatever else would be required for all those other solutions given.

June
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