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02/22/2017 11:30:10 AM · #26
Originally posted by the_rkp:

I hope no one else feels offended by my opinion, but maybe if someone get offended when someone else express politely his thought, maybe, a forum is not the right place for him. ;-)
...


Well, to your point: How do you determine whether someone has, or has not, used techniques available in the Extended Editing Ruleset? What are your deciding criteria?

Message edited by author 2017-02-22 11:40:40.
02/22/2017 11:42:35 AM · #27
It's a bit of a voting quandary, isn't it? If someone is inclined to expect and reward full-tilt, obvious fantasy creations in the EXFS, well that's an acceptable voting preference, surely? At the same time, if someone is inclined to vote DOWN images that don't *seem* to use the full ruleset, that's a bit sketchier because, as Richard points out, if it's well done how can you tell? So, personally, I'd encourage people to reward excellent, resonant images regardless of perceived editing embellishment whilst at the same time reserving their very highest scores for the excellent "fantasy" images, if that's their inclination.

Personally, I ignore the rulesets when voting, basically, and just choose the images that work best for me in any challenge.
02/22/2017 11:50:42 AM · #28
Originally posted by Lydia:

Should an image straight from the camera be DNMC in a Standard Editing challenge?

I don't think so.

Neither do I think that a Standard Editing image in an Extended Editing challenge is DNMC.

The rules allow for Standard editing, but that doesn't mean we have to somehow edit our image just to make it not be a Minimal Editing image.

Same for Extended and Standard, IN MY OPINION.


Lydia, I fully agree with you, in fact my observation is not about all the challenges with "Extended" ruleset, it is just about the EFS. As already said, my thought derive from the fact that the word "Extended" is in the name of the contest and this seems to me a clear instruction

Originally posted by hahn23:


Well, to your point: How do you determine whether someone has, or has not, used techniques available in the Extended Editing Ruleset? What is your deciding criteria?

Again, as I told before, there is no way to be sure about it, my "deciding criteria2" is how much a picture seems realistic ;-)
02/22/2017 12:05:06 PM · #29
Originally posted by the_rkp:

I hope no one else feels offended by my opinion, but maybe if someone get offended when someone else express politely his thought, maybe, a forum is not the right place for him. ;-)

[quote=nam]
. . .


By "no one else" I assume you mean me since the quote you chose to include is from my response?
I was far from offended by your opinion and didn't mean to imply that you were less than polite but rather to "express politely [my] thought". Apparently, though I spent some time phrasing things, I did not succeed. My apologies. As Bear_Music said, for me "extended" refers to a rule set, not a theme. We are supposed to ignore rule sets when we vote. So I do.

Edited to add: I was writing this as you posted your last response. So maybe we need to come up with another name for the second Free Study.

Message edited by author 2017-02-22 12:07:09.
02/22/2017 12:09:14 PM · #30
Originally posted by nam:



By "no one else" I assume you mean me since the quote you chose to include is from my response?
I was far from offended by your opinion and didn't mean to imply that you were less than polite but rather to "express politely [my] thought". Apparently, though I spent some time phrasing things, I did not succeed. My apologies. As Bear_Music said, for me "extended" refers to a rule set, not a theme. We are supposed to ignore rule sets when we vote. So I do.


Sorry nam, I forgot to add the quote to the hahn23 sentence "Wow, I think you have insulted a lot of people". Sorry, I didn't mean you :)

Anyway, I got your and Bear point, and usually I do the same. ;-)
02/22/2017 12:48:26 PM · #31
Originally posted by the_rkp:

. . . Sorry, I didn't mean you :) . . .


Gotcha. No problem. Thanks.
02/22/2017 01:35:07 PM · #32
Originally posted by nam:

So maybe we need to come up with another name for the second Free Study.


Maybe "Free Study" and "Freer Study" :-)

With no offense taken or offered, here's my opinion: I have entered the EXFS with both standard and extended rules sets applied and don't see "Extended" in the title being a call for techniques that MAY be used to become techniques that MUST be used. In fact I think the EXFS is the purest free study we offer at DPC. Almost anything goes in the process of creating a compelling image. If I can (or think I can) create a compelling image in ANY manner from SOOC to Extended Ruleset, it should be welcome in the EXFS. Because the options for creating a compelling photo have been "extended" without requiring their use.

This is true in any challenge under the extended ruleset. If members would like a challenge that requires the use of extended rules, then make it a flagged extended ruleset requiring techniques beyond the standard ruleset. Then the validation process would include proving it wasn't "standard."

I appreciate the opportunity to share my opinion in this forum, but I'm not advocating a change. If a clarification were to be made that the intent of EXFS is indeed to require extended ruleset techniques, then so be it. I disagree, but would happily limit my entries to comply.
02/22/2017 01:54:04 PM · #33
@ wbanning: very nice summary. I'm pretty sure the "extended features" of the Extended rule set are listed as "You May" and not as "You Must" ...

As Bear_Music noted, there's nothing wrong with giving higher scores to images which "obviously" make use of the extended rules, but it is not reasonable (to me) to "penalize" (especially as DNMC) an image in which such use may not be apparent. The voting rules require that you vote an image strictly on its quality, assuming the applicable editing rules have been followed, and DNMC is not a disqualifying condition (unless flagged).

Message edited by author 2017-02-22 13:55:41.
02/22/2017 02:36:52 PM · #34
Originally posted by GeneralE:

@ wbanning: very nice summary. I'm pretty sure the "extended features" of the Extended rule set are listed as "You May" and not as "You Must" ...

As Bear_Music noted, there's nothing wrong with giving higher scores to images which "obviously" make use of the extended rules, but it is not reasonable (to me) to "penalize" (especially as DNMC) an image in which such use may not be apparent. The voting rules require that you vote an image strictly on its quality, assuming the applicable editing rules have been followed, and DNMC is not a disqualifying condition (unless flagged).


Well there is this under the 'You Should' category. :-)
"consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly"
02/22/2017 02:41:34 PM · #35
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

@ wbanning: very nice summary. I'm pretty sure the "extended features" of the Extended rule set are listed as "You May" and not as "You Must" ...

As Bear_Music noted, there's nothing wrong with giving higher scores to images which "obviously" make use of the extended rules, but it is not reasonable (to me) to "penalize" (especially as DNMC) an image in which such use may not be apparent. The voting rules require that you vote an image strictly on its quality, assuming the applicable editing rules have been followed, and DNMC is not a disqualifying condition (unless flagged).


Well there is this under the 'You Should' category. :-)
"consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly"

I noted that in the first line of the second paragraph. I supposed I could have said "... its quality/qualities" in the second sentence, but it seemed clumsy phrasing and probably unnecessary to make the meaning clear.
02/22/2017 03:06:49 PM · #36
Suppose we renamed the current "Free Study" to be called "Standard Free Study"?

That would solve the problem, right?
02/22/2017 03:08:15 PM · #37
I read the thread and have no opinion except concerning voting: IMO, vote on the result, not the method. The method is either legal or illegal and is up to the SC to determine, so vote as if it is legal or skip it. Editing rules are maximum allowable rules, not requirements. Aside from that, I like having both FS available, regardless of whether people take advantage of the extended editing or not. Many obviously don't need to. The results will always reflect the collective tastes of that set of voters at that moment in time. Take that for what it's worth.
02/22/2017 03:28:32 PM · #38
Originally posted by Lydia:

Suppose we renamed the current "Free Study" to be called "Standard Free Study"?

That would solve the problem, right?

Until we decide to run one under Minimal Rules.

(This is where I'm supposed to run away and hide, right?)
02/22/2017 03:29:27 PM · #39
"minimal rules" is an oxymoron.
02/22/2017 03:31:52 PM · #40
OK, maybe we'll rename that one Maximum Rules ...



Message edited by author 2017-02-22 15:33:00.
02/22/2017 03:33:53 PM · #41
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

"minimal rules" is an oxymoron.

Well, it's not CALLED "minimal rules", it's called "Minimal Editing". And we have "Standard Editing" and we have "Extended Editing".
02/22/2017 04:55:30 PM · #42
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

@ wbanning: very nice summary. I'm pretty sure the "extended features" of the Extended rule set are listed as "You May" and not as "You Must" ...

As Bear_Music noted, there's nothing wrong with giving higher scores to images which "obviously" make use of the extended rules, but it is not reasonable (to me) to "penalize" (especially as DNMC) an image in which such use may not be apparent. The voting rules require that you vote an image strictly on its quality, assuming the applicable editing rules have been followed, and DNMC is not a disqualifying condition (unless flagged).


Well there is this under the 'You Should' category. :-)
"consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly"

I noted that in the first line of the second paragraph. I supposed I could have said "... its quality/qualities" in the second sentence, but it seemed clumsy phrasing and probably unnecessary to make the meaning clear.

Sorry Paul, still don't see it. However, I simply pulled the quote directly from the Rules page - that's usually safer than para-phrasing. No biggee.
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