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11/03/2016 11:51:27 PM · #51 |
I would also like more minimal. it saves me a lot of my time :)
I personally don't really like the extended ones. I am not against, just not my style.
Minimal makes you think before you press the button and do improve a lot ones skills. You do get to pay more attention to composition, framing, various elements regardless if you shoot dSLR or mobile phone.
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11/04/2016 07:52:31 AM · #52 |
| every challenge can be minimal editing for anyone. why don't people here understand that? |
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11/04/2016 07:56:38 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by Mike:
every challenge can be minimal editing for anyone. why don't people here understand that? |
Because people understand that that is not the point.
I mean, by that reasoning DPC should do away with rulesets altogether and people can just enter their photos with as much or as little processing as they like. Part of the appeal of DPC is that everyone enters challenges within certain restricted rulesets and it's interesting to see how others do that.
Message edited by author 2016-11-04 08:03:22. |
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11/04/2016 08:24:41 AM · #54 |
It is becoming apparant that those who decide what happens here must prefer extended editing, i understand that and accept that people have differing preferences when it comes to editing and more importantly the results that they produce. For me looking at the results of the latest extended challenge is a truly horrible experience but for those who like none photographic looking images it must be an entirely different experience. It is seems normal and fair that we should have an equal amount of minimal and extended so as to please all the tastes we have, I would even go as far as to say that the increasing amount of extended challenges that has taken place recently Is in part responsible for the decreasing amount of participation, well it certainly works that way for me.
Message edited by author 2016-11-04 08:26:10. |
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11/04/2016 08:37:53 AM · #55 |
It is what it is, people. You get out of it what you put into it.
I don't like the extended editing challenges. I suck at that type of photoshopping. But I enter them anyway. I've found in trying to solve my main extended editing difficulties, I've advanced my regular editing significantly. (though I can't say the same with the extended editing!)
Minimal frustrates me, because I get a photo that I can make significantly better (which means, make it how I wanted to make it in the first place, if my lighting skills were perfect). But I learn when I do it, even though it really bugs me.
My advanced editing (standard, flaky, whatever we call the middle set these days) are completely different than when I started. I was annoyed when people did a lot of editing. I thought a photograph was a photograph. Sure, change the contrast/brightness. Yup, take down or up the saturation. But to take a photo and make it look different because of the burning, dodging, sharpening, filters, etc., what's the point? It's not photography anymore. (Well, that's what I thought when I started).
But I've found my happy place. I see a photo when I take it. I see the object in front of me, but I also see how I want it to end up. I see the processing and the lighting.
I try to get the lighting right. But I still fail many times. But because of the minimal editing challenges, I'm closer than I used to be. I have to on those times. So I learn.
Find your happy place. If you decide you're only shooting for that, that's your option.
But experiencing it all helps you discover things you need to know for your happy place. I've been going at this for so many years, and I'm still learning. Not every time. But many times when I least expect it.
I do wish that the site was mostly standard, and that the number of expert and minimal were evened out. But that's my dream happy place. I'm not going to miss out just because things are perfect.
When I'm finally perfect, then I'll worry about what is and isn't perfect.
Do and enjoy! (or do and bitch and moan :) But do. :)
Message edited by author 2016-11-04 08:38:35. |
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11/04/2016 10:13:00 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by Mike:
every challenge can be minimal editing for anyone. why don't people here understand that? |
I don't know. I think they don't want to be forced to compete with (as they see it) people whose main skill is photochopping--not photography.
I think it's more about "real photography." People seem to think that any editing spoils the original & slows them down. That the point of photography is to take the photograph. Period. People seem to feel that post-processing is for covering up for a lack of skill in operating the camera. That photography is about the camera. Period. That a photograph should accurately document reality, even if the reality in front of the camera is totally set up.
I don't agree with any of this, but it's what I've read in the forums over the years. |
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11/04/2016 10:39:51 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Mike:
every challenge can be minimal editing for anyone. why don't people here understand that? |
I don't know. I think they don't want to be forced to compete with (as they see it) people whose main skill is photochopping--not photography.
I think it's more about "real photography." People seem to think that any editing spoils the original & slows them down. That the point of photography is to take the photograph. Period. People seem to feel that post-processing is for covering up for a lack of skill in operating the camera. That photography is about the camera. Period. That a photograph should accurately document reality, even if the reality in front of the camera is totally set up.
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precisely, they are to worried about how their photographs match up to others, its the same reason people don't like getting critical comments.
photography is a way you let others how you see the world, if its edited or not, so be it.
the big push to get more lax editing rules is because those of us that liked or needed to do more editing to share our images were restricted from doing so, while the minimal lovers always had the ability to share, they just choose to feel inferior about their choice. they told us that its not photography any more, its digital art. well F***-you. Quit projecting your lack of self esteem onto others.
expert isn't better (especially here) its just different. there isn't anything wrong with different unless you don't like being different. IMO, we need more different in photography.
I think unless you are documenting something, pictures need some kind of personalization from the photographer, otherwise what's the point of being a photographer.
Message edited by author 2016-11-04 10:42:40. |
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11/04/2016 11:32:25 AM · #58 |
Wow  Mike! What's wrong with you? I like all my comments, I don't really care about how my pics compare with the others, yet I like minimal.
Just balance them.
And your comment came close to an insult... |
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11/04/2016 12:00:51 PM · #59 |
Golf's a lot like DPC photography, in a way :-) Why do I say that? Well, in golf we have a constantly-expanding technological capability. We have clubs that are easier to hit, balls that go further, all that sort of stuff. And we have a governing body that has rules, and local bodies that can create local rules. We have most golfers just playing (like most photographers just photograph) and we have a core group of golfers that compete. Amongst the ones that compete, well, they compete under a "common ruleset" that all golfers use, as modified by a competition-specific ruleset that governs the specific competition. So, for one example, there are folks that LIKE to challenge themselves by playing with old-school, wooden-shafted clubs and old-school balls, and there are competitions for those people.
And, even MORE to the point, whilst there are a few people who tend to mouth off and say "my golf is more "real" golf than your golf, closer to the roots of the game", that's a small percentage. Most of us don't care. We just find the level that works for us and tend to concentrate our efforts there. I'm not an especially good golfer; I'm good at some parts of the game and pretty bad at other parts. I just grin and bear it. I tend to play with people like me, and we make teams and compete against others like us, and we all have a good time, except when every now and then we get mad at ourselves and say a bad word. And every now and then we'll all, individually, go somewhere out of our comfort zone to compete, usually not very successfully, just because...
So it's understandable that the "minimal people" want to be better-represented in the challenges. We HAVE tended to do a disproportionate number of Extended Editing challenges recently. We intend to fix that. There's a Minimal challenge up now. We'll run them more often. But let's stop this business of putting down, or attributing motivations to, the folks who DO advocate for one ruleset or the other, please. |
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11/04/2016 12:25:50 PM · #60 |
| Personally, I like Minimal and Extended challenges but for different reasons. I like messing about and adding textures getting heavily into the processing side of things and creating something. I also like being restricted to Minimal and walking around catching light and letting things happen. Two different approaches and I get different things out of them. I think there should just be an equal balance of Minimal/Extended to fit around the Standard challenges. Makes sense to me. |
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11/04/2016 12:46:40 PM · #61 |
| Thanks for the minimal rule set free study. I believe this is a first. For those inclined, you could enter three free studies in November using three different rule sets. A chance to show off you versatility. Have fun! |
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11/04/2016 12:49:25 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by rooum:
Personally, I like Minimal and Extended challenges but for different reasons. I like messing about and adding textures getting heavily into the processing side of things and creating something. I also like being restricted to Minimal and walking around catching light and letting things happen. Two different approaches and I get different things out of them. I think there should just be an equal balance of Minimal/Extended to fit around the Standard challenges. Makes sense to me. |
thank you. |
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11/04/2016 12:52:16 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by rooum:
Personally, I like Minimal and Extended challenges but for different reasons. I like messing about and adding textures getting heavily into the processing side of things and creating something. I also like being restricted to Minimal and walking around catching light and letting things happen. Two different approaches and I get different things out of them. I think there should just be an equal balance of Minimal/Extended to fit around the Standard challenges. Makes sense to me. |
Bingo. I think that describes my feelings too. |
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11/04/2016 01:14:57 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Tiberius:
Wow Mike! What's wrong with you? I like all my comments, I don't really care about how my pics compare with the others, yet I like minimal.
Just balance them.
And your comment came close to an insult... |
And he used a naughty word. |
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11/04/2016 01:28:29 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Tiny:
Originally posted by Tiberius:
Wow Mike! What's wrong with you? I like all my comments, I don't really care about how my pics compare with the others, yet I like minimal.
Just balance them.
And your comment came close to an insult... |
And he used a naughty word. |
fie, fie on 't. |
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11/04/2016 02:29:07 PM · #66 |
I think it's great we are having a minimal FS, it's also great we have extended FSs, let us keep this equality.
Like many established and renowned photographic etstablishments I am guilty of thinking that over processing a photo just kills the photo and makes it non photogenic in nature, the instant is transformed, distorted and made to look like what one would have wanted to capture but didn't. The golf analogy that I read above just doesn't work, the hole is a moment combined with a place, that can't be had with a fancy club used afterwards.
Message edited by author 2016-11-04 14:31:39. |
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11/04/2016 02:41:07 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by jagar:
I think it's great we are having a minimal FS, it's also great we have extended FSs, let us keep this equality. |
Please everyone bear in mind this is NOT a "Minimal Free Study" in one significant sense; it's a 2-week submission period, not a 1-month submission period. Just in case anyone hadn't noticed... |
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11/04/2016 02:43:31 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by jagar:
I think it's great we are having a minimal FS, it's also great we have extended FSs, let us keep this equality. |
Please everyone bear in mind this is NOT a "Minimal Free Study" in one significant sense; it's a 2-week submission period, not a 1-month submission period. Just in case anyone hadn't noticed... |
You mean like me, sorry. |
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11/04/2016 03:16:56 PM · #69 |
| To all who love the minimal challenges - why not get the very best shot you can out of your camera, then if it is not good enough to compete do a little editing. You are still challenging yourself to get the settings right, but are not limiting the rest of us. You will not need to spend a lot of time editing, so it will not be time intensive. There is never (that I can think of) a time in the real world that you would not be able to do a little editing. |
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11/04/2016 04:01:46 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Elaine:
To all who love the minimal challenges - why not get the very best shot you can out of your camera, then if it is not good enough to compete do a little editing. You are still challenging yourself to get the settings right, but are not limiting the rest of us. You will not need to spend a lot of time editing, so it will not be time intensive. There is never (that I can think of) a time in the real world that you would not be able to do a little editing. |
The point is not the competing, but the exercise, the companioning exercise, the striving for the possible within limits. Also in fact we know that, like the making of many books, the fiddling of many fiddles has no end. And I suspect that most people, minimalists and non, DO try to get "the very best shot" out of our cameras. ALL THE TIME. And I dare also to suspect that most of us, when we do post process, try to achieve the very best. Post processing is not to be sneezed at. |
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11/04/2016 09:34:02 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by jagar:
I still don't understand why we have an expert free study and not a minimal, both would we good but having one without the other isnt really fair on those who are more minimal in their approach to photography. |
so we could do these alternately. One fortnight expert next foertnight minimal. Solved |
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11/04/2016 11:14:02 PM · #72 |
The thing of it is, in the monthly Free Studies the "rationale", or the "gestalt", is that as the 4 weeks we you cull our work for stuff that we like that didn't mesh with any challenges, and then we polish that up and put it in. Most of us, I think, don't usually go out "shooting for" the Free Studies. But, basically, shooting Minimal is a conscious exercise. We have to plan for it and execute it. It's not just a matter of shooting RAW+JPG, either; the JPG parameters need tweaking in-camera, where we'd normally do that in RAW. So it gets sort of obtrusive, it makes the shooting process less seamless. At least for me. And when you consider that I've got like 30 years of experience getting color transparencies right in-camera to draw on, well... I'm sure I'm not the only one...
I guess my point is that kind of by definition Free Studies are there to make happier the people who want to be able to mine their monthly (or yearly) archives for pegs that never happened to fit in the challenge holes. That doesn't seem to be a natural match for Minimal editing, though this (of course) is just my personal opinion. On the other hand, It seems reasonable to have a "no topic" Minimal challenge every so often, with the new 2-week submission period, and we've got our first one of those right now/ Acceptable compromise? |
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11/05/2016 12:01:23 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
. . . in-camera to draw on, well... I'm sure I'm not the only one...
I guess my point is that kind of by definition Free Studies are there to make happier the people who want to be able to mine their monthly (or yearly) archives for pegs that never happened to fit in the challenge holes. That doesn't seem to be a natural match for Minimal editing, though this (of course) is just my personal opinion. On the other hand, It seems reasonable to have a "no topic" Minimal challenge every so often, with the new 2-week submission period, and we've got our first one of those right now/ Acceptable compromise? |
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11/05/2016 10:39:12 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by RamblinR:
Originally posted by jagar:
I still don't understand why we have an expert free study and not a minimal, both would we good but having one without the other isnt really fair on those who are more minimal in their approach to photography. |
so we could do these alternately. One fortnight expert next foertnight minimal. Solved |
That sounds fair too. Either way.
BTW, I don't see a November FS on the board. |
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11/06/2016 02:21:37 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
...
BTW, I don't see a November FS on the board. |
Not sure about yesterday, but there is one today! |
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