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10/15/2014 03:43:17 AM · #1 |
I have received a very nice birthday present today of a deer rutting safari this weekend.
I was thinking of hiring a lens for the occasion as the longest I have is 85mm.
This lens is quite reasonably priced to hire.
Canon EF 300mm f/4 L IS USM
I have a Canon 70D. Do you think this would be sufficient for the job - not sure how close we will get to the deer - guess it it depends where they are on the day.
Would I need to use a tripod with a lens like this or can it be used hand held?
Any advice much appreciated - I have not hired a lens or used a big lens like this before. |
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10/15/2014 04:26:37 AM · #2 |
I use a 400mm lens on my nikon sometimes, they do weigh a bit, but hand held shooting is the way to go, the tripod will trip you up. A mono pod will be better but I still would shoot hand held, I used to hunt with rifles before, and use the same principle with the lens, tuck your elbow into your midriff to steady the lens, if you can get a variable length lens, it would be more helpful than a fixed length lens. Do not wear any kind of after shave or deodorant, stay up wind, and you can get pretty close, when they are rutting, they don't care much about what goes on around them, don't get too close because they can get very worked up, and you cannot out run them. Hope you have a fantastic time, and try to keep calm.....which is hard when you are that close, you can hear your heart beat like a drum. If you have a silent mode on your camera use it....
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10/15/2014 04:32:43 AM · #3 |
Private message me if you want some tips on finding them,.......
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10/15/2014 04:42:32 AM · #4 |
300mm on a APS-C is 450mm in real, quite good for deerhunting I guess. And with f/4 you should be able to get good shutter speeds. The lens is relatively light and with fast shutter speed handheld should be possible. Only small disadvantage might be the fixed focus length, will depend on how close you can come. If possible you should have a second camera with your 85mm at hand.
I myself use a 150-500mm and that one is much heavier, but when shooting wildlife I have to work handheld as well as deer normally don't wait until I got my tripod and camera ready (I think I should have a single-leg tripod for these occasions). And to be honest, when shooting wildlife I use it on max focus most of the time, therefore I think your 300mm fixed focus length will do.
Have a lot of fun Paul. and good shooting! |
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10/15/2014 05:46:05 AM · #5 |
A 400mm lens will produce better results. The apparent magnification from a cropped sensor, APS-C sensor, may lead you to feel you will be okay with less focal length. Someone along the line will tell you that 300mm x 1.6 conversion factor = 480mm (35mm equivalent). It is true from a reduced field of view standpoint. However, all lenses of the same focal length give images of the same size at any given subject distance. The cropped sensor captures a more cropped image.
Of course, if you are very close to the deer herd, the 300mm lens may provide just the right apparent magnification to compose the scene. If you are distant from the herd, you will always long for more lens reach. This fact causes some wildlife photographers to try to "sneak" up on their subjects. This usually results in a lot of images of tails heading north.
Your camera's 7 fps is good. Recommend trying some shot bursts to encompass good poses or behavior. Although, my best wildife shots are almost always from a single, patient, calm, composed shutter release. I always use a tripod. I always use a shutter release cable. It depends on your available light. If you are using the 300mm on a 70D, the rule of thumb would be 1/500s or faster to attain satisfactory results in a "handheld" mode. You always have the option of increasing the ISO speed to achieve a faster shutter speed. Even with modern cameras, the electronic noise will increase with increased ISO. But, your starting point might be ISO 400 and you'll be fine. If you need to bump up ISO, you should be okay up to about ISO 3200 with the noise tradeoff.
Your camera has a 19 point AF system. For wildlife shots, you will want to use one point or maybe a small cluster of center points. Lock in focus (press shutter release button down half way) on the eye or face or antlers you want to be most sharp. Most of the time you will want to have your aperture wide open. I'd be shooting in aperture mode. You may want to stop down slightly to increase the DOF. But, in general, a wide open aperture will give you the best bokeh and allow the most light to fall on the sensor,
You have 95% of your sensor coverage through your viewfinder. Just something to keep in mind. The images captured will be slightly less tightly cropped than what you saw through your viewfinder. |
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10/15/2014 06:30:24 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Deve:
I use a 400mm lens on my nikon sometimes, they do weigh a bit, but hand held shooting is the way to go, the tripod will trip you up. A mono pod will be better but I still would shoot hand held, I used to hunt with rifles before, and use the same principle with the lens, tuck your elbow into your midriff to steady the lens, if you can get a variable length lens, it would be more helpful than a fixed length lens. Do not wear any kind of after shave or deodorant, stay up wind, and you can get pretty close, when they are rutting, they don't care much about what goes on around them, don't get too close because they can get very worked up, and you cannot out run them. Hope you have a fantastic time, and try to keep calm.....which is hard when you are that close, you can hear your heart beat like a drum. If you have a silent mode on your camera use it.... |
Thanks Deve
I am not sure how much will be done on foot or how close we will get. We will be picked up in a Land Rover driven by a local expert. I just want to give myself a better chance of getting a decent photo of the deer. The prices of the variable lenses goes up quite a bit. I am really looking forward to it. Thank you for the great tips. I may have to look in the loft for my camouflaged jacket too.
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10/15/2014 06:33:59 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Kroburg:
300mm on a APS-C is 450mm in real, quite good for deerhunting I guess. And with f/4 you should be able to get good shutter speeds. The lens is relatively light and with fast shutter speed handheld should be possible. Only small disadvantage might be the fixed focus length, will depend on how close you can come. If possible you should have a second camera with your 85mm at hand.
I myself use a 150-500mm and that one is much heavier, but when shooting wildlife I have to work handheld as well as deer normally don't wait until I got my tripod and camera ready (I think I should have a single-leg tripod for these occasions). And to be honest, when shooting wildlife I use it on max focus most of the time, therefore I think your 300mm fixed focus length will do.
Have a lot of fun Paul. and good shooting! |
Thanks Kees
There are variable focal length lenses available for the same price more or less but I had thought the prime may have given me better results and may be lighter
e.g
Canon EF 300mm f/4 L IS USM: £52.00 for 3 days
Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM: £55.00 for 3 days
Perhaps I will grab a monopod from Amazon just in case it comes in handy - I have always meant to get one of these and my camera bag has an attachment for one.
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10/15/2014 06:39:18 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
A 400mm lens will produce better results. The apparent magnification from a cropped sensor, APS-C sensor, may lead you to feel you will be okay with less focal length. Someone along the line will tell you that 300mm x 1.6 conversion factor = 480mm (35mm equivalent). It is true from a reduced field of view standpoint. However, all lenses of the same focal length give images of the same size at any given subject distance. The cropped sensor captures a more cropped image.
Of course, if you are very close to the deer herd, the 300mm lens may provide just the right apparent magnification to compose the scene. If you are distant from the herd, you will always long for more lens reach. This fact causes some wildlife photographers to try to "sneak" up on their subjects. This usually results in a lot of images of tails heading north.
Your camera's 7 fps is good. Recommend trying some shot bursts to encompass good poses or behavior. Although, my best wildife shots are almost always from a single, patient, calm, composed shutter release. I always use a tripod. I always use a shutter release cable. It depends on your available light. If you are using the 300mm on a 70D, the rule of thumb would be 1/500s or faster to attain satisfactory results in a "handheld" mode. You always have the option of increasing the ISO speed to achieve a faster shutter speed. Even with modern cameras, the electronic noise will increase with increased ISO. But, your starting point might be ISO 400 and you'll be fine. If you need to bump up ISO, you should be okay up to about ISO 3200 with the noise tradeoff.
Your camera has a 19 point AF system. For wildlife shots, you will want to use one point or maybe a small cluster of center points. Lock in focus (press shutter release button down half way) on the eye or face or antlers you want to be most sharp. Most of the time you will want to have your aperture wide open. I'd be shooting in aperture mode. You may want to stop down slightly to increase the DOF. But, in general, a wide open aperture will give you the best bokeh and allow the most light to fall on the sensor,
You have 95% of your sensor coverage through your viewfinder. Just something to keep in mind. The images captured will be slightly less tightly cropped than what you saw through your viewfinder. |
Thanks Richard
Unfortunately the 400mm primes are a lot more expensive:
Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS USM: £176.00 for 3 days
Canon EF 300mm f/4 L IS USM: £52.00 for 3 days
I suspect it is more than likely there will be some distance between me and the herd so I can understand why a greater reach would be preferable but would rather treat myself to a new lens than spend too much on hiring one though obviously can't treat myself to one of these expensive lenses.
That is really useful advice about the ISO settings. I am finally getting around to learning all this technical side of things and saying goodbye to automatic modes so this will be good learning practice.
With regards the focussing, I am still getting to grips with the focusing system on the 70D so need to get this nailed before the weekend. Thank you for the tips on this element too.
Really appreciate the advice - thank you again!
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10/15/2014 07:21:16 AM · #9 |
| Canon 100-400mm or Tamron 150-600mm if you can find it. There isn't a huge difference in image quality between the 300 prime and the 100-400, and you'll appreciate the extra reach and zoom flexibility. |
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10/15/2014 07:25:41 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Canon 100-400mm or Tamron 150-600mm if you can find it. There isn't a huge difference in image quality between the 300 prime and the 100-400, and you'll appreciate the extra reach and zoom flexibility. |
Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM: £55.00 for 3 days
Canon EF 200-400mm f/4 L IS USM Extender 1.4x: £327.00 for 3 days
The more expensive one is out of my budget - I could probably buy a deer for that much.
I was concerned about the following statement about the cheaper one:
The zoom action is a push-pull movement, rather than twisting the zoom ring, which may take a little while to get used to if you've not encountered it before, but it's worth persevering.
Anything to be worried about? |
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10/15/2014 07:53:18 AM · #11 |
That 100-400mm might be handy, but you'll have f/5.6 on the extended focus. It's not likely you are going to use the first 100-200mm of the lens (of course you can never know). So you have to choose between a fixed 300 mm with f/4 (and good quality when I can believe the reviews) or 100mm extended focus with f/5.6.
BTW you have to come to Scotland somewhere in early spring once, I know some places where you can see lots of deer and quite often very close :-) |
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10/15/2014 08:10:34 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by Kroburg:
That 100-400mm might be handy, but you'll have f/5.6 on the extended focus. It's not likely you are going to use the first 100-200mm of the lens (of course you can never know). So you have to choose between a fixed 300 mm with f/4 (and good quality when I can believe the reviews) or 100mm extended focus with f/5.6.
BTW you have to come to Scotland somewhere in early spring once, I know some places where you can see lots of deer and quite often very close :-) |
Hmm it sounds like the 300mm may be a better bet then. I am not expecting to take ground breaking photos - just want to have something better than my 85mm for a bit more reach. I am not sure how long we get to take photos as the safari will be taking other people and may well take in various locations. I am certain I will have a great time whatever happens.
I have the whole day on Exmoor after the Safari so I will be sure to have a good play with whatever lens I hire.
Oh I so want to take a holiday in Scotland - especially the highlands. Your photos really show what an amazing part of the world it is up there.
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10/15/2014 08:15:45 AM · #13 |
The 300/4 IS is a spectacular lens with outstanding IQ. I think you'll be just fine with it!
If you're in low light, I would recommend a mono though. The IS does help plenty, but once shutter speed drops below a certain point, you're going to wish you had some support. |
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10/15/2014 08:27:34 AM · #14 |
Paul being in England.... it is red deer I presume you will be going for? If so they rutt for ages, you can hear the sound of the clashing antlers for 100 s of meters, real site to see, you can take your time with them when they rutt, a lot of pushing and shoving goes on, hard to meter properly because they move from light to shade all the time , unless you get them In the middle of the field, most times there are trees around. And they move in and out, please post your photos here, it will be fantastic. Safer to use programe mode till you get some good shots, then play with manual mode. If you can meter to a shade of grey near them somewhere, you will get some beautiful light and shade shots, they are called red deer, but they are more of a shade of brown,
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10/15/2014 08:42:00 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Deve:
Paul being in England.... it is red deer I presume you will be going for? If so they rutt for ages, you can hear the sound of the clashing antlers for 100 s of meters, real site to see, you can take your time with them when they rutt, a lot of pushing and shoving goes on, hard to meter properly because they move from light to shade all the time , unless you get them In the middle of the field, most times there are trees around. And they move in and out, please post your photos here, it will be fantastic. Safer to use programe mode till you get some good shots, then play with manual mode. If you can meter to a shade of grey near them somewhere, you will get some beautiful light and shade shots, they are called red deer, but they are more of a shade of brown, |
Deve, I disagree with you re program mode. I'm with Richard, go for aperture mode. Gives you easier control during shooting. |
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10/15/2014 08:49:10 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Deve:
Do not wear any kind of after shave or deodorant, stay up wind ... |
Don't you mean stay downwind from the deer? You want the wind blowing from them toward you, not the other way around ... |
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10/15/2014 09:30:44 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Kroburg:
Originally posted by Deve:
Paul being in England.... it is red deer I presume you will be going for? If so they rutt for ages, you can hear the sound of the clashing antlers for 100 s of meters, real site to see, you can take your time with them when they rutt, a lot of pushing and shoving goes on, hard to meter properly because they move from light to shade all the time , unless you get them In the middle of the field, most times there are trees around. And they move in and out, please post your photos here, it will be fantastic. Safer to use programe mode till you get some good shots, then play with manual mode. If you can meter to a shade of grey near them somewhere, you will get some beautiful light and shade shots, they are called red deer, but they are more of a shade of brown, |
Deve, I disagree with you re program mode. I'm with Richard, go for aperture mode. Gives you easier control during shooting. |
Yes, it's most important to be in Av (Aperture mode). You will be able to set the aperture to wide open to get best lighting and to achieve the optimal bokeh. It will allow you to relax, compose the shot and press the shutter release in a timely manner. Trust your camera! A good lens will snap to focus quickly and you're ready to shoot. For metering, it depends on the light. Evaluative metering is best for days of bright overcast… with a scene and subjects not in high contrast sunlight and dark shade. For the more difficult bright day with dark shadows, you may need to try center weighted metering to get the subject properly exposed. |
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10/15/2014 09:34:33 AM · #18 |
| i would get whatever fits onto a rifle. |
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10/15/2014 09:38:50 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by P-A-U-L:
b]The zoom action is a push-pull movement, rather than twisting the zoom ring, which may take a little while to get used to if you've not encountered it before, but it's worth persevering. [/b]
Anything to be worried about? |
No, not at all. More than likely you'll pull it out to 400mm and leave it there. A monopod is a must, though. |
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10/15/2014 09:45:19 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Deve:
Paul being in England.... it is red deer I presume you will be going for? If so they rutt for ages, you can hear the sound of the clashing antlers for 100 s of meters, real site to see, you can take your time with them when they rutt, a lot of pushing and shoving goes on, hard to meter properly because they move from light to shade all the time , unless you get them In the middle of the field, most times there are trees around. And they move in and out, please post your photos here, it will be fantastic. Safer to use programe mode till you get some good shots, then play with manual mode. If you can meter to a shade of grey near them somewhere, you will get some beautiful light and shade shots, they are called red deer, but they are more of a shade of brown, |
Yes I do believe it is red deer. I have been up to Exmoor on my own last year attempting to take photos but I was too scared to go too close for fear of being chased but from the distance I did venture they did not seem too bothered.
As you can see from these 2 photos I did not have enough reach to do any justice:
These deer were right in the middle of a vast open space however the safari guide says he knows where to find them where you can get a lot closer so fingers crossed.
I do tend to use AP mode most of the time but resort to Program mode when I am worried I may get things wrong or just take a few with each setting to cover my back:)
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10/15/2014 09:48:03 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by Kroburg:
Originally posted by Deve:
Paul being in England.... it is red deer I presume you will be going for? If so they rutt for ages, you can hear the sound of the clashing antlers for 100 s of meters, real site to see, you can take your time with them when they rutt, a lot of pushing and shoving goes on, hard to meter properly because they move from light to shade all the time , unless you get them In the middle of the field, most times there are trees around. And they move in and out, please post your photos here, it will be fantastic. Safer to use programe mode till you get some good shots, then play with manual mode. If you can meter to a shade of grey near them somewhere, you will get some beautiful light and shade shots, they are called red deer, but they are more of a shade of brown, |
Deve, I disagree with you re program mode. I'm with Richard, go for aperture mode. Gives you easier control during shooting. |
Yes, it's most important to be in Av (Aperture mode). You will be able to set the aperture to wide open to get best lighting and to achieve the optimal bokeh. It will allow you to relax, compose the shot and press the shutter release in a timely manner. Trust your camera! A good lens will snap to focus quickly and you're ready to shoot. For metering, it depends on the light. Evaluative metering is best for days of bright overcast… with a scene and subjects not in high contrast sunlight and dark shade. For the more difficult bright day with dark shadows, you may need to try center weighted metering to get the subject properly exposed. |
I am being collected at 6am on Exmoor so the light has a good chance of being favourable. |
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10/15/2014 09:49:32 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Mike:
i would get whatever fits onto a rifle. |
Lol, this is the UK - the most lethal weapon I will have is my tripod and the last thing I would like to harm is a deer. |
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10/15/2014 09:59:04 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by P-A-U-L:
last thing I would like to harm is a deer. |
but, they are so delicious... |
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10/15/2014 10:08:39 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by P-A-U-L:
last thing I would like to harm is a deer. |
but, they are so delicious... |
Ha well I have just had lamb kebabs for my lunch so guess I don't have a leg to stand on |
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10/15/2014 10:08:54 AM · #25 |
I would guess that by now you have your plan about what lens to rent. I use AP most of the time when doing that sort of wildlife too, so I can control depth of field and to help keep shutter speeds up.
If the lens has IS it will help a lot. The monopod suggestion is a very good one, especially if you are going to be standing with the heavy gear for any length of time while shooting.
Don't be afraid to crank the iso up if lighting is not bright enough to get reasonable shutter speed. A slightly grainy but sharp shot is much better than a shot with motion blur.
300mm will be good for a head shot if you are within about 30 ft of the animal.
It's easy to find deer here. I see them often on the way to and from work.
I can understand how it would be a big thing in the UK. I'm happy that they have reserved areas where the deer can live and people can go see them.
Wishing you much good luck with your adventure. |
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