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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Should I change all my kit (another thread).
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03/03/2014 11:15:44 AM · #1
My kit:

CANON EOS 7D
EFS 10-22
EF 24-105 L
EF 50mm 1.4
EF 100mm macro
EF 75-300 IS (the first and old one)

I like my kit but sometimes it bothers me because of the bulk (another hobby is also bicycling/ motorcycling) and because my 24-105 (all around) does not have spot on focus. I manage to fix part of it with the AF micro adjustment, but being a zoom lens I must decide which end will be with the right focus.

I would really love to have something small with all the features and no less IQ.

Thinking about OLYMPUS OMD-EM1 with the new "pancake" M.Zuiko ED 14-42mm F3.5-5.6 EZ
and M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm f4.8-6.7 II (and maybe the M.Zuiko 45mm f1.8)

Sometimes I think about the sony a7, so I will be sure about the upgrade on my system but it will add $$$ and I will not be able to have a "compact" setup, as with the OMD+14/42.

What do you think?


03/03/2014 11:44:07 AM · #2
I'll say the same thing here I've been singing for months now.

I bought the Fuji X100s, now everything else stays at home almost all of the time.

Best money I've spent on gear so far. IQ is stellar, but it's more just the experience of using it that draws me to the camera - hard to explain, but it just feels like the right tool for the job, unless I'm trying to do something very specific and special... (and even then, it's quite the specialist for high-speed flash sync)..
03/03/2014 11:53:38 AM · #3
Talk to the other DPC bikers: 21_F.gif melethia and 21.gif yo_spiff
03/03/2014 12:34:39 PM · #4
The x100s is a nice camera indeed, 21.gif Cory! But I don't know if I will get used to not have a zoom. I almost do not use my primes because I like to zoom during my compositions. I also like some telephoto shots.

And thanks for the tip 21_N.gif tanguera, but 21_F.gif Melethia and 21.gif Yo_Spiff are DSLR's users (7d and 50d), and I know what to expect when considering a bike ride with the 7d and two lenses... ;-)

I have a canon s100 also (with bad autofocus issues). And I know that extreme portability compromises IQ. I am just wondering if the OMD could be a good balance between IQ and portability (sufficient to sell all the canon gear).
03/03/2014 12:55:51 PM · #5
Originally posted by jotaga:

But I don't know if I will get used to not have a zoom. I almost do not use my primes because I like to zoom during my compositions. I also like some telephoto shots.



Well, if that's the case, then you'd HATE the X100s. :D

The single lens fixed prime thing is one of the pluses in my opinion - but you have a very different style apparently. :)

In this case, perhaps a Sony RX100 would be satisfactory - it's like an S95/S100 that actually gives really nice results.
03/03/2014 01:10:00 PM · #6
Why carry all that DSLR stuff around when Mirrorless cameras are now so good.

I have been considering the Sony A7r myself but they struggle on the wide end quite a bit.
03/03/2014 01:20:06 PM · #7
Originally posted by MAK:

Why carry all that DSLR stuff around when Mirrorless cameras are now so good.

I have been considering the Sony A7r myself but they struggle on the wide end quite a bit.

I think that will be solved when Sony comes out with wide lenses for it - and I'm pretty sure they will. The problem, as far as I understand, is with for example Leica M mount wides on adapter.

Then again - one fear would be that Sony struggle with wide glass on the A7r and that's why it's taking so long... I _almost_ pressed the "order" button on an A7r with the SOny/Zeiss 55 lens yesterday but changed my mind last second. I'll hold off for now.

31.gif jotaga I have the OMD-EM1 and I'm very happy with it. I will never go back to DSLR's - despite all the sales on them lately.
03/03/2014 02:50:39 PM · #8
31.gif jotaga, if I am heading out specifically to shoot, I carry the apparently now outdated DSLR with the 10-22 and the 24-105, depending, in a small backpack. If I'm going out to ride but want a camera other than my phone, I take the little Lumix, as it fits in a Bento box on my bike.

Sounds like I need new gear, though! :)

Message edited by author 2014-03-03 14:51:30.
03/03/2014 04:02:01 PM · #9
Originally posted by TrollMan:

Originally posted by MAK:

Why carry all that DSLR stuff around when Mirrorless cameras are now so good.

I have been considering the Sony A7r myself but they struggle on the wide end quite a bit.

I think that will be solved when Sony comes out with wide lenses for it - and I'm pretty sure they will. The problem, as far as I understand, is with for example Leica M mount wides on adapter.

Then again - one fear would be that Sony struggle with wide glass on the A7r and that's why it's taking so long... I _almost_ pressed the "order" button on an A7r with the SOny/Zeiss 55 lens yesterday but changed my mind last second. I'll hold off for now.

31.gif jotaga I have the OMD-EM1 and I'm very happy with it. I will never go back to DSLR's - despite all the sales on them lately.


Can't you just use a simple adapter on the A7r and go wide? Like 12-25 Sigma wide?
03/03/2014 04:42:43 PM · #10
I carry my RX100 on bike rides...great IQ and you can't ask to be carrying a smaller camera with better IQ on the bike. Zoom is 28-100 only though.

Another option is to get the RX-10! That's not that small, light, or cheap, but cheaper than a M43 camera and equivalent glass. And for around $1200 that you get 24-200 F2.8 Zeiss glass, a 1" sensor from the RX100 II, and only one thing to carry in your bike bag.

Another option, but IQ is not as good...the Panny FZ200...24-600mm F2.8 Leica zoom, around $400 now. However, it has a small sensor...the lens is wonderful, great at ISO 100-200, but nothing higher really.

But a nice option to go wide and have wildlife range, plus a viewfinder, for very little $. In case you take a tumble, you're not losing $$$ worth of equipment.

03/03/2014 06:25:23 PM · #11
I sold all my Canon gear and went totally m43 (previous kit 60d, 7d, 17-55 f2.8, 70-200 f4, 10-22, 60 macro, flashes)
Images are sharp and you will no longer have to micro adjust lenses.
I doubt you would regret the change.
I couldn't be happier and is so much lighter.

Message edited by author 2014-03-03 18:26:52.
03/03/2014 06:25:58 PM · #12
Originally posted by jotaga:


I have a canon s100 also (with bad autofocus issues). And I know that extreme portability compromises IQ. I am just wondering if the OMD could be a good balance between IQ and portability (sufficient to sell all the canon gear).


The Sony RX100 (or RX100 II) has IQ that competes with a number of DSLRs, and is roughly the same size as the S100. It's quite a bit more expensive, however.

Another miracle of miniaturization is the Panasonic GM1. It's actually smaller than a RX100.

Make sure you understand what you're giving up by giving up the DSLR, however. Not having an optical viewfinder isn't everyone's cup of tea, and mirrorless cameras tend to slow things down a bit (slower to turn on, zoom, focus, etc). You might just want a smaller DSLR body and some smaller, lighter lenses instead.
03/03/2014 06:29:43 PM · #13
Originally posted by Cory:



Can't you just use a simple adapter on the A7r and go wide? Like 12-25 Sigma wide?


You can, but there are apparently issues with image quality with very wide lenses and adapters. Something about light rays having to bend too far or something. I'm not interested in the camera enough to care about the details, but I've read a couple of reviews that said essentially the same thing.
03/03/2014 07:11:32 PM · #14
Originally posted by Ann:

[quote=jotaga

Make sure you understand what you're giving up by giving up the DSLR, however. Not having an optical viewfinder isn't everyone's cup of tea, and mirrorless cameras tend to slow things down a bit (slower to turn on, zoom, focus, etc). You might just want a smaller DSLR body and some smaller, lighter lenses instead.


Viewfinder is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) so you are viewing the actual exposure. Maybe a tad slower to turn on but by the time you have it to your eye its on so don't really see this as a problem and you get to set up how long before it goes to sleep etc. Then just a tap on the shutter release and you are good to go.

I don't see how zoom can be slower as this is just the twist of a lens, same as any other camera and focus is blazingly fast on an em5 or em1 and is much much sharper than my canon 7d ever was. I have shot surfers with the canon 7d and 70-200 lens and even though the m43 cameras a not supposed to be good for action, the surf images I have shot with it have been better than the 7d.

Focus points - Canon 7d has 19. Olympus EM1 has 81. If you want to use the screen you can set it to tap and shoot. Arrange your composition, touch the screen where you want focus and BANG images is taken. Here are some recent action images shot on the weekend of wake boarding. My flickr site. You will be able to notice in these few shots the ones I shot in RAW and the ones in JPG (jpg setting was vivid and extra contrast). RAW is more natural. These were shot with the Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 lens on and EM1 using continuous focus. I have not sharpened these image (not even the RAW ones) and hey have been cropped. I find I rarely sharpen much anymore compared to when I had Canon gear.

Go check out the m43 forum m43

Message edited by author 2014-03-03 19:12:07.
03/03/2014 07:46:15 PM · #15
Originally posted by RamblinR:

Originally posted by Ann:

[quote=jotaga

Make sure you understand what you're giving up by giving up the DSLR, however. Not having an optical viewfinder isn't everyone's cup of tea, and mirrorless cameras tend to slow things down a bit (slower to turn on, zoom, focus, etc). You might just want a smaller DSLR body and some smaller, lighter lenses instead.


Viewfinder is WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) so you are viewing the actual exposure. Maybe a tad slower to turn on but by the time you have it to your eye its on so don't really see this as a problem and you get to set up how long before it goes to sleep etc. Then just a tap on the shutter release and you are good to go.

I don't see how zoom can be slower as this is just the twist of a lens, same as any other camera and focus is blazingly fast on an em5 or em1 and is much much sharper than my canon 7d ever was. I have shot surfers with the canon 7d and 70-200 lens and even though the m43 cameras a not supposed to be good for action, the surf images I have shot with it have been better than the 7d.

Focus points - Canon 7d has 19. Olympus EM1 has 81. If you want to use the screen you can set it to tap and shoot. Arrange your composition, touch the screen where you want focus and BANG images is taken. Here are some recent action images shot on the weekend of wake boarding. My flickr site. You will be able to notice in these few shots the ones I shot in RAW and the ones in JPG (jpg setting was vivid and extra contrast). RAW is more natural. These were shot with the Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 lens on and EM1 using continuous focus. I have not sharpened these image (not even the RAW ones) and hey have been cropped. I find I rarely sharpen much anymore compared to when I had Canon gear.

Go check out the m43 forum m43


Thanks for the info 21_F.gif RamblinR! That's the testimony I wanted to read to go toward the m43! Looking all the reviews and tests on the net were tempting me, but I needed some real world words :-)

Will sell my gear until June (when I'll go to NY) and hopefully will have some shopping time there!

Let's see if some new gear appear to confuse my mind until then. =P

Message edited by author 2014-03-03 19:47:50.
03/03/2014 08:27:07 PM · #16
Another good site to collection information from questions asked by others etc.

Flickr em1, em5 & em10
03/03/2014 08:37:57 PM · #17
If you like a constant zoom the 12-40 oly is amazing. Sharp from f2.8 which is equivalent to the canon f4 on the 24-105 but its a bit shorter (105 vs 80)

Difference in size and weight - see here Camerasize.com

7d + 24-105 = 1.530 grams
EM1 + 12-40 = 879 grams

That's nearly half the weight and size is much reduced and the image from the 12-40 at f2.8 lens is much sharper than the 24-105 is at f4
(had one for a while and it may have been my copy but it was only sharp in the centre and hopeless anywhere else so I sold it)

Run your mouse over the image to see the specs. Play around and change the lenses to compare what you have to other lenses and even change bodies (GH3, G6, EM5, EM10)

Cheers

Message edited by author 2014-03-03 20:42:14.
03/03/2014 08:42:36 PM · #18
if you aren't shooting portraits the rx100 is amazing, I was using it for landscape the other day and its crazy how detailed that sensor pics up, and at f1.8 on the wide end and clean images to about ISO1600 its really good as low light candid machine.
03/03/2014 09:29:06 PM · #19
Originally posted by RamblinR:

If you like a constant zoom the 12-40 oly is amazing. Sharp from f2.8 which is equivalent to the canon f4 on the 24-105 but its a bit shorter (105 vs 80)


Does the f-stops double as the focal lengths? So a 5.6 lens would be f8??

Edit: made a research and found the equivalences regarding DOF. So the f2.8 on m43 has the same DOF as a f5.6 on full frame.

Ok. But I have another question. Are those equivalences valid for luminosity (speed) also? Does the m43 lenses have half the light into the sensor when compared to a FF at any given aperture?

Re-edit: just found that "in terms of exposure, the focal ratio is independent of the sensor, so an f1.4 lens on a Micro Four Thirds body would deliver the same exposures as an f1.4 lens on any other format."

That's a relief. I was starting to rethink about the system, but a little more DOF is not that bad... The exposure compromises would... But this is not an issue as the internet says...

Message edited by author 2014-03-03 22:21:57.
03/04/2014 12:29:12 AM · #20
f2.8 is f2.8 for light gathering on any camera but the crop of the camera means a different distance to subject therefore DOF is affected due to distance required to frame the same shot.
This was the same for the Canon 7d which you have currently been using which is a crop of 1.6 - m43 has a crop of 2. Coming from a crop you will not notice this as much but from a FF it would be more obvious.
All lenses are marked as mm as if for any camera and do not take into account the crop of the camera so the following exercise may help.

Full Frame: 25mm f1.4 - head shot --- Lets make the same image with a crop and a m43

Crop Sensor 25mm f1.4 - head shot --- You have now had to walk back a few paces to frame the same image. Light gathering will be the same but DOF will now be deeper - DOF now equivalent to about f2

m43 25mm f1.4 - head shot --- You have had to walk back further again to frame the same image. Light gathering is still f1.4 but DOF is now equivalent to about f2.8.

If you shoot low light images and want a little more DOF whilst keeping the ISO lower then m43 works better here.
If you want ultra shallow DOF then you should be shooting FF

I can shoot m43 lenses wide open as they are sharp from the get go.

If you wanted to purchases lenses to match equivalent focal lengths then the following applies.

FF 50mm -- CROP 35mm -- m43 25mm
FF 85mm -- CROP 50mm -- m43 45mm

Hope that helps.

Message edited by author 2014-03-04 02:33:17.
03/04/2014 04:03:20 AM · #21
Thanks Maria!
03/04/2014 05:10:30 AM · #22
So far as for use with bicycling/mx, to me a prime consideration is size and cost. The reason cost is in there is there is a decent chance of heavy damage. I use my LX5 unless my intent is specific shots, where I'll use a my dslr. The Sony mentioned does have better IQ than the current lx7, but it's also much more expensive, so consider how "in harms way" your gear will be. Bummer with the sony is the bs nonstandard hotshoe.
03/04/2014 08:56:33 AM · #23
I love my E-M1. I use it with the 12-40mm M.Zuiko and the 60mm M.Zuiko lenses. Both are sharp and the AF is amazingly fast and accurate. The other lens I use a lot is a Zuiko Digital 70-300mm, which is not as fast with AF, but it is really sharp.
Olympus is making amazing prime lenses, and there are a lot of other options as well in M43. I'm sure you won't regret it.
03/04/2014 09:53:20 AM · #24
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

. Bummer with the sony is the bs nonstandard hotshoe.


+1
03/04/2014 11:58:22 PM · #25
Originally posted by tanguera:

Talk to the other DPC bikers: 21_F.gif melethia and 21.gif yo_spiff


Cyclists J!

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