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DPChallenge Forums >> The DPL >> DPL - Just throwing this out there.
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09/21/2012 03:39:20 PM · #1
Reading through the forums on the DPL, it looked like a lot of fun. I never participated since I wasn't a member then, but every time a new thread or a rehashed old one appears on this topic, it dies a slow and bitter death.

So here's my suggestion, I'll set the entire thing up as far as logistics, to the extent that I can. I don't have access to the underlying code base for the site, so making separate threads for teams or restricting access for voting on teammates photos is out of my control. These are minor issues that can be worked around. A couple votes here and there from teammates will be inconsequential. There's the mailbox system already in place here.

MY PROPOSAL
Teams
Depending on the number of people interested and the length of the season would dictate the number of people on each team.

My initial thought would be to form teams consisting of members of varying skills. Here's what I would do, line everyone up according to their average.
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - .... - N
Now if teams consisted of say four people each, the team would be 1, (N/2)-1, (N/2)+1, N. Team 2 would be 2, (N/2)-2, (N/2)+2, N-1. And so on.
I could do something similar for any number of members on any team. Or we could simply choose teams and let a super group form which wouldn't be much fun for anybody except that team. At least here you might be forced to work with people you otherwise wouldn't.

This can be talked about in the forums, but I love throwing random people together and seeing what comes out.

Rounds
Just like before, every week it would be one team vs another. I would track the win-loss throughout the season and place rankings after every round. Hopefully with a shorter season it would be like the NFL where anything can happen all the time. Teams with similar records would be decided on their differential vs other teams. This could be changed, I'll think about it some more, but I want incentive to always do your best.

You'd have to do battle against every team at least once.

Scores
The score after each challenge would be the average of the members of the team. Obviously if a person skips, then the averages could be thrown around all over the place. I would set up a handicap system so that if member x skipped a challenge, the teams overall score would be handicapped in relation to where that member stood on the team at the beginning of the season.

Teammates skipping a challenge
This shouldn't matter in the short term, but if it were to happen consistently for on a particular team, the other members might feel let down. I would have to think of a way to have free agents or consolidate teams mid season which ensures fairness and wouldn't f*ck up my ranking system as I currently envision it.

Feedback
Would people be interested if I were to put in the effort for the above?
Was it only one challenge per week that counted, two, or all of them?
I see that Langdon did percentiles for his tracking. You can do averages within challenges, and it's still fair. I would just have to keep track of more numbers. That's easy to do.
I'm open to any suggestions in relation to anything.


Message edited by author 2012-09-21 15:58:27.
09/21/2012 03:42:10 PM · #2
I kind of typed the above in haste, there's obviously more logistics to work out. I'll fill in detail as I think about potential problems along with their respective solutions.

If this gets traction, I'll start another thread for participants.

Message edited by author 2012-09-21 15:43:55.
09/21/2012 03:56:48 PM · #3
What's DPL?
09/21/2012 04:00:08 PM · #4
Originally posted by JamesDowning:

What's DPL?

DPL. Another link.
Essentially a team based format for the challenges that currently happen. There was more logistics in the past by the looks of it, but that's because the Langdon was in charge. I would need to skip all that.

Message edited by author 2012-09-21 16:03:19.
09/21/2012 04:06:56 PM · #5
Interesting... interesting...
09/21/2012 04:19:58 PM · #6
We did the WPL last year because we couldn't do DPL...

There are a ton of threads out there from the WPL but here is one..

WPL
09/21/2012 04:25:57 PM · #7
You should talk to SDW: he's got the whole thing all organized and established as far as format, scoring, all that, a lot to build on, but I don't think he's available to run it again right now. He might be interested in turning the reins over to you...
09/21/2012 04:26:55 PM · #8
In doing searches, I restricted it to the DPL, so I completely missed much of the WPL discussions. I'll do some reading later tonight.

Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes on this issue.
09/21/2012 04:32:25 PM · #9
Where do I sign up?

I loved loved loooved the team based competitiveness!!!

Don't rush it though, make sure everything is perfect before starting it! Scott did a wonderful job doing WPL. You've got a lot to live up to! ;)
09/21/2012 04:34:19 PM · #10
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:

Don't rush it though, make sure everything is perfect before starting it! Scott did a wonderful job doing WPL. You've got a lot to live up to! ;)

Just about to leave work, but I'll send him a message later tonight, work out details, and hopefully have a complete system hashed out within the next week. I just didn't want to put any real effort in this if there wasn't going to be the participants to make it worthwhile.

I can't figure out where names go when you sign up here. Insight would be welcome if people knew.

Message edited by author 2012-09-21 16:38:06.
09/21/2012 04:37:16 PM · #11
Originally posted by Venser:

...
Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes on this issue.


LOL... Venser bro, this is about the funniest thing you've ever said. Why?

Because not only are you usually a member of Potstirrers Inc, but this is the most pleasant WPL/DPL thread I've seen in ages.
09/21/2012 04:55:25 PM · #12
In reading some of the original DPL stuff, I see the biggest downfall being the strict limitations regarding the exact number of potential teams.

You should be able to accept any and all teams that develop prior to kickoff.

I just need to find some friends to band with.

Message edited by author 2012-09-21 17:02:08.
09/21/2012 05:01:43 PM · #13
im in.
09/21/2012 05:41:11 PM · #14
I do like the idea of random teams based on some form of ranking, rather than a self selection process. It would keep playing field more level, and encourage the participants to form new bonds within the community rather than reinforcing existing bonds.

Message edited by author 2012-09-21 17:42:20.
09/21/2012 06:11:49 PM · #15
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I do like the idea of random teams based on some form of ranking, rather than a self selection process. It would keep playing field more level, and encourage the participants to form new bonds within the community rather than reinforcing existing bonds.


Absolutely agree.
09/21/2012 06:38:25 PM · #16
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I do like the idea of random teams based on some form of ranking, rather than a self selection process. It would keep playing field more level, and encourage the participants to form new bonds within the community rather than reinforcing existing bonds.


I just don't think it would be the same without Janine... Lol.
09/21/2012 06:46:47 PM · #17
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

I do like the idea of random teams based on some form of ranking, rather than a self selection process. It would keep playing field more level, and encourage the participants to form new bonds within the community rather than reinforcing existing bonds.


This is very interesting. In the last WPL I didn't know any of my teammates and now we are very good friends even after one whole year... now I can't imagine to join a team competition without all of them :)
09/21/2012 06:57:04 PM · #18
I would love to do this, been so long since dpl2. As far as ranking teams, not a bad idea but it won't make a difference to me. I like competing against the best, makes you stronger.
09/21/2012 08:06:45 PM · #19
Originally posted by BreannanOB:

I do like the idea of random teams based on some form of ranking, rather than a self selection process. It would keep playing field more level, and encourage the participants to form new bonds within the community rather than reinforcing existing bonds.
This was my thinking.

Scoring:
Here's my new thought. Instead of using averages or percentiles, simply make it your rank in a given challenge. So in a given week there are three challenges, take your best placing and that's your score for the week. So if there's 4 teammates, the week end score would be each members best placing throughout the week divided by the number of teammates, in this case four. This greatly benefits members who enter challenges with fewer entries.

Thoughts?
09/21/2012 09:20:39 PM · #20
it's such of fun event and it would probably get more people motivated to enter.
09/22/2012 12:53:48 AM · #21
Originally posted by Venser:

Scoring:Thoughts?


Last time through the biggest issue for many teams was getting everyone on the team to get a shot in once a week. We had a few folks just burn out, have a family crisis, or in one case have a volcano cut off the road he needed to use. Stuff happens; sometimes very weird stuff.

It would be nice if there was a way that if a team lost a member for the week, or for the rest of the league, the rest of the team could soldier on without taking a doughnut.

As far as taking the placing instead of the average vote as score, it would even out the highest and lowest scores in a challenge and increase the differences in the middle (a 0.25 score separated 1st and 2nd place in the last challenge; a 0.25 score also separated the 24th to the 30th) so minor score differentiations in the middle are expressed as big shifts in placement. Secondarily the math might get tricky since 45th out of 95 entries is a very different score than 45th out of 45 entries. Why not just stay with using the average score?
09/22/2012 01:26:56 AM · #22
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

It would be nice if there was a way that if a team lost a member for the week, or for the rest of the league, the rest of the team could soldier on without taking a doughnut.

Thinking about the best course of action to deal with this. In a given week there are three challenges, so hopefully they can enter something, even an all black rectangle at worst.

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

As far as taking the placing instead of the average vote as score, it would even out the highest and lowest scores in a challenge and increase the differences in the middle (a 0.25 score separated 1st and 2nd place in the last challenge; a 0.25 score also separated the 24th to the 30th) so minor score differentiations in the middle are expressed as big shifts in placement. Secondarily the math might get tricky since 45th out of 95 entries is a very different score than 45th out of 45 entries. Why not just stay with using the average score?

It would have to be percentiles if that were the case. It's the only way to compare across challenges. I was thinking to reward people who enter the random obscure challenges without many entries. Than Langdon could thank me for increasing participation is the lesser entered challenges.

Nothing is set, just throwing random ideas out there and the one which I can prove makes the most sense is the one I'm obviously going to go with.
09/22/2012 04:39:01 AM · #23
It might even get me involved again...
09/22/2012 04:56:35 AM · #24
Jumps up and down hand in the air in that kind of need a wee dance but I'm in :)
09/22/2012 05:14:43 AM · #25
I respect very much your effort Venser but I think that the way SDW had set the whole stuff was perfect. We only need 1 or 2 more users per team and some teams more to allow more guys to join the competition. My two cents...

I built a great friendship with my teammates and we've been waiting for almost one year the beginning of the new competition to be a team again.
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