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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> don't cheat. it's not worth it.
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 08/23/2012 11:53:59 PM · #1
sooner or later, you will get caught and it will cost you, big time...

08/24/2012 12:15:24 AM · #2
Originally posted by Skip:
sooner or later, you will get caught and it will cost you, big time...


Yep, cheaters never prosper~~
 08/24/2012 12:20:05 AM · #3
Damn, that's truly sad to read. The use of performance enhancing drugs are so rampant in the world of sports it's terrible.
 08/24/2012 12:27:49 AM · #4
Although I'm dead set against the use of performance enhancing drugs in sports, I find it stupid that they would take away his seven victories in the TDF, I mean has it ever and will it ever be won without them. In the years that he won, we can be absolutely sure that the top ten were all taking them, who gets the yellow ?


Message edited by author 2012-08-24 00:28:56.
 08/24/2012 12:29:40 AM · #5
The other side
08/24/2012 12:37:10 AM · #6
Originally posted by jagar:
Although I'm dead set against the use of performance enhancing drugs in sports, I find it stupid that they would take away his seven victories in the TDF, I mean has it ever and will it ever be won without them. In the years that he won, we can be absolutely sure that the top ten were all taking them, who gets the yellow ?


Travis Tygart? Floyd Landis?
08/24/2012 12:46:12 AM · #7
So, if they award those titles to the first guy not doping, how far do they have to go?
 08/24/2012 12:52:57 AM · #8
It's just taken as fact over here that they use the stuff. Jeannie Longo the 51 year old French female cyclist and national hero was disgraced earlier this year when they found loads of the stuff in her home, apparantly it was her husband who was a big fish in the industry. We would have to be pretty naive not think they all don't do it.
 08/24/2012 12:53:29 AM · #9
I don't think there will be any change in the Tour standings. I'm not certain, but I believe the UCI will appeal the USADA witch hunt to CAS, and it will be over turned. I don't think that would have happened if he agreed to arbitrate. UCI now must defend their worth as part of USADA's claim was a UCI led coverup. Also, UCI stated USADA did not have jurisdiction, so I will be surprised if they officially strip the titles.

08/24/2012 12:54:57 AM · #10
John, yep. Particularly prior to 2007.
 08/24/2012 03:07:02 AM · #11
RE: don't cheat. it's not worth it.

I would disagree that this is the moral of the story here. He could be stripped of all his titles as far back as they want to go, but if he won because he was doping, then it is likely he would not have if he did not and he has enjoyed many years worth of rewards - financial and otherwise - that he will not be giving up.

All that said, I don't follow cycling and I have only skimmed over various articles on both sides of the story and I find it very difficult to take any sporting event monitoring seriously when they can go back 2, 5, 10 or more years and say someone was doping. My take is that if they don't catch it before the prize is awarded, you win! They should keep the efforts limited to preventing a doper from entering in the first place. Do we not have the technology to do that?? Have we not put a man on Mars??? ...oh, well ok, but still we should be able to detect drugs in athletes. :)
 08/24/2012 03:19:50 AM · #12
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Do we not have the technology to do that?? Have we not put a man on Mars??? ...oh, well ok, but still we should be able to detect drugs in athletes. :)


The problem is that many of the ways that have been used to cheat are coming about so fast that the tests to detect them don't exist at that point in time, so you get a test beating method of cheating for awhile before it's listed as a banned substance.
There are plenty of difficulties with having an approach like this, namely that the way that substances are viewed changes over time, but in the end, I just find it depressing that the scene is so rife with abuse.
 08/24/2012 03:34:03 AM · #13
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
RE: don't cheat. it's not worth it.

I would disagree that this is the moral of the story here. He could be stripped of all his titles as far back as they want to go, but if he won because he was doping, then it is likely he would not have if he did not and he has enjoyed many years worth of rewards - financial and otherwise - that he will not be giving up.

All that said, I don't follow cycling and I have only skimmed over various articles on both sides of the story and I find it very difficult to take any sporting event monitoring seriously when they can go back 2, 5, 10 or more years and say someone was doping. My take is that if they don't catch it before the prize is awarded, you win! They should keep the efforts limited to preventing a doper from entering in the first place. Do we not have the technology to do that?? Have we not put a man on Mars??? ...oh, well ok, but still we should be able to detect drugs in athletes. :)


I agree more effort still needs to be done instead of digging in the past. Let's face it all of lance's competitors were using it so they were all fair races. They explain the problem here on the news by saying it's so rife, everybody knows the majority take it so if you want a chance of ever becoming great you have to take it yourself, they all know this by the time they're eighteen and they make the decision. I've always found the whole scenario ridiculous and it's made my perception of the sport as a whole very negative, after all they do decide to cheat, end of story.
 08/24/2012 03:39:19 AM · #14
Preemptive confession time: I freely admit I was on drugs when I did this. Or maybe I was just drunk. ...or both. Anyway, it's not like it wasn't obvious. :P

I am not much of a sports fan of any kind, but these drug witch-hunts in all sports are aggravating - particularly when our gov't gets involved.
 08/24/2012 03:55:10 AM · #15
Armstrongs competitors were on drugs? Yet they were caught, Armstrong himself is the most tested rider in the history if cycling yet the only positive result that can be levied against him is in retrospect and when testing procedures were not followed.
So just because drugs was rampant in the sport it means all riders are doping? Armstrongs competitors would have had access to the same technology to avoid doping tests yet they were caught and Armstrong wasn't.

Armstrong makes a very good argument which rings true to me, why would he use doping methods that could potentially harm him and potentially cause the return of the cancer that very nearly killed him.

Seems like Floyd Landis whining so publicly started an investigation by an agency that forgot the rules.
 08/24/2012 04:10:52 AM · #16
Jon, jeanine longo the most titled female cyclist in history with 13 world titles, 51 french titles, she was in 7 Olympic games, she never got tested positive once and she and her husband were running a business in the stuff from home, without exception they all took it, maybe not now but when Lance was active yes.
 08/24/2012 04:43:27 AM · #17
I agree that cycling up until a few years ago was riddled with doping scandals but the Cancer argument carries weight as to why he never tested positive.
If Armstrong was the ringleader for doping on US Postal etc wouldn't there have been ex team mates who pointed the finger sooner, it was only after Landis got caught he decided to deflect attention from himself and point fingers.
The French authorities went after Armstrong as soon as he won his first tour but again turned up nothing, pretty much everyone went after him at some point but it comes down to one word against the other.
08/24/2012 05:33:57 AM · #18
Originally posted by chazoe:
So, if they award those titles to the first guy not doping, how far do they have to go?


Looks like I have some awards coming my way.

08/24/2012 06:20:31 AM · #19
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


All that said, I don't follow cycling and I have only skimmed over various articles on both sides of the story and I find it very difficult to take any sporting event monitoring seriously when they can go back 2, 5, 10 or more years and say someone was doping. My take is that if they don't catch it before the prize is awarded, you win! They should keep the efforts limited to preventing a doper from entering in the first place. Do we not have the technology to do that?? Have we not put a man on Mars??? ...oh, well ok, but still we should be able to detect drugs in athletes. :)


the big problem with cheating is that it ruins the sport not for the fans but for anyone else playing it.

remember back when Maquire and Sosa were chasing the HR record in baseball and how much fun that was? Then Bonds comes along and just blows that record away? yes all three cheated. MLB never pulled those records and now no one, without cheating, will ever be able to break that record. Think about that, in order for anyone to break a record they need to cheat. The fans will always have fun watching the cheaters, but keeping the records, i believe, encourages cheating.

they have to wipe the records from the books.
08/24/2012 07:26:46 AM · #20
But in this set of circumstances he (Armstrong) has not been caught he has just had enough of the process by an agency that has no jurisdiction.
08/24/2012 07:44:37 AM · #21
Maybe he says he's had enough because he knows if it goes any further the truth will come out, this is his ambiguous way out, he keeps a bit of credibility and doubt still prevails. It is a shame though, that it came to this.
 08/24/2012 07:56:30 AM · #22
The way I see it, true fans of the sport don't give a shit and people that don't care will just add this to the list of reasons why they don't care.

edit - Merckx tested positive three times, Anquetil admitted on TV he did them, Miguel Indurain been positive once. All of them still considered legends of the sport. Real fans don't care.

Message edited by author 2012-08-24 08:02:02.
 08/24/2012 08:13:10 AM · #23
Originally posted by Venser:
The way I see it, true fans of the sport don't give a shit and people that don't care will just add this to the list of reasons why they don't care.

edit - Merckx tested positive three times, Anquetil admitted on TV he did them, Miguel Indurain been positive once. All of them still considered legends of the sport. Real fans don't care.


i think real fans do care, we just admire the honesty when we see it.
 08/24/2012 08:35:40 AM · #24
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I would disagree that this is the moral of the story here. He could be stripped of all his titles as far back as they want to go, but if he won because he was doping, then it is likely he would not have if he did not and he has enjoyed many years worth of rewards - financial and otherwise - that he will not be giving up.


For me, this is the saddest truth. He's a multi-millionaire that has been met with nothing but success at everything he's done because he chose to cheat. Why would any young up-and-coming do anything different? There's no way to reverse what's happening in sports.
 08/24/2012 09:04:45 AM · #25
Originally posted by hopper:
There's no way to reverse what's happening in sports.


sure there is.

if a player is found to be cheating, strip any records broken awards won, remove any stats acquired, suspend player and void contract.

Message edited by author 2012-08-24 09:04:52.
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